Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Teaboy]

And hot off the press...

Fans set to be allowed at outdoor sports

Up to 4,000 fans are set to be allowed at outdoor events in the lowest-risk areas when the national lockdown in England ends.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[frogwoman]

But everyone has a different thing they like / that helps them mentally so some people are going to want religious services / buildings open, some people are going to want football etc. Don't get me wrong I'm desperate for stuff to be open but I don't think you can argue there's no risk attached. I don't think you can argue that football stuff should be open at full capacity at the moment because it's not just the stands, it's the toilets, getting food, turnstiles etc. I'm desperate to go but I think 4000 might be far too many? Sometimes we struggle getting that number to a regular game!

 

[andysays]

Watching your local non league football team seems infinitely safer than, say, going to the supermarket or getting on a crowded tube.

What it feels like isn't necessarily an accurate indication of how risky something is.
Risk is cumulative, so even if activity A is less risky than activity B, the risk of doing both is still A+B, regardless of the actual values of A and B.
For many people, activities like visiting the supermarket or travelling to work on public transport aren't things they can choose not to do, whereas watching your local non league football probably is.

 

[Teaboy]

But everyone has a different thing they like / that helps them mentally so some people are going to want religious services / buildings open, some people are going to want football etc. Don't get me wrong I'm desperate for stuff to be open but I don't think you can argue there's no risk attached.

Sure but surely these things should be based upon level of risk. I'd argue that in general outdoor events will most likely be much lower risk than a lot of indoor events. Its certainly worth looking into.

I don't think it should be based upon who shouts the loudest.

 

[frogwoman]

Shouldn't be but it will be because of whose in government,

 

[two sheds]

I don't think it should be based upon who shouts the loudest.

True, only increases the chance of infection, that.

 

[elbows]

Well, yes. I wouldn't expect football to be allowed if we were at the highest level of infection.

Peoples standards of what counts as a high level of infection seem to move though, as I briefly mentioned earlier. So many places have recently had infection levels which, if seen during the summer, would have placed them straight on the oh shit local lockdown coming list. But people sometimes still describe their areas rate as low, but this seems like a relative judgement to me, relative to even higher levels they've seen elsewhere as the 2nd wave emerged. Pretty much everywhere hospital admission rates really suck compared to the summer, and that tells me most of what I need to know about risk right now.

One consequence of the national restrictions seems to have been that the media havent bothered to provide a complete picture of where is suffering badly at the moment, just occasionally mentioning an area that suddenly claims the highest infection rate crown, but not discussing the regions sensibly. With regional tier restrictions coming back the focus should now shift somewhat back in that direction, and it will be interesting to see how much surprise people experience when the tier levels are announced for each area.

 

[LDC]

Some stuff about mass testing for people in Tier 3 areas beng announced, with some stuff about that enabling people who test negative to meet up with others who test negative as well. Doesn't sound like a great plan tbh.

Some classic Guardian accuracy here,

"He says the lockdown for England will end next week. From Wednesday next year people will be able to leave their homes. Shops will be able to reopen. And in tier 3 indoor entertainment and hotels will close, and restaurants and pubs will only be able to serve."

 

[Badgers]

So it is all fine?

Phew

 

[elbows]

BBC attempt is less Guardiantastic.

• Tier one will now mean that people should continue to work from home where possible
• Tier two will now mean only pubs serving meals can open
• Tier three will now mean hospitality will close except for delivery and takeaway and indoor entertainment venues must also close

 

[Teaboy]

Some stuff about mass testing for people in Tier 3 areas beng announced, with some stuff about that enabling people who test negative to meet up with others who test negative as well. Doesn't sound like a great plan tbh.

Some classic Guardian accuracy here,

"He says the lockdown for England will end next week. From Wednesday next year people will be able to leave their homes. Shops will be able to reopen. And in tier 3 indoor entertainment and hotels will close, and restaurants and pubs will only be able to serve."

Liverpool style mass testing for all tier 3 areas which sounds good. The other bit was about daily tests for people instead of isolating and then only isolating if a positive test returned.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Christ, just got a message in a WhatsApp group of local players:

Football's back

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's just fiddling around the edges, it's not going to help much.

 

[Teaboy]

Only thing that surprised me was the bit about spectators not only back at outdoor sports but also indoor sports. Also a brief mention that would be the same for theatres and presumably live music venues. Obviously all within strict number control and guidelines.

 

[LDC]

"Get ready to come on in third wave, your time is up in about late January."

 

[Mation]

You either go for complete lockdown - and that would have to include tube/bus travel/shopping because they all feel a lot less safe than standing in a park watching a football game - or you find areas which have a low risk attached as a compromise to help loneliness/mental health etc.

Difficult to manage across large areas, though. The rules apparently now say that up to 4000 can go to an outdoor sporting event. I know 4k are unlikely to turn up to a DHFC game ( soz ), but if that's a general rule, then 4k could.

