Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier

[Badger Kitten]

Yeah but, yeah but, BK - compare Gosling's initial seeming stance to this of NG:



but scratch the surface, and there's underlying clearer anti-semitism if you compare this ^ with the NG quote in my last post.

From the same American tour last November, NG goes on to say:



Charming.

Quotes from his personal blog btw.

I think he is anti-semitic - the religious drivel about Jews denying Christ and being cast away from God and end times shows that. I was just not sure if he went as far as his fellow-board member and campaigner, Nick Kollerstrom, the Holocaust-denier research fellow at UCL.

 

[cesare]

Most of the Irish didn't agree with the practices of the IRA, yet it's still perfectly acceptable to describe those who did actively support them as "Irish Terrorists'.

No. No, it's not.

 

[cesare]

I think he is anti-semitic - the religious drivel about Jews denying Christ and being cast away from God and end times shows that. I was just not sure if he went as far as his fellow-board member and campaigner, Nick Kollerstrom, the Holocaust-denier research fellow at UCL.

Yep. Perhaps his position will make become more overt over time.

 

[Lock&Light]

No. No, it's not.

Perhaps you'd like to explain why you think not?

 

[cesare]

Perhaps you'd like to explain why you think not?

1) Not all of those 'actively supporting' the IRA were Irish.

2) 'Active support' doesn't necessarily mean acts of terrorism

3) How do you know that all the actual 'terrorists' were Irish?

 

[Lock&Light]

1) Not all of those 'actively supporting' the IRA were Irish.

2) 'Active support' doesn't necessarily mean acts of terrorism

3) How do you know that all the actual 'terrorists' were Irish?

1. Perhaps it wasn't as clear as it could have been, though I personally think it's obvious that I was talking about the Irish.

2. Active support for terrorism is tantamount to being a terrorist, IMO.

3. See 1.

 

[Aldebaran]

What L&L is trying to say in my reading is that every Muslim is in fact an Islamic Terrorist.

salaam.

 

[Lock&Light]

What L&L is trying to say in my reading is that every Muslim is in fact an Islamic Terrorist.

salaam.

That is proof positive of your idiocy.

 

[Badger Kitten]

What L&L is trying to say in my reading is that every Muslim is in fact an Islamic Terrorist.

salaam.

I am pretty sure he is not saying that at all, but I can see that you are reading it that way.

A terrorist saying he is acting in the name of Islam ( which some do - see the martyrdom videos of the alleged airline plotters in which they make it very clear) - but that is not the same as saying all Muslims are terrorists.

I am sure that if you are a Muslim it is horrible to see what some people will do in the name of Islam - and they are not representative of Muslims nor are their actions halal - but nonetheless, they do state Islam as their justification.

I take the point about Christian terrorists not being the term used for abortion-clinic-bombers, but it does not take away from the fact that there are terrorists who say they are inspired to attack int he name of Allah, to avenge the sufferings of the Ummah, and that they expect to go to paradise for their actions. Yes - it's haram. But they don't think it is.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Anyway, this is all off topic in a thread about the holocaust-denying antics of a 9/11 & 7/7 ''Truth'' loon who works at UCL as a research fellow and cites his PhD in holocaust-denying essays.

 

[Aldebaran]

I am sure that if you are a Muslim it is horrible to see what some people will do in the name of Islam - and they are not representative of Muslims nor are their actions halal - but nonetheless, they do state Islam as their justification.

They can't do it "in the name of Islam". It is as impossible as acting "in the name of God"

I take the point about Christian terrorists not being the term used for abortion-clinic-bombers, but it does not take away from the fact that there are terrorists who say they are inspired to attack int he name of Allah, to avenge the sufferings of the Ummah, and that they expect to go to paradise for their actions.

