Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[cupid_stunt]

Nobody's saying they're 100% - that's a straw man argument.

And I don't think people are arguing that it should be more prevalent - just that we shouldn't simply throw up our hands and abandon everything in the name of some political dead cat.

I do believe you mean dead dog.

 

[pbsmooth]

Nobody's saying they're 100% - that's a straw man argument.

And I don't think people are arguing that it should be more prevalent - just that we shouldn't simply throw up our hands and abandon everything in the name of some political dead cat.

erm I was literally replying to someone who was equating wearing masks directly with preventing deaths.
and then practically the next poster was saying why can't we just all wear masks in busy places.
so... I guess you agree with me.

 

[existentialist]

erm I was literally replying to someone who was equating wearing masks directly with preventing deaths.
and then practically the next poster was saying why can't we just all wear masks in busy places.
so... I guess you agree with me.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

When people talk about how we didn’t wear masks for flu as a justification for dropping them for covid. Does it cross your mind that maybe we should wear masks to prevent the spread of flu?

Some people like to compare the death figures for covid to previous years’ death figures for flu as some kind of gotcha because people have taken notice of covid and apparently didn’t care about flu deaths. Non pharmaceutical measures for covid have wiped out some strains of flu altogether, these measures have worked on flu as well.

Why is wearing a mask in an enclosed or crowded public space such a difficult thing to accept? Harder to accept than 1000 preventable deaths a week, two years in?

In winter last year I thought there would be much more public information campaigns in future about wearing masks in winter to prevent flu because, as you said, flu has had our collective boots on its head since we all started wearing masks. I guess because covid is still the disease we're all focusing on it hasn't come to pass yet but it may well do in future.

I don't think chastising people for not wearing masks is helpful anymore, particularly when it's no longer law it's just a waste of energy. I learned that the hard way working in a shop all the way through. Instead I think the focus should be on legally compelling crowded places to be properly ventilated. I think ventilation is the key to infection control in general and not just covid.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

This is why we still have a royal family innit?

'Back to work, plebs. If the Queen can do it you can too.'

 

[Artaxerxes]

This is why we still have a royal family innit?

'Back to work, plebs. If the Queen can do it you can too.'

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Look forward to seeing her doing a shift delivering Prime parcels

 

[elbows]

Yeah the Mail is the worst but quite a lot of the other newspaper front pages are also about as subtle as a brick to the face today.

 

[two sheds]

My mum broke her hip when she was 80 and never recovered. The Queen Mum broke her hip around the same time and was skipping around happily after a few months. We should clearly be telling old people that they're malingering if they don't pull themselves together and heal themselves pdq.

 

[StoneRoad]

Of course, if we all had the same level of medical care & high quality diet available that this particular family does, then maybe, just maybe, the daily heil & other rags might have a point.
But we don't, despite the best efforts of the NHS.

 

[two sheds]

Of course, if we all had the same level of medical care & high quality diet available that this particular family does, then maybe, just maybe, the daily heil & other rags might have a point.
But we don't, despite the best efforts of the NHS.

Yep, exactly like my mum vs the queen mum

 

[platinumsage]

Yeah the Mail is the worst but quite a lot of the other newspaper front pages are also about as subtle as a brick to the face today.

The Sun was the worst because their headline "HRH TO WFH" is factually inaccurate, because the Queen is referred to as HM, whereas HRH is used for princesses but never the monarch.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

The Sun was the worst because their headline "HRH TO WFH" is factually inaccurate, because the Queen is referred to HM, whereas HRH is used for princesses but never the monarch.

That's not how we refer to the queen in our house.

 

[elbows]

I see the likes of John Bell still make this sort of claim:

"I think we can rely pretty effectively on good behaviour from the population to avoid spread of the disease," he tells BBC Radio 4's World at One programme, adding that only the unvaccinated are now "really suffering badly" from Covid.

Thats from the 13:59 entry of the BBC live updates page https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60461378

However when I look at the vaccine surveillance report, I still see figures for 2022 which utterly contradict that claim, eg:


From https://assets.publishing.service.g...5620/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_7.pdf

Do the media ever point this out? Not that I've seen. There are some 'with' rather than 'because of' caveats but those still dont utterly demolish my point.

 

[Wilf]

I've never heard anyone in the NHS asking for people to wear a mask and get vaccinated to protect them. I hear a lot of stuff about better pay and investment though. Just a thought.

+ and plenty of

 

[StoneRoad]

I've never heard anyone in the NHS asking for people to wear a mask and get vaccinated to protect them. I hear a lot of stuff about better pay and investment though. Just a thought.

Ballcoxs.

My SiL works in the NHS - and she's said all four of those things ... to me and others !

Been to outpatients recently - asked to wear mask & sanitise hands & keep up with social distancing, and was asked if I'm vaxx'ed ... so yet more ballcoxs from IC3D.

 

[existentialist]

Ballcoxs.

My SiL works in the NHS - and she's said all four of those things ... to me and others !

Been to outpatients recently - asked to wear mask & sanitise hands & keep up with social distancing, and was asked if I'm vaxx'ed ... so yet more ballcoxs from IC3D.

Thing is, what IC3D isn't saying is that the minute it looks like anyone's going to talk about masks or vaccines, he puts his fingers in his ears and shouts "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". Just like he does on here.

So, strictly speaking, he's right - he has never heard it.

 

[elbows]

I suppose I will watch the Johnson, Whitty and Vallance press conference at 7pm and comment on it here, though in terms of my broader thoughts on todays details and document, I've put those on the living with covid thread instead. Rather than rant in long detail I've been brief and will try to spread my thoughts out over the coming weeks and months instead.

