Claudy bomb - the priest that got away with murder

[trashpony]

please expand on this... you are suggesting I am in some way sticking up for the CC, are you?

No, I didn't mean that. I meant that you obviously don't believe the report at all and I'm wondering why not. Sorry, wasn't very clear

 

[ViolentPanda]

This analysis I have absolutely no problem in accepting. Some of your extrapolations however, I find less than convincing. I have no illusions about the capabilities of british Intelligence, their MO, nor indeed their complete lack of what us mortals might term a 'moral' compass - ie they couldn't give a fuck who gets hurt or killed providing the right pieces are moved on their strategic chessboard. If it suited them they could (and would) arrange bombings never mind cover them up.

That's pretty much in the "nature" of all intelligence agencies, however hard they try to pretend otherwise. Their job is to perpetuate the interests of the state at any price.

As an aside, I think they are playing just such a long-term game with the Jihadi's at the minute... give 'em enough rope etc. I think we can expect a monumental 'fuck-up' like Omagh sometime, maybe sooner than we think.

It's entirely possible, especially given that British intelligence services have of necessity had to "sub-contract" their infiltration/intel-gathering while they attempt to bring British Muslim field agents "on-stream". Intelligence is contingent at the best of times. Having an extended reporting chain makes cock-ups more likely.

The main issues I have here, that I find it incredible are...

1. That the RUC SB (and indeed the RUC in general) were willing participants in this and none of them ever was tempted to blow the gaffe on this.

I don't find it "incredible", merely unlikely, but you do need to look at the issue from the perspective of your putative SB big-mouth/whistleblower: Who's he going to talk to? His job will, by it's very nature, have made him secretive and close-mouthed. The people he's most likely to talk to are his co-workers.

2. That Conway buckled wiothouit being presented with any evidence.

That's going to depend on the kind of person Conway is, surely? Were his actions out of character? I'm not over-informed about him

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3. That if Chesney was such a potentially dangerous and embarrassing (for the Church) figure , why did they only move him a few miles away to Derry - which was awash with 'on the run republicans' at the time? Why not a nice job with the missions in Africa or South America, or at least somewhere far away like Waterford.

Equally, why would they move him far away without warning, and risk provoking questions?

4. Where is the evidence (rather than gossip) against Chesney?

For example... one witness apparently claims to have seen Chesney 'running away' from the car-bomb. I read a letter in the irish News yesterday from some fella claiming that Chesney was only out of hospital (afetr a lengthy stay) and was barely able to walk at the time. It cannot be rocket science to check this out, can it?

There are other questions too.

As far as more evidence is concerned, it's a case of "wait and see" what turns up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Like the Birmingham 6 had traces of explosives on their hands?

False positive, pointed up after it was realised that they'd been playing cards that same day. Playing cards are still generally sealed with a nitro-cellulose lacquer. Nitro-cellulose is a main constituent of gun cotton, an explosive propellant, and gave (modern tests are somewhat more discerning) the same "positive" as other nitrate-based explosives.

What was found in Chesney's boot could have been ammonium nitrate fertiliser residue. Was he a keen gardener, at all?

 

[LiamO]

It's entirely possible, especially given that British intelligence services have of necessity had to "sub-contract" their infiltration/intel-gathering while they attempt to bring British Muslim field agents "on-stream". Intelligence is contingent at the best of times. Having an extended reporting chain makes cock-ups more likely.
QUOTE]

Sorry Panda. Bit of a misunderstanding here... when I used the term Jihadi's I was referring to home-grown, Irish, holy-warriors (Conto's & Rira) not british-based Islamists

 

[LiamO]

Equally, why would they move him far away without warning, and risk provoking questions?

catholic priests get moved all the time on the whim of bishops. as far as I know they do not have a Union to act on their behalf

 

[Idris2002]

I shall try and remember which pol's memoir it was that I read about the high levels of testosterone spilling around The Dail, and causing people to fantasise about driving the brits out.

There was one FF TD who said in the Dail, 'Tis guns we want, BAGS OF GUNS'.

He did not seek reelection at the next hustings.

 

[likesfish]

The british did reinforce the area around derry even so far as to arm some helicopters to deter even the most hot headed idiots in the irish goverment to try anything. most irish army veterans of the time thought it was unworkable insane fantasy of a nutter certainly would'nt have helped anyone. considering the british had tanks and supersonic jet planes any conflict would have been one sided

 

[Idris2002]

The british did reinforce the area around derry even so far as to arm some helicopters to deter even the most hot headed idiots in the irish goverment to try anything. most irish army veterans of the time thought it was unworkable insane fantasy of a nutter certainly would'nt have helped anyone. considering the british had tanks and supersonic jet planes any conflict would have been one sided

Uh-huh, and you could bet the vast majority knew it. The Free State Army has always been there for internal security - but that's a whole other thread.

 

[LiamO]

My mate brought my attention to a piece on Fr Chesney in the Irish News a few weeks back, written by Shane Paul O’Doherty.

SPOD was an experienced, and active, IRA Volunteer who renounced violence whilst in Jail in the 1980’s and wrote a (pretty highly detailed) book on his experiences as a full-time guerilla. This early adoption of his personal Peace Process brought him into conflict with, and made him a hate-figure for, many of his former comrades.

Anyways, he was the Explosives Officer for Derry City. He also spent much of his time developing and maintaining arms dumps and safe houses in Derry’s hinterland in the Inishowen peninsula in County Donegal (where Fr Chesney had been moved to).

He maintains it is ‘inconceivable’ that if Fr Chesney was an IRA Volunteer, or even a supporter, that he would not have met him during this period. He says he never even heard of him. He has asked around and can find no-one within the serried (and varied) ranks of former Republican activists who believes Chesney was a volunteer, much less the local head honcho in south Derry.

He points out that the only ‘evidence’ against this man is an RUC Special Branch file. This was the time of Internment without trial, when Long Kesh was full of mystified Internees with only the most spurious of connections to matters Republican – banged up on nothing more than a’ ‘incriminating’ RUC SB file.

From what I can see the Ombudsman has issued a report saying 'this fella is obviously guilty as fuck - and we would appreciate it if members of the public could provide us with some evidence' - is this not something of an arseways methodology? Should the proof not come before the pronunciation of guilt?