So? If kill someone tomorrow and claim to act in the name of the Spaghetti Monster that would have the same value and credibility, but you would not take me serious, would you.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Anyway, this is all off topic in a thread about the holocaust-denying antics of a 9/11 & 7/7 ''Truth'' loon who works at UCL as a research fellow and cites his PhD in holocaust-denying essays.

Did someone contact the Media and all known student organizations about it?

salaam.

 

[Lock&Light]

but you would not take me serious, would you.

If you found eighteen companions willing to help you crash some planes then you would be taken seriously.

 

[ViolentPanda]

1) Not all of those 'actively supporting' the IRA were Irish.

2) 'Active support' doesn't necessarily mean acts of terrorism

3) How do you know that all the actual 'terrorists' were Irish?

History tells us that quite a few OIRA and PIRA members were "plastic paddies", including a certain John Stevenson, aka Sean Macstiofain.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you found eighteen companions willing to help you crash some planes then you would be taken seriously.

I don't think you would take it serious that we were acting the name of the Spaghetti Monster.

salaam.

 

[cesare]

History tells us that quite a few OIRA and PIRA members were "plastic paddies", including a certain John Stevenson, aka Sean Macstiofain.

Yeah I was thinking of the plastics, and the different 'terrorist' organisations etc. Tis another example of a convenient label innit.

 

[Lock&Light]

I don't think you would take it serious that we were acting the name of the Spaghetti Monster.

I have as much belief in the existence of the Spaghetti Monster as I have in the existence of Allah. (or God, or any other Sky Pixie)

 

[Badger Kitten]

I don't think you would take it serious that we were acting the name of the Spaghetti Monster.

salaam.

What do you suggest terrorists who say things like this are called?

In one video, Abdul Ahmed Ali refers to Osama Bin Laden's warnings to the West.


Ali said: "Sheikh Osama warned you many times to leave our lands or you will be destroyed, and now the time has come for you to be destroyed.

"You have nothing but to expect that floods of martyr operations, volcanoes of anger and revenge and raping among your capital and yet taste that what you have made us taste for a long time and now you have bear the fruits that you have sown."

He condemned the British public for "showing more care and concern for animals than you do for the Muslim Ummah".


He added: "Stop meddling in our affairs and we will leave you alone, otherwise expect floods of martyr operations against you and we will take our revenge and anger, ripping amongst your people and scattering the people and your body parts and the people's body parts responsible for these wars and oppression decorating the streets."

The jury was also shown an extract featuring defendant Umar Islam wearing a traditional Islamic headscarf and sitting in front of a black flag covered with Arabic writing.

He dismissed the suggestion that any of the victims of bombings would be "innocent" because British citizens had paid taxes which funded the Army.

"Most of you are too busy watching Home and Away and EastEnders, complaining about the World Cup and drinking alcohol, too busy to care. I know because I come from that," he said in the video.

He added: "You call us terrorists but you can see we don't mind that if you call us terrorists 'cos we will keep on terrorising you until you learn your lesson.

"We love to die in the path of Allah."

In another extract he said: "This is revenge for the actions of the USA in Muslim lands and their accomplices, such as the British and the Jews.

"Now without doubt your dead are in hellfire, while the Muslims that die due to your acts will be in paradise.

"Martyrdom operations upon martyrdom operations will keep on raining on these kuffars (non-believers) until they release us and leave our lands."

Referring to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Islam said: "I say to you disbelievers that as you bomb, you will be bombed. As you kill, you will be killed.

"And if you want to kill our women and children then the same thing will happen to you. This is not a joke."

 

[fogbat]

I don't think you would take it serious that we were acting the name of the Spaghetti Monster.

salaam.

*confiscates Aldebaran's spaghetti tongs as potential weapons of mass destruction*
*eyes meatballs hungrily*

 

[Badger Kitten]

Seriously, how do you think we should describe them?

In another clip, Mr Ali said: “I’m doing this . . . to punish and to humiliate the kuffar [unbeliever], to teach them a lesson that they will never forget. It’s to tell them that we Muslim people have pride, our people of Allah, the people of Islam, we are brave. We are not cowards. Enough is enough.”