 

[MickiQ]

Just read on the Beeb that the isolation payment for people on low incomes to encourage them to stay at home rather than go to work spreading the lurgy around because they're desperate for cash will end this week as well.
Another well thought out measure to contain it there.

 

[elbows]

My first comment on the press conference is that as of now at least, they forgot to switch off live chat on the youtube stream.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Urgh no still can't listen to the twat. We already know most of it anyway.

 

[elbows]

The difference in messaging from Whitty and Vallance compared to Johnson was quite obvious. A couple of journalists pointed out that the deprived are being fucked over. Concerns about future variants remain quite high. Shit funding priorities and psychological priorities have increased the gap between SAGE etc advise and what the government have decided to do.

 

[existentialist]

The difference in messaging from Whitty and Vallance compared to Johnson was quite obvious. A couple of journalists pointed out that the deprived are being fucked over. Concerns about future variants remain quite high. Shit funding priorities and psychological priorities have increased the gap between SAGE etc advise and what the government have decided to do.

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is how transparently shortsighted this approach is. So much so that it has to be wilful. I can hardly bear to watch Johnson, as he mouths his barefaced likes and platitudes along with a - to be fair, rapidly collapsing - line in smirks and three-word slogans. He must know that 90% of what he says is bullshit - yet he is clearly so full of himself that he thinks he will get away with it. I think Pickman's model's penguins are well overdue a treat.

 

[elbows]

Its even worse when Johnson tries to make noises of agreement in regards something the likes of Vallance have just said, even when the thing Vallance has said was actually a thinly veiled criticism of the governments new plan.

There were quite a few Vallance quotes today which fit into that category, and that sort of thing is usually a fairly good indicator that when I get round to reading the relevant SAGE papers, they will have recommended all sorts of things that the government has decided to ignore.

It seems my mum got more out of this press conference than most of the other ones she has watched, because she picked up on some of the remarks from Vallance and to a lesser extent Whitty which were clearly pointing in a different direction to the government plan. Some of the journalists questions tickled her fancy too.

 

[elbows]

As expected via Vallances words today, I've now read the SAGE documents for their 10th February meeting and it indeed includes stuff like:

Mobility data (which only captures the level of mixing rather than the type of contact) suggest mixing has gradually increased throughout January, with a marked change following the lifting of Plan B measures. SPI-M-O currently estimates that a combination of behavioural change (e.g. increased home working, mask wearing) and mitigations (e.g. testing, self-isolation) are currently reducing transmission by 20–45%. This suggests there is significant potential for transmission to increase if behaviours revert rapidly to pre-pandemic norms and mitigations are removed (medium confidence). The faster growth of BA.2 may also increase this risk.

SPI-M-O has reviewed several sets of prior modelled scenarios, where R has been set to a range of values from a given date, against actual admissions data. The period of flat prevalence and admissions in summer and autumn 2021, is suggestive of a significant role for self-regulation of behaviour, in which testing is likely to have played a part (low confidence). Future waves of infections could have sharper peaks if reduced testing availability hampers self-regulation.

Removing access to free testing would make it harder for people to take this and other precautionary actions. It may also increase anxiety among those who have found testing reassuring after possible exposure, particularly those who are or live with someone who is clinically vulnerable. Increased ambiguity about a requirement to self-isolate upon testing positive will also disproportionately impact vulnerable sections of the population (medium confidence).

Some people may also take the removal of free and accessible testing as a signal that they should continue to attend workplaces/social gatherings while showing COVID-19 symptoms, as these become conflated with other symptoms of respiratory illness such as influenza. Various proactive measures could be considered to address the culture and impacts of “presenteeism” including encouraging individuals to work from home when unwell (where possible), providing adequate financial support (sick pay) for employees and providing effective incentives, advice and guidance for organisations and employers.

Public messaging should make efforts to stress the different needs and risk appetites of others. This should help to improve understanding of the continued need and adoption of protective behaviours by different groups and reduce the risk of social tensions, abusive incidents and stigma towards minority groups.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1054509/S1509_SAGE_105_minutes.pdf

I expect I will quote and discuss some of that stuff in the 'Living with Covid plan' thread i the days ahead, although I plan to take a break for the next few days. I've just mentioned some of the other SAGE February documents in that thread, but now I need to take a break.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

elbows enjoy your break.

 

[Cloo]

This is why we still have a royal family innit?

'Back to work, plebs. If the Queen can do it you can too.'

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Well, this is all part of the mail's general campaign to paint anyone younger than your average DM reader as a workshy layabout who had clearly been putting their feet up for the last two years and refusing to 'go back to work'

 

[cupid_stunt]

Sky News is reporting the Queen has cancelled her zoom meetings this afternoon, because of covid, so this 'keep working' nonsense is going well.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It must be a nightmare having to do Zoom meetings for the Queen, what with her kids continually barging in and embarrassing her. Bet she can't wait to get back in the office.

 

[Wilf]

It must be a nightmare having to do Zoom meetings for the Queen, what with her kids continually barging in and embarrassing her. Bet she can't wait to get back in the office.

Sounds off Camera: 'Mum. Mum. MUUUUUM! Can I have 12 million quid?'

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Sounds off Camera: 'Mum. Mum. MUUUUUM! Can I have 12 million quid?'

'No you can't have your titles back and if you don't stop complaining I'm going to confiscate your XBox again.'

'Yes well Edward hasn't disgraced the family recently so he gets to stay up and play Call of Duty.'