David Icke on the Russell Brand show

[longdog]

So you made it up and have absolutely no proof and no credible sources to back up your 'black magic' claim?

What's next? "Fairies are definitely real because I saw something about it in Google although I can't remember where or who said it"?

Way to go, Sherlock!

It's the false logic that goes "Something must have happened*, this is something therefore it must have happened"

*arguable to say the least.

 

[Meltingpot]

But why shouldn't people laugh at them? Some of it is really funny
Lets go through some of the things Icke has said

He has said that he is the son of god
He has said that a reptilian conspiracy controls the world including the Rothschilds (big alarm bell) and the royal family
He has said that Diana was murdered because she discovered that Charles and Camilla ritually sacrificed their own child (another alarm bell, especially combined with the Rothschilds thing)
He says that a network of secret societies control the world, something which he only has his own word for and a handful of nutters and which goes against everything we know about globalisation, international political economy, etc
He has said that a small cabal of "Jewish and non-Jewish" wealthy people financed World War 2 and Hitler ... Jews+non-jews = everyone, so why did he even feel the need to mention it?
He claims that the Protocols were written by a secret society - which is beginning to sound like a plot of the da vinci code, not something which could plausibly be true

Why shouldn't we laugh at this shite? I don't think the price of ignoring it will be very great and the price of listening to it may be greater. Do you really think Charles and Camilla sacrificing their child and Diana finding out and being murdered is likely?

I never said conspiracies don't exist ... of course they do but we don't need to listen to Icke to see that

Just to take your first one (and maybe the lizards as well). I saw an extract from the Wogan interview where he mentioned the climatic catastrophes that were to befall us. He didn't actually say he was the Son of God, as I recall, but he didn't deny it either; it was a bit muffled.

But onto the main course. Not long after he first started giving talks following the "Son of God" episode, he was at a university and students who had turned up to the meeting started laughing at him and jeering at his points. He stopped and said to them;

"How many of you here think I'm mentally ill?"

A lot of hands went up, along with more jeers.

"Right. So you've paid money to come and jeer at someone you think is mentally ill. What does that say about you?"

That shut them up. Something to think about.

 

[Meltingpot]

I agree, I think when he started doing it he did believe it and yes I still think he had balls, at least in the beginning but since his whole lizard/son of god shite no one takes him seriously. I still think he believes some of it but not as much as he did in the beginning, but the real reason he keeps doing it, IMO, is not cause he makes a shit load of money, I don't think he does, it's because his credibility got so ruined that no one will take him seriously in anything else and this is the only thing he can do for his bread n butter.

I find this point of view oddly compelling. You (and Structaural) are saying that to start with he did believe in conspiracies, the lizards etc., and then at some point he came to his senses and realised it was all a load of hogwash - but either he continued with it anyway for the craic and the attention, or he was in too deep to back down now, and hey the money was rolling in anyway?

I don't know what to make of that one, but thanks to you both for the suggestion.

One thing no one's mentioned about him yet is that he has used ayahuasca, which he calls the "teacher plant," and indeed he has been organising ayahuasca workshops in South America (Brazil I think). I wonder how much that would explain about him.

 

[editor]

"Right. So you've paid money to come and jeer at someone you think is mentally ill. What does that say about you?"

That shut them up. Something to think about.

He should have been grateful that people bothered to show up to put money in his pocket.

 

[smokedout]

That's a fair point actually. I was responding to Structaural's claim that he's a charlatan, i.e. saying stuff he doesn't believe in in order to "coin it in" and rake in the cash.

And as for what else is he to do, he could sell his expertise in the media in a host of other ways. For example, as an ex-Green Party leader with experience in both TV and radio and a high media profile, he could make documentaries on environmental themes such as global warming which would have a very large audience - like Al Gore did. Or, he could lend his name to the letterhead of green companies as a non-executive director, and earn money that way.

in fairness his early book 'It Doesn;t Have to be This Way' was considered a bit of an environmental classic at the time

dont think it made him much cash though

he's no madder than someone who thinks a bloke with a beard created the universe in 7 days and for anyone to suggest he is shows a real ignorance of mental health problems

personally i think more and more these days he's got his tongue firmly in his cheek, he may have believed it at first but these days i agree that hes found a niche which brings a degree of fame and a lot of cash and hes sticking with it