He added: “Sheikh Osama [bin Laden] warned you many times to leave our lands or you will be destroyed and now the time has come for you to be destroyed.”

In the clip of Mr Savant he said: “All Muslims take heed, remove yourself from the grasp of the kuffar before you are counted as one of them. Do not be content with your council houses and businesses and Western lifestyle.”

In a clip of Mr Khan he said: “We will rain upon you such a terror and destruction that you will never feel peace and security. There will be floods of martyrdom operations and bombs falling through your lands. There will be daily torment in this world.”

Most people are perfectly aware that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is obvious that these men are Muslim and see themselves as acting in the name of Allah and Islam for the Ummah.

So - that's why they get called '' Islamic terrorists'' or ''Islamist terrorists''

Because they cite Islam as their rationale for terrorism.

It does not mean that everyone who follows Islam is a terrorist. Obviously. And nobody is saying that.

And yes, we all know that Islam does not condone this sort of thing but it doesn't actually stop these men saying it does, and acting according to their beliefs, which they say are Islamic beliefs and they consider themselves to be shahid.

 

[fela fan]

Well you might not like it fela, but as Miguel de Cervantes remarked, "tell me what company you keep, and I'll tell you what you are." The issues of racism and sexism are clearly linked to holocaust deniers and/or far right/facism and those that associate themselves with them on common ground, such as certain conspiracy theories, may find themselves associated with racism and sexism as well - even if it's just on a gradual influence basis. Today's far right aren't all overt, there's a needle like insidiousness that isn't always obvious.




It's a pity you don't care, but I'm glad you want no truck with him.

And if they do find themselves associated with racism and/or facism, and they're nothing of the sort, then what does that say about the people that have got it so categorically wrong?

I repeat, words like 'conspiraloonery' have higher functions than mere word meanings.

And the reason i said i didn't care is that i find it amusing and preposterous how people can get so worked up about such weird characters as this man, while accepting the likes of bush or blair as leaders, indeed, re-electing such butchers of humanity.

What the man of this thread has done is nowhere near as criminal as the leaders of the US or UK. Yet just look at the witchhunt going on. It's unreal.

Burn the fucking witch. How dare they have the wrong opinion.

 

[Aldebaran]

What do you suggest terrorists who say things like this are called?

Lunatics.

Edit: Overlooked this

Because they cite Islam as their rationale for terrorism.

?
Care to give actual references to were they could demonstrate that Islam condones, let alone incites people to say/do all this?

salaam.

 

[fela fan]

I wonder how these people, who clearly think of themselves as being on the side of the angels and truth, can be so incredibly blind to what they are doing and who they are associating with?

Because unfortunately, it's not just a few fruitloops.

It has a pernicious effect...

You give the impression of being like the people you express such disdain for. You post up judgment after judgment. You say categorically what other people think and believe. How do you know? You only base your own opinions on your own reactions. You show yourself to be really quite subjective.

I mean, using words like 'incredibly' and 'blind', well, it's pretty emotive language isn't it?

And just because a quarter of polled people have the 'wrong' opinion according to you, you label them 'fruitloops'...

I also get the impression that you're in a media job. Fuck that. No wonder the media in britain are so biased and fucked up.

You're actually quite dangerous.

 

[cesare]

And if they do find themselves associated with racism and/or facism, and they're nothing of the sort, then what does that say about the people that have got it so categorically wrong?

I repeat, words like 'conspiraloonery' have higher functions than mere word meanings.

And the reason i said i didn't care is that i find it amusing and preposterous how people can get so worked up about such weird characters as this man, while accepting the likes of bush or blair as leaders, indeed, re-electing such butchers of humanity.

What the man of this thread has done is nowhere near as criminal as the leaders of the US or UK. Yet just look at the witchhunt going on. It's unreal.

