Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[l'Otters]

Double post

 

[existentialist]

When people talk about how we didn’t wear masks for flu as a justification for dropping them for covid. Does it cross your mind that maybe we should wear masks to prevent the spread of flu?

Some people like to compare the death figures for covid to previous years’ death figures for flu as some kind of gotcha because people have taken notice of covid and apparently didn’t care about flu deaths. Non pharmaceutical measures for covid have wiped out some strains of flu altogether, these measures have worked on flu as well.

Why is wearing a mask in an enclosed or crowded public space such a difficult thing to accept? Harder to accept than 1000 preventable deaths a week, two years in?

Oh, I'm definitely going to take something away from this Covid thing, and yes - if there's a lot of 'flu going around, I'll be masking up, no doubt about it. I'd like to think that Covid might have ushered in some of the same social changes that we see in the Far East around infection control and masks, perhaps to a slightly less, culturally mediated, degree. It's no great hardship for most of us, whatever the noisy minority might have to say about it.

 

[elbows]

By the way I'm torn between several threads when it comes to ranting about some of the incoming changes at the moment, and I'm trying to put quite a bit of it in the 'Living with Covid plan' thread rather than this one. I've just been moaning there about Johnsons latest choice of words and the idea that they arent even going to keep the ONS infection survey (the thing that tells us 'one in x people were estimated to have Covid in England in the week ending xx'. Sounds like they are going nearly all the way back to the old orthodox approach that I spent so much time in this pandemic criticising and blaming for initial failures. The UK doesnt believe people have a right to mass diagnostics testing, and they dont like some of the consequences of such testing, and such attitudes and priorities really limit the extent to which we can benefit long-term from lessons learnt in this pandemic.

 

[Steel Icarus]

The Queen has got Covid. "Will continue to undertake light duties". I thought all she did was shake hands and ask people what they do.

 

[klang]

if I managed to avoid thus far, how did the Queen catch it? would have thought her social network was a lot smaller than mine...

 

[elbows]

If it killed her then it would be very awkward timing for their agenda, but I suppose more likely she will be fine and then they will use her recovery to encourage old and vulnerable people to get up close and personal with strangers in nightclubs.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

The Queen has got Covid. "Will continue to undertake light duties". I thought all she did was shake hands and ask people what they do.

Until she tests negative for two consecutive days she's refusing to bail out any of her children.

 

[two sheds]

By the way I'm torn between several threads when it comes to ranting about some of the incoming changes at the moment, and I'm trying to put quite a bit of it in the 'Living with Covid plan' thread rather than this one. I've just been moaning there about Johnsons latest choice of words and the idea that they arent even going to keep the ONS infection survey (the thing that tells us 'one in x people were estimated to have Covid in England in the week ending xx'. Sounds like they are going nearly all the way back to the old orthodox approach that I spent so much time in this pandemic criticising and blaming for initial failures. The UK doesnt believe people have a right to mass diagnostics testing, and they dont like some of the consequences of such testing, and such attitudes and priorities really limit the extent to which we can benefit long-term from lessons learnt in this pandemic.

Yes I was thinking of suggesting something like a 'Living with Covid' for people who are vulnerable before I realized there was already a 'Living with Covid' thread. Good if this sort of information goes there I think.

Rather than not publishing infection/hospital/death figures I'd prefer to see figures from all causes then we could make up our own minds about the relative risks.

 

[StoneRoad]

That's in the main hospital for my area.

it walked over 25m down that mezzanine level to reach that point - unmasked & accompanied by the dir of nursing.
an aide handed a mask over shortly after this image was taken, which was - belatedly - worn.

 

[klang]

she will be fine and then they will use her recovery to encourage old and vulnerable people to get up close and personal with strangers in nightclubs.

is that where she caught it?

 

[weepiper]

if I managed to avoid thus far, how did the Queen catch it? would have thought her social network was a lot smaller than mine...

She's supposed to have got it from Charles who tested positive after a charity event last week.

 

[elbows]

if I managed to avoid thus far, how did the Queen catch it? would have thought her social network was a lot smaller than mine...

Even if it wasnt her son who gave it to her, she has rather a large staff. In the first wave they put the staff in a bubble to protect her, offering her the sort of 'protective ring of steel' that was not given to care home residents.