 

[Meltingpot]

in fairness his early book 'It Doesn;t Have to be This Way' was considered a bit of an environmental classic at the time

dont think it made him much cash thought

Yeah, I've got a copy. It's very clear and well written but I prefer the Ecoropa book covering Green issues from the same period; "The Green Alternative."

he's no madder than someone who thinks a bloke with a beard created the universe in 7 days and for anyone to suggest he is shows a real ignorance of mental health problems

personally i think more and more these days he's got his tongue firmly in his cheek, he may have believed it at first but these days i agree that hes found a niche which brings a degree of fame and a lot of cash and hes sticking with it

Interesting.

 

[butchersapron]

I find this point of view oddly compelling. You (and Structaural) are saying that to start with he did believe in conspiracies, the lizards etc., and then at some point he came to his senses and realised it was all a load of hogwash - but either he continued with it anyway for the craic and the attention, or he was in too deep to back down now, and hey the money was rolling in anyway?

I don't know what to make of that one, but thanks to you both for the suggestion.

One thing no one's mentioned about him yet is that he has used ayahuasca, which he calls the "teacher plant," and indeed he has been organising ayahuasca workshops in South America (Brazil I think). I wonder how much that would explain about him.

Or Davdd 'another son of god' shayler.

 

[butchersapron]

he's no madder than someone who thinks a bloke with a beard created the universe in 7 days and for anyone to suggest he is shows a real ignorance of mental health problems

In what way does it show a real ignorance of mental health problems?

 

[rorymac]

And you can't get much dumber than talksport, the radio station that would insult the intelligence of an amoeba.

There are a few very clever folks at Talksport to be fair. Adrian Durham is one for example but James Whale probably isn't.
Well he's not in truthness but I suppose Ickey can't help that.
<scarpers>

 

[smokedout]

In what way does it show a real ignorance of mental health problems?

well his consistency for a start and his ability to manage what seems to be a very lucrative business

he certainly doesnt display any signs of schizophrenia

and what he's saying isn't that mad, in fact its as old as the hills, gnostism updated

he's wrong, but to suggest that everyone with a belief system which doesnt rely on rational empiricism has a mental illness would to be to condemn 90% of humanity to an institution

 

[Jazzz]

But why shouldn't people laugh at them? Some of it is really funny
Lets go through some of the things Icke has said

He has said that he is the son of god

he pokes fun at himself as being a bit out of it then, and I don't think he meant it like Shayler

He has said that a reptilian conspiracy controls the world including the Rothschilds (big alarm bell) and the royal family

Why big alarm bell? Do some research on the Rothschild family, you will see that they silently took over Europe hundreds of years ago by accumulating the most phenomenal wealth

'Give me control of a nation's currency, and I care not who makes its laws'

...you know who said that, froggy?

Oh but I forgot, we Jews are immune from any scrutiny! Because that's anti-semitic! Whatever we do.

He has said that Diana was murdered because she discovered that Charles and Camilla ritually sacrificed their own child (another alarm bell, especially combined with the Rothschilds thing)

With all due respect, I think you're making that up.

He says that a network of secret societies control the world, something which he only has his own word for and a handful of nutters and which goes against everything we know about globalisation, international political economy, etc

hardly. There's a mass of evidence for this. Just for an example, did it not surprise you that both George Bush and John Kerry were members of Skull & Bones? And neither could talk about it? What kind of power does that give Skull & Bones?

He has said that a small cabal of "Jewish and non-Jewish" wealthy people financed World War 2 and Hitler ... Jews+non-jews = everyone, so why did he even feel the need to mention it?[/quote]Well if you actually looked at the whole book, several hundred pages, instead of just cherry-picking bits from the internet, you'd have some idea. He is outlining how he thinks a network of bloodlines rule, and how conflicts are engineered by them to pit the masses against each other on these silly divisions of race/religion/etc, while the elite are all in bed together (notice how European Royalty always intermarried although the nations would often be war all the time?)

He claims that the Protocols were written by a secret society - which is beginning to sound like a plot of the da vinci code, not something which could plausibly be true

I've barely heard him talk or write about these Protocols in two lectures and having read a fair bit of his books.