Burn the fucking witch. How dare they have the wrong opinion.

And sexism.

If people spend a lot of time in the company of influential people with those sort of views, there's a possibility that they will start to accept those views even if on a subliminal basis, unless they are very strong in their own right, alert and not easily influenced.

'Weird characters' - some of these people are (or were) in positions of power and influence e.g. Irving and Kollerstrom.

As for Bush and Blair, as you say, they were elected - they influenced the populace. However, this thread isn't about Bush and Blair, is it?

 

[fela fan]

edited: can't even use apostrophes properly

What a fucking crime that is. The jails would be full to overflowing if everybody was punished for this appalling act.

 

[fela fan]

And sexism.

If people spend a lot of time in the company of influential people with those sort of views, there's a possibility that they will start to accept those views even if on a subliminal basis, unless they are very strong in their own right, alert and not easily influenced.

'Weird characters' - some of these people are (or were) in positions of power and influence e.g. Irving and Kollerstrom.

As for Bush and Blair, as you say, they were elected - they influenced the populace. However, this thread isn't about Bush and Blair, is it?

So cesare, what about propaganda?

Most people will listen to a holocaust denier, and just think of them as batty or misdirected.

Meanwhile those with the real power continue to rape the world, yet be accepted for who they are. Thanks to the appalling mainstream media.

This batty man is just that. But the likes of blair and bush are absolute total criminals, with the blood of thousands on their hands, yet threads like this get the two mixed up.

Who’s listening to who?

 

[Badger Kitten]

Lunatics.

Edit: Overlooked this



?
Care to give actual references to were they could demonstrate that Islam condones, let alone incites people to say/do all this?

salaam.

They are the ones saying it, not me.
They are also renouncing what they said, some of them. Which I fully support.

 

[cesare]

So cesare, what about propaganda?

Most people will listen to a holocaust denier, and just think of them as batty or misdirected.

Meanwhile those with the real power continue to rape the world, yet be accepted for who they are. Thanks to the appalling mainstream media.

This batty man is just that. But the likes of blair and bush are absolute total criminals, with the blood of thousands on their hands, yet threads like this get the two mixed up.

Who’s listening to who?

If this thread was about Bush and Blair - you might have a point. But as it isn't, tis all a bit surplus. We know about bloody Bush and Blair.

 

[tarannau]

S

Meanwhile those with the real power continue to rape the world, yet be accepted for who they are. Thanks to the appalling mainstream media.

This batty man is just that. But the likes of blair and bush are absolute total criminals, with the blood of thousands on their hands, yet threads like this get the two mixed up.

Christ, and you have the barefaced cheek to talk about the 'emotive' language of others. That post reads like the Ladybird book for patronising moralising simpletons.

People are more than capable of interpreting the mainstream media for themselves you know. And they probably wouldn't have to resort to archaic and frankly insulting uses of language like 'batty man' either. It just goes to show how unperceptive and ludicrously out of touch you are with the UK populace- and there you are with the temerity to effectively lecture others.

Wind your neck in and stop acting like such a know it all pillock.

 

[Badger Kitten]

You give the impression of being like the people you express such disdain for. You post up judgment after judgment. You say categorically what other people think and believe. How do you know? You only base your own opinions on your own reactions. You show yourself to be really quite subjective.

I mean, using words like 'incredibly' and 'blind', well, it's pretty emotive language isn't it?

And just because a quarter of polled people have the 'wrong' opinion according to you, you label them 'fruitloops'...

I also get the impression that you're in a media job. Fuck that. No wonder the media in britain are so biased and fucked up.

You're actually quite dangerous.

Oh, for heaven's sake.

He is a holocaust denier, and proof has been shown of this. This not a thread about Bush and Blair, neither of whom I am a fan of, so quit throwing straw about. It's silly.

As to me being quite dangerous, you're pretty laughably misinformed on that score as well