This time around articles such as the BBC one about her testing positive include not just references to Charles, but also stuff like:

It is understood a number of people have tested positive at Windsor Castle, where the Queen resides.

The following day, she smiled as she suggested she had mobility problems during a meeting with defence staff. Standing while using a walking stick, she pointed to her left leg and said: "Well, as you can see, I can't move."

The Queen tests positive for Covid

She has mild symptoms and expects to continue "light duties" at Windsor, Buckingham Palace says.

www.bbc.co.uk

And that one wasnt a virtual meeting, as can be seen in some video footage:

Queen Elizabeth quips she 'can't move' too much

Britain's Queen Elizabeth on Wednesday quipped to members of the royal household that she could not move much as she carried out her first in-person engagement since her son Prince Charles tested positive for COVID-19.

www.reuters.com

 

[klang]

In the first wave they put the staff in a bubble to protect her,

surprised they are not still doing that.

 

[two sheds]

The Interactive map/cases data site is asking for comments on their site today:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases

 

[elbows]

Yes I was thinking of suggesting something like a 'Living with Covid' for people who are vulnerable before I realized there was already a 'Living with Covid' thread. Good if this sort of information goes there I think.

Rather than not publishing infection/hospital/death figures I'd prefer to see figures from all causes then we could make up our own minds about the relative risks.

Traditionally in non-pandemic times what I'm used to having publicly available to us is monthly, quarterly and yearly mortality data from the ONS, and during 'flu season' there has long been a weekly surveillance report which was expanded to include Covid in recent years, and kept going all year round during the pandemic so far. I wasnt familiar with what, if any, hospital data was available pre-pandemic. I now know where to look if such health data indicators do continue, but I'll have low expectations about whether they continue to be available on a weekly basis throughout the entire year.

 

[two sheds]

Traditionally in non-pandemic times what I'm used to having publicly available to us is monthly, quarterly and yearly mortality data from the ONS, and during 'flu season' there has long been a weekly surveillance report which was expanded to include Covid in recent years, and kept going all year round during the pandemic so far. I wasnt familiar with what, if any, hospital data was available pre-pandemic. I now know where to look if such health data indicators do continue, but I'll have low expectations about whether they continue to be available on a weekly basis throughout the entire year.

that survey in the post above is interesting - I'm sure it would be worthwhile you taking a look. They're e.g. asking for how you use the site/improvements.

 

[elbows]

The survey has been active for a while but Im afraid I'm not bothering because all the signs are that the government will pull a large quantity of the underlying data streams regardless.

 

[two sheds]

yep I did ask in one of their boxes how they would be carrying on if the testing dwindles.

 

[2hats]

When people talk about how we didn’t wear masks for flu as a justification for dropping them for covid. Does it cross your mind that maybe we should wear masks to prevent the spread of flu?

Some people like to compare the death figures for covid to previous years’ death figures for flu as some kind of gotcha because people have taken notice of covid and apparently didn’t care about flu deaths. Non pharmaceutical measures for covid have wiped out some strains of flu altogether, these measures have worked on flu as well.

Why is wearing a mask in an enclosed or crowded public space such a difficult thing to accept? Harder to accept than 1000 preventable deaths a week, two years in?

Listening to a senior NIH virologist (flu specialist) the other week who said that one of the personal changes he will make going forward is to wear a N95 mask when they anticipate being in crowded enclosed spaces during the winter respiratory virus season, even avoiding packed indoor bars during that period. They made the point that, additional deaths aside, the consequences of influenza infections are estimated to cost the US economy between $10-50B each year just from folks staying home and that, due to masking and distancing, we've just seen next to no flu for a year and have either seen the extinction of, or come close to the extinction of, an entire lineage of influenza virus (B/Yamagata).

 

[elbows]

Yeah Im still very interested in that sort of thing but frankly some of the posts here in the last 2 or 3 months have caused me to downgrade my hopes for the future in that regard.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

The Queen has got Covid. "Will continue to undertake light duties". I thought all she did was shake hands and ask people what they do.

I hope she doesn’t die before that extra bank holiday, we’ve factored it in plus the extra day off school to various plans.

 

[klang]

I hope she doesn’t die before that extra bank holiday, we’ve factored it in plus the extra day off school to various plans.

tbh it's a win-win.