I never said conspiracies don't exist ... of course they do

Well that's worth bearing in mind isn't it?

 

[butchersapron]

well his consistency for a start and his ability to manage what seems to be a very lucrative business

he certainly doesnt display any signs of schizophrenia

and what he's saying isn't that mad, in fact its as old as the hills, gnostism updated

he's wrong, but to suggest that everyone with a belief system which doesnt rely on rational empiricism has a mental illness would to be to condemn 90% of humanity to an institution

Sorry, don't see how Icke not habing a specific condition 'show's a real ignorance of mental health problems?'

And i don'tt think anyones suggesting the last bit but you. And maybe grmarthews.

 

[butchersapron]

I've barely heard him talk or write about these Protocols in two lectures and having read a fair bit of his books.

Barely? Has he mentioned them at all these lectures or in these books? If so, what did the millionaire say?

 

[frogwoman]

Just to take your first one (and maybe the lizards as well). I saw an extract from the Wogan interview where he mentioned the climatic catastrophes that were to befall us. He didn't actually say he was the Son of God, as I recall, but he didn't deny it either; it was a bit muffled.

But onto the main course. Not long after he first started giving talks following the "Son of God" episode, he was at a university and students who had turned up to the meeting started laughing at him and jeering at his points. He stopped and said to them;

"How many of you here think I'm mentally ill?"

A lot of hands went up, along with more jeers.

"Right. So you've paid money to come and jeer at someone you think is mentally ill. What does that say about you?"

That shut them up. Something to think about.

Yeah, but going on a message board to laugh at someone you've never met, who isn't participating in the discussion and who isn't there to be offended, is different to laughing in their face and calling them a nutter

I think david icke is seriously mentally ill, either that or he was once and now he is just using this stuff to make money, and i think the people who went along deliberately to laugh at him may have been tossers, but there's no reason to treat his views with respect based on the idea that it's wrong to laugh at the mentally ill - anyone making some sort of claim like that in the public eye needs to be challenged

 

[8ball]

he's wrong, but to suggest that everyone with a belief system which doesnt rely on rational empiricism has a mental illness would to be to condemn 90% of humanity to an institution

This is a very good point, I think.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm not making the charles and camilla stuff up jazzz - I've actually heard this theory from someone who believed it and said that they got it from one of david icke's videos

I don't actually know if Icke made these allegations but can you seriously look at the stuff he's saying and think that he's telling the truth???

http:// stargods.org/StudyOfReptilians.htm

Arizona Wilder (a recovered mind control sex slave, like Cathy O'Brien, of Trance Formation of America book) told me how she had conducted sacrificial rituals involving the British royal family, Tony Blair, and famous American Illuminati names like George Bush, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Henry Kissenger and many others.

The highest operative she knew in the Illuminati, she said was a guy calling himself the Marquis de Libeaux ("of the water"). His codename was Pindar, which she says means "penis of the dragon". Arazona told me how the Queen and Queen Mother regularly sacrifice babies and adults at many ritual centres, including Castle in Balmoral, Scotland, where they were staying at the time Diana was ritually murdered in Paris.

The royal family involved in human sacrifice was fantastic enough, but here again came the constantly repeated theme. She described how, during thje rituals, these people shape-shift into reptiles. Diane Gould, head of the US Organization, Mothers Against Ritual Abuse, also confirms this theme. In a telephone conversation about ritual abuse, Diane asked me if I could explain why many of her clients reported that participants in their rituals had turned into reptiles. People might want to dismiss all this, but they should know that, while they close their eyes and their minds, children are being sacrificed all over the world this very day by the reptilian bloodlines --- many thousands of them o the main ritual dates. Arizona talked about some of her experiences with Queen Mother:

"The Queen Mother was cold, cold, cold, a nasty person. None of her cohorts even trusted her. They have names an altar (mind-control programme) after her. They call it the Black Queen. I have seen her sacrifice people. I remember her pushing a knife into someone's rectum the night the two boys were sacrificed. One was 13 and the others 18. You need to forget that the Queen Mother appears to be a frail woman. When she shape-shifts into a reptilian, she becomes very tall and strong. Some of them are so strong they can rip out a heart and they all grow by several feet when they shape-shift (This is what the lady said who saw Edward Heath, among endless others.)"

