What's wrong with Labour

[redsquirrel]

Given the ruthless way Keith "cleansed" the party post-Corbyn, is anyone really surprised?

Welcome to NEW Labour.

I'm not surprised by the vindictiveness, but I'm slightly surprised by the stupidity of it. New Labour had the sense to let the left rebel on votes like this - it gave the party the broad church appeal and did not really change anything. Starmer is such a thick control freak he does not have that confidence. Trying to intimidate MPs might work in the short term but I can see it breeding resentment further down the road.

 

[Maggot]

FFS, reducing child poverty should be a priority for any Labour government.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Reckon this could backfire on Starmer. Will be interesting to get the full reaction tomorrow.

 

[two sheds]

Corbyn made a tactical mistake he should have voted for retaining the cap, then Starmer wouldn't have been able to resist voting against.

 

[LakieLady]

FFS, reducing child poverty should be a priority for any Labour government.

And as it clearly isn't, I find myself asking what the point of them is?

 

[The39thStep]

And as it clearly isn't, I find myself asking what the point of them is?

If we can coax them out there's a few one true path Labour posters on here who should be able to have a go at answering that question.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

waffle waffle fiscal responsibility waffle waffle

meh

 

[Elpenor]

Sir Kid Starver living up to his name

 

[Elpenor]

Corbyn made a tactical mistake he should have voted for retaining the cap, then Starmer wouldn't have been able to resist voting against.

Or he could have had his fingers crossed

 

[Smokeandsteam]

If we can coax them out there's a few one true path Labour posters on here who should be able to have a go at answering that question.

Let’s hope that appear soon. They should also have a go at explaining this shite from Milburn.


Long-term sick should be forced to seek work, says Labour adviser

Long-term sick should be forced to seek work, says Labour adviser

Alan Milburn called for fundamental reform of a ‘crazy’ benefits system, with getting people back to the work the ‘only route’ to faster growth

www.thetimes.com

 

[SpookyFrank]

One more for the book

Saw my sister the other day, she's 100% team Starmer. I told her, you just watch what he does and then tell me again a year from now what a great guy he is. Turns out it didn't take a year, but less than a week.

What a vicious, weak little turd of a man he is.

 

[belboid]

Apparently a six month suspension, according to Diane who would have joined them had she been present.

as would Rosie Duffield (!) had she not got covid.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I wonder whether MPs will be suspended for (eg) liking tweets soon.

That's what they did Faiza Shaheen for. OK so she wasn't an MP, but she would have been a dead cert to win her seat if Labour hadn't kicked her out.

 

[SpookyFrank]

as would Rosie Duffield (!) had she not got covid.

My thoughts and prayers are with covid at this difficult time.

 

[ska invita]

Despite four years of purging and expulsions I'm still shocked.
What a choice for the 7 now....

 

[DotCommunist]

They were briefing it as a test for starmers 'virility' a couple of days ago so I could see it coming, plus they fucking hate the SNP. 7. Not even enough to form a fellowship of the ring.

 

[planetgeli]

If we can coax them out there's a few one true path Labour posters on here who should be able to have a go at answering that question.

I'll do it for them. Here.

"I understand the strength of feeling that people have expressed. But they need to put it in the context of the Government's long-term aim of providing work for people rather than welfare, and to have a reformed and modernised welfare system that is fair and efficient," he said.
So there's your explanation. Oh, it's Clive Soley, Chairman of the PLP - in December 1997. Responding to this.

BBC News | UK | Blair suffers in benefits revolt

Because that's what you vote for, voting Labour. It's not like people weren't warned. That quote is from 27 years ago, from a Party that has only moved rightward. What did you expect? The only difference is Starmer being a bigger cunt than Blair and deciding to sideline 7 MPs. Because he can. And because he's a cunt.

How is that 'reformed and modernized' welfare system going?

Wankers.

 

[Karl Masks]

apparently the benefit cap is, sigh, popular.

Public support retaining the two-child benefit limit as Starmer gears up for first rebellion | YouGov

Six in ten Britons support the cap being kept, but 18-24 year olds tend to believe it should be abolished

yougov.co.uk

 

[planetgeli]

apparently the benefit cap is, sigh, popular.

Public support retaining the two-child benefit limit as Starmer gears up for first rebellion | YouGov

Six in ten Britons support the cap being kept, but 18-24 year olds tend to believe it should be abolished

yougov.co.uk

Who gives a shit? When you've had decades of the State going "This is what you think, this is what you think, this is what you think. Now, what do you think?"

You lead, change and create by ideology, not opinion polls and focus groups.

 

[Knotted]

I'm not surprised by the vindictiveness, but I'm slightly surprised by the stupidity of it. New Labour had the sense to let the left rebel on votes like this - it gave the party the broad church appeal and did not really change anything. Starmer is such a thick control freak he does not have that confidence. Trying to intimidate MPs might work in the short term but I can see it breeding resentment further down the road.