Outdoors or no, how safe would that be? Does anyone have the capacity to work out and report/communicate and enforce safe (mostly) outdoor (but indoors for bar and loo) numbers for every individual event/location?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

• Tier two will now mean only pubs serving meals can open

Slight change from before, you may only drink in a pub whilst eating, once you finish your food you must leave. Encouraging obesity during a pandemic that kills the obese...

 

[souljacker]

Difficult to manage across large areas, though. The rules apparently now say that up to 4000 can go to an outdoor sporting event. I know 4k are unlikely to turn up to a DHFC game ( soz ), but if that's a general rule, then 4k could.

A percentage of capacity would make more sense.

 

[Looby]

Difficult to manage across large areas, though. The rules apparently now say that up to 4000 can go to an outdoor sporting event. I know 4k are unlikely to turn up to a DHFC game ( soz ), but if that's a general rule, then 4k could.

Outdoors or no, how safe would that be? Does anyone have the capacity to work out and report/communicate and enforce safe (mostly) outdoor (but indoors for bar and loo) numbers for every individual event/location?

I would imagine/hope that it’ll be worked out based on capacity with an upper limit of 4k.

 

[Teaboy]

Difficult to manage across large areas, though. The rules apparently now say that up to 4000 can go to an outdoor sporting event. I know 4k are unlikely to turn up to a DHFC game ( soz ), but if that's a general rule, then 4k could.

Outdoors or no, how safe would that be? Does anyone have the capacity to work out and report/communicate and enforce safe (mostly) outdoor (but indoors for bar and loo) numbers for every individual event/location?

These things are already all in place anyway as part of their risk assessments and their licences.

 

[elbows]

"Get ready to come on in third wave, your time is up in about late January."

They've found a way to make sure the third wave never comes - dont let the second wave end!

 

[cupid_stunt]

That idiot Tory MP suggesting the tiers should be drilled down to borough/district rather than county/city region levels.

FFS, out of 6 local council areas in West Sussex, Worthing Borough is the only one with under 100 cases per 100k, it's the biggest town for work, shopping & leisure, so loads of people from the surrounding district council areas travel in & out of the borough, it would be fucking nuts to have us in a different tier to the rest of the county.

I doubt West Sussex will be in tier 3, but I hope the whole county is in tier 2, rather than 1 as we were before.



And, think about London, different tiers for different boroughs, fucking bonkers.

 

[Teaboy]

• Tier two will now mean only pubs serving meals can open

Slight change from before, you may only drink in a pub whilst eating, once you finish your food you must leave. Encouraging obesity during a pandemic that kills the obese...

Yes, he seemed to say that drinks can only be purchased when having a substantial meal. This seems to be a shift away from it just being enough for the venue to serve meals. Back into the bind of having to open but your potential customer base being further and further reduced. Death by a thousand cuts.

Just pay them to stay shut ffs. All this stupid dancing on a pin head shit.

 

[elbows]

Back into the bind of having to open but your potential customer base being further and further reduced. Death by a thousand cuts.

With the furlough thing extended throughout winter, I dont think its back to quite that stark a choice, not quite the situation that for example Manchester was in for a while. I suppose I'll wait till Thursday when we find out what area is in what tier before having too much more to say about this.

 

[frogwoman]

Only thing that surprised me was the bit about spectators not only back at outdoor sports but also indoor sports. Also a brief mention that would be the same for theatres and presumably live music venues. Obviously all within strict number control and guidelines.

Probably because indoor sports are going to be at a disadvantage with not being able to start up, train and so on and presumably providing just as much enjoyment and mental / physical health benefits. When pubs open there's going to be loads of people saying 'why can I sit in a pub but not watch/play ice hockey/basketball/figure skating/badminton etc at a safe distance'

 

[Badgers]

Yes, he seemed to say that drinks can only be purchased when having a substantial meal. This seems to be a shift away from it just being enough for the venue to serve meals. Back into the bind of having to open but your potential customer base being further and further reduced. Death by a thousand cuts.

Just pay them to stay shut ffs. All this stupid dancing on a pin head shit.

Policing meal sizes ffs

 

[Teaboy]

Probably because indoor sports are going to be at a disadvantage with not being able to start up, train and so on and presumably providing just as much enjoyment and mental / physical health benefits. When pubs open there's going to be loads of people saying 'why can I sit in a pub but not watch/play ice hockey/basketball/figure skating/badminton etc at a safe distance'

But that's what I meant earlier about based on risk. It seems to me that these decisions are not being taken based upon risk.

 

[elbows]

Its risk combined with a load of other stuff as discussed earlier. Which doesn't lead to the same results as it would if risk were their only consideration.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Policing meal sizes ffs

I once went for a celebration meal at Jumbo floating restaurant in Hong Kong and it lasted 6 hours, endless small courses, one exciting one was the broccoli course, a bowl with a single floret in it. That kind of thing could catch on here...

 

[andysays]

Liverpool style mass testing for all tier 3 areas which sounds good. The other bit was about daily tests for people instead of isolating and then only isolating if a positive test returned.

It may sound good, but I really wonder if the capacity is there to do it, or at least do it properly.