Of the Queen, Arizona said:

"I have seen her sacrifice people and eat their flesh and drink their blood. One time she got so excited with blood-lust that she didn't cut the victim's throat from the left to the right in the normal ritual. She just went crazy, stabbing and ripping at the flesh after she shape-shifted into a reptilian. When she shape-shifts, she has a long reptile face, almost like a beak and she is an off-white colour. (This fits many descriptions of the gods and the "bird gods" of ancient Egypt and elsewhere.) The Queen Mother looks basically the same, but there are differences. She (the Queen) also has bumps on her head and her eyes are very frightening. She's very aggressive..."

"...I have seen (Prince Charles) shape-shift into a reptilian and do all of the things the Queen does. I have seen him sacrifice children. There is a lot of rivalry between them for who gets to eat eat what part of the body and who gets to absorb the victim's last breath and steal their soul. I have seen Andrew participate and I have seen Prince Phillip and Charles sister (Anne) at the rituals, but they didn't participate when I was there. When Andrew shape-shifts, he looks more like one of the lizards. The royals are some of the worst. Ok, as far as enjoying the killing, enjoying the sacrifice, and eating the flesh, they are some of the worst of all of them. They don't care if you see it. Who are you going to tell, who is going to believe you? They feel that it is their birthright and they love it. They love it."

I don't really want to go on arguing this with you because it's pointless and you'll never change what you believe.

 

[rorymac]

This is a very good point, I think.

It's the point of 2008 so far .. nice one Urban 75

he's wrong, but to suggest that everyone with a belief system which doesnt rely on rational empiricism has a mental illness would to be to condemn 90% of humanity to an institution

Nice one guys !

 

[smokedout]

Sorry, don't see how Icke not habing a specific condition 'show's a real ignorance of mental health problems?'

And i don'tt think anyones suggesting the last bit but you. And maybe grmarthews.

having spent much of my life working with people with genuine mental health problems i just find crass pronouncements on someones sanity a little distasteful

he's a successful businessman, a skilled self-publicist, has successfully raised two children and appears to have maintained a successful relationship

sadly that is not the experience of someone with a genuine mental health condition

and tbh the fact that someone of his age with a mental health condition who has not at some time had intervention/treatment from mental health professionals is unheard of

 

[frogwoman]

http://oneheartbooks.com/books/david_icke/revelations_mother_goddess.htm

 

[Yossarian]

I don't actually know if Icke made these allegations but can you seriously look at the stuff he's saying and think that he's telling the truth???

Fucking hell, there's people out there who actually believe that stuff about reptiles?

 

[butchersapron]

having spent much of my life working with people with genuine mental health problems i just find crass pronouncements on someones sanity a little distasteful

he's a successful businessman, a skilled self-publicist, has successfully raised two children and appears to have maintained a successful relationship

sadly that is not the experience of someone with a genuine mental health condition

and tbh the fact that someone of his age with a mental health condition who has not at some time had intervention/treatment from mental health professionals is unheard of

I'm sure you would. You've not really established that this is the case though. Not being treated doesn't mean that it's not there.

[I'm not saying that he has a mental health condition - i suspect he has, and that it'e evident from his behaviour -to tooey bollocks]

 

[rorymac]

He's not the full shilling but no one is .. there is not one single solitary person who is not a bit tapped at least imo

 

[frogwoman]

Fucking hell, there's people out there who actually believe that stuff about reptiles?

There's loads of stuff out there about it.

I appear to be mistaken ... what david icke seems to have said is that diana was sacrificed herself and that the place of her death used to be a shrine to the "godess diana" and that they wanted her to marry prince charles in case they became too reptilian and weren't able to change into a human form ...

The fact is though, that David Icke's star "witness" arizona wilder claims that she witnessed and participated in sacrifices of children by the royal family and other public figures ... and he doesn't appear to contradict her at any time - in fact he describes her in his book and videos as a "mind controlled sex slave"

 

[smokedout]

one of the things that winds me up about Icke is his indulgence of people like Arozona Wilder who do appear to have some form of mental health condition

i suspect that Wilder is just attention seeking but in the case of Cathy O' Brian she is clearly someone with a (well documented) history of mental illness and needs treatment and support, not indulgence and exploitation from the likes of Icke who uses her case to flog more of his books

and jazzz icke's book the Robots Rebellion is almost entirely based on the protocals which he renames the protocols of the illuminati

 

[snadge]

He's not the full shilling but no one is .. there is not one single solitary person who is not a bit tapped at least imo

Good 'un, at least I'm not the only one to believe that.