I think the big donors and the media moguls want Starmer to ensure that the Corbyn episode never happens again. Plus centrist Labour instinctively loath the left and their political outlooks and more importantly careers are under constant (slim) threat from a Labour left insurgency. It should also be understood that Starmer's power and mandate is brittle and needs constant displays of "strength". It's a managerial project not a project that has mass popular support.

He/they made this calculation from the beginning. They were going to eliminate the Labour left in all its forms and I think they are well aware that this means narrowing their electoral base and even the potential for a new (fringe) ex-Labour party. But that's their calculation. I don't think its stupid, but really rather fragile.

 

[Elpenor]

Who gives a shit? When you've had decades of the State going "This is what you think, this is what you think, this is what you think. Now, what do you think?"

You lead, change and create by ideology, not opinion polls and focus groups.

I’m sure there are polls and focus groups that support capital punishment so perhaps we can expect that from Starmer too

Would solve the full prisons problem too, this policy is practically writing itself

 

[DotCommunist]

its not like they'd back down on it if polling was the other way. over 80% want water nationalised and have done for over a decade of polling and yet...

 

[ska invita]

I think the big donors and the media moguls want Starmer to ensure that the Corbyn episode never happens again. Plus centrist Labour instinctively loath the left and their political outlooks and more importantly careers are under constant (slim) threat from a Labour left insurgency. It should also be understood that Starmer's power and mandate is brittle and needs constant displays of "strength". It's a managerial project not a project that has mass popular support.

He/they made this calculation from the beginning. They were going to eliminate the Labour left in all its forms and I think they are well aware that this means narrowing their electoral base and even the potential for a new (fringe) ex-Labour party. But that's their calculation. I don't think its stupid, but really rather fragile.

Well said... Lifelong stay in Labour and change it from the insiders are almost all gone....a new party becomes more inevitable and the Labour right would be thrilled, even if the unions abandon the Labour ship.

Surely the 7 can't wait 6 months and beg forgiveness

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think the big donors and the media moguls want Starmer to ensure that the Corbyn episode never happens again. Plus centrist Labour instinctively loath the left and their political outlooks and more importantly careers are under constant (slim) threat from a Labour left insurgency. It should also be understood that Starmer's power and mandate is brittle and needs constant displays of "strength". It's a managerial project not a project that has mass popular support.

He/they made this calculation from the beginning. They were going to eliminate the Labour left in all its forms and I think they are well aware that this means narrowing their electoral base and even the potential for a new (fringe) ex-Labour party. But that's their calculation. I don't think its stupid, but really rather fragile.

Probably, but as Minister after Minister warns about the 'rise of populism' - and the dire consequences of a failed Labour Government - expunging any diversity of political opinion and shearing off the MP's who still (unfortunately in my opinion) act as a pole of attraction for sections of the left is utterly politically stupid. Even Blair, as Red Squirrel noted above, knew that and largely left them to it.

Personally, I don't believe Corbyn and the 7 have either the political analyisis or ideological commitment to develop an organisation that could develop the popular set of left/green politics that are now needed, but Starmer seems determined to create the conditions for others who might and who the labour left could work with.

Starmer - beyond the political class/centrist commentariat media puff about how disciplined, hard working and clever he is - has revealed yet again that politically he's both toxic and stupid.

 

[The39thStep]

Just asking to be suspended

 

[Knotted]

Probably, but as Minister after Minister warns about the 'rise of populism' - and the dire consequences of a failed Labour Government - expunging any diversity of political opinion and shearing off the MP's who still (unfortunately in my opinion) act as a pole of attraction for sections of the left is utterly politically stupid. Even Blair, as Red Squirrel noted above, knew that and largely left them to it.

Personally, I don't believe Corbyn and the 7 have either the political analyisis or ideological commitment to develop an organisation that could develop the popular set of left/green politics that are now needed, but Starmer seems determined to create the conditions for others who might and who the labour left could work with.

Starmer - beyond the political class/centrist commentariat media puff about how disciplined, hard working and clever he is - has revealed yet again that politically he's both toxic and stupid.

I think Starmer and the Labour right in general are ideologically very weak and they know it, which is the main difference with Blair (at least the knowing it part). And to be honest Blair underestimated the potential of the Labour left. We all did.

I don't think it matters for the time being if the suspended MPs have the political wherewithal to form a party, I think it's going to be forced on them and with MPs they will be the natural left alternative to Labour especially for disgruntled trade unions.

 

[Karl Masks]

Sadly, not Keir starmer.

Look I agree with you. No one here is going to advocate for this vile counter productive shit. I just think the degree of support is quite something. Something bad, tbc.