 

[Artaxerxes]

When people talk about how we didn’t wear masks for flu as a justification for dropping them for covid. Does it cross your mind that maybe we should wear masks to prevent the spread of flu?

Some people like to compare the death figures for covid to previous years’ death figures for flu as some kind of gotcha because people have taken notice of covid and apparently didn’t care about flu deaths. Non pharmaceutical measures for covid have wiped out some strains of flu altogether, these measures have worked on flu as well.

Why is wearing a mask in an enclosed or crowded public space such a difficult thing to accept? Harder to accept than 1000 preventable deaths a week, two years in?

Autumn before covid someone rocked up to the office with a clear cold and you could watch it filter through and hit people over the course of the week.

Absolute fucking insanity people say it’s just a cold, don’t know about you but as I get older colds are more and more horrific to deal with. They make my sinuses hurt like bastards

 

[existentialist]

Autumn before covid someone rocked up to the office with a clear cold and you could watch it filter through and hit people over the course of the week.

Absolute fucking insanity people say it’s just a cold, don’t know about you but as I get older colds are more and more horrific to deal with. They make my sinuses hurt like bastards

Even a comparatively "mild" cold can be horrible and debilitating. We may have been used to just putting up with it up until now, but - from a logical point of view at least - the idea of mildly inconveniencing ourselves by wearing a mask, or taking other moderate measures, to avoid spreading it seems perfectly sensible. I can see how lockdowns and isolation would be disproportionate for a typical cold, and perhaps even for the less virulent 'flu strains, but if it's just about sticking a mask on or WFH for a few days, rather than that awful presenteeism and Lemsip-advert "treat the symptoms and carry on regardless" mindset, I'm all for it.

And not just to protect ourselves as individuals, but to protect those we come into contact with...although I realise that's a pretty unfashionable view, at least as far as our political lords and masters are concerned.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

although I realise that's a pretty unfashionable view, at least as far as our political lords and masters are concerned.

and employers who regard being off sick as a serious disciplinary offence...

 

[pbsmooth]

When people talk about how we didn’t wear masks for flu as a justification for dropping them for covid. Does it cross your mind that maybe we should wear masks to prevent the spread of flu?

Some people like to compare the death figures for covid to previous years’ death figures for flu as some kind of gotcha because people have taken notice of covid and apparently didn’t care about flu deaths. Non pharmaceutical measures for covid have wiped out some strains of flu altogether, these measures have worked on flu as well.

Why is wearing a mask in an enclosed or crowded public space such a difficult thing to accept? Harder to accept than 1000 preventable deaths a week, two years in?

In a similar vein, the idea that just wearing masks instantly prevents all these deaths is also an oversimplification. Reduces the spread but doesn't stop it. So "1000 preventable deaths" is emotive and untrue.

 

[existentialist]

In a similar vein, the idea that just wearing masks instantly prevents all these deaths is also an oversimplification. Reduces the spread but doesn't stop it. So "1000 preventable deaths" is emotive and untrue.

Now we're getting into semantics. I'm sure you wouldn't dispute that mask-wearing at least reduces the risks of infection?

 

[pbsmooth]

of course. but they're not 100% - i.e. 1000s of prevantable deaths due to simply people not wearing masks isn't true.

I think the idea that always wearing a mask in busy places is 'no big deal' isn't true. constantly wearing them in clubs, concerts, restuarants, busy streets, parks etc., where does it stop? just not realistic. and ship has sailed now anyway, thousands of people attending events already. the key is vaccinations. if you want to wear a mask, fine, and I wear one on the tube, but the idea it should still be more prevalent I don't agree with.

 

[l'Otters]

Spot the selfish man-babies…

 

[existentialist]

of course. but they're not 100% - i.e. 1000s of prevantable deaths due to simply people not wearing masks isn't true.

I think the idea that always wearing a mask in busy places is 'no big deal' isn't true. constantly wearing them in clubs, concerts, restuarants, busy streets, parks etc., where does it stop? just not realistic. and ship has sailed now anyway, thousands of people attending events already. the key is vaccinations. if you want to wear a mask, fine, and I wear one on the tube, but the idea it should still be more prevalent I don't agree with.

Nobody's saying they're 100% - that's a straw man argument.

And I don't think people are arguing that it should be more prevalent - just that we shouldn't simply throw up our hands and abandon everything in the name of some political dead cat.