 

[frogwoman]

Here's Chapter 19 of "The Biggest Secret" which is about Diana, the royal family and child sacrifice ... decide for yourself.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret19.htm

 

[longdog]

Here's Chapter 19 of "The Biggest Secret" which is about Diana, the royal family and child sacrifice ... decide for yourself.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/biggestsecret19.htm

The Bouvier bloodline has been traced back to Grenoble, France, where it is first mentioned in 1410

 

[frogwoman]

And Jazzz - it's not anti-semitic if its' true
i criticise judaism all the time but there's a difference between making criticisms of israel and of jewish culture and religion which are actually valid and which no sensible person would say was anti-semitic, such as saying that some of the rules in orthodoxy are outdated and can be quite sexist, or saying that some aspects of our beliefs can occasionally lend themselves to racist ideas, and making malicious anti-semitic accusations based on myths that have been discredited and lies which have been made up in order to hurt the jewish people and create a scapegoat when everything else in the country is going badly and to repeat lies which led to millions of peoples deaths over centuries and apply them to a new set of victims who might not all be jewish this time

everyone's basic instinct is survival and it is true that some jewish families did build up significant amounts of wealth in order to gain some sort of political clout so that they wouldn't be targetted or so that they would gain greater acceptability in society ... disraeli's family were one of these families and they did socially acceptable things like get their children baptised rather than bring them up as jewish ... and to say they "took over europe" is nonsense when other agencies which were hostile to anything about jews still had such a lot of wealth and power

the ONLY way jewish people had any kind of guarantee of surviving in much of europe was if they were rich enough to be able to get some degree of acceptability by the ruling class - meaning the aristocracy, and abandon their beliefs and adopt such a watered down version of them that they would be unrecognisable
so obviously people would have done that becuase they wanted the best future for their family, even if it meant getting really wealthy and screwing over some people in the process ... and it wouldn't have screwed over nearly as many people as the existing ruling class had done

it's a big alarm bell because people have been saying that sort of thing about the rothschilds and criticising the Jews' "accumulation of wealth" for ages and it ignores the fact that bigger accumulations of wealth went on all the time - the church of england is the biggest landowner in britain and the catholic church is in several other countries, and the fact that barons and feudal lords were fighting with each other in Europe until a few hundred years ago all the time for control of territory, because they thought it was theirs or they were too removed from society's problems and had been brought up to dehumanise ordinary people, that they thought it would be all right to kill people and get them to fight in their name because of private vendettas

and of course revolutionary movements were also built up - it ignores the power of ordinary people to change things if they really wanted to

how can, for example, the soviet union be proof of a global conspiracy with bloodlines going on for thousands of years if lenin's family came from the russian intelligentsia (a persecuted class in pre-revolutionary russia) and stalin was a georgian peasant, and it itself was so beset by feuds and factions that people ended up getting killed who had previously fought on the same side?

the royal families of europe were full of family feuds and divisions and sometimes countries were plunged into war BECAUSE of who someone was meant to marry and didn't want to - it wasn't like they all exactly agreed on what they wanted to do and conveniently went to war to keep the public distracted - the royal families HATED each other half the time and their disagreements and the political culture were intensely personal ... or because someone's brother was left more money than someone else in their will or because there were rival heirs to the throne, it was the politics of a gigantic family feud conveniently dressed up to the people who fought in these conflicts as the right thing to do for the country, or not even that ... they didn't even pretend to be looking after the interests of the public half the time, they were there by divine right or because they had conquered the land and it was "their land" ...

 

[frogwoman]

Further proof of the conspiracy

My uncle, who works as the head of the SA nuclear agency, owns two Bouvier dogs, and my mum's family are related to some old aristocratic families

Why would they buy such terrible looking dogs if they weren't being loyal to their heritage of the house of bouvier??

that proves it, IMO i think my uncle must be a lizard. and my mum, and her mum, and everyone in the family ...

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Frogwoman, earlier today.