British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[gentlegreen]

Her biggest complaint seems to be ISIS not being pure enough.

What a vile, heartless brat.

 

[eoin_k]

[...]
Not that prosecution seems very likely as as far as we know she hasn't committed any crime.
[...]
Kids that run away from home at 15 usually get into some fucked up stuff, see some things, get involved with unsavoury people and probably commit crimes too. Seems like we could avoid rushing to judgement.

SpackleFrog selctively edited their post, so I thought might be worth putting it in a different light. The girl got in with a bad crowd as a teenage. We've seen it all before, probably done something similar-a non-story.

 

[SpackleFrog]

A death cult who wishes death on all non-believers and is prepared to carry it out and they themselves have no fear of death. In fact they welcome it as it will speed their process to glorious afterlife.

As for the caveat I've never been in a death cult so I don't know how many actually await death with glee so we can only go on what they say.

Did everyone who lived in the former caliphate genuinely believe all these things and act on those beliefs?

What distinguishes this girl from members of a suicide cult here or members of the Westboro Baptist church in the US?

 

[eoin_k]

Did everyone who lived in the former caliphate genuinely believe all these things and act on those beliefs?

What distinguishes this girl from members of a suicide cult here or members of the Westboro Baptist church in the US?

Most of them didn't move there specifically to join it and then tell a journalist with the Times, just the other day, that they had no regrets, even when they saw the heads piling up in the litter bins.

 

[SpackleFrog]

SpackleFrog selctively edited their post, so I thought might be worth putting it in a different light. The girl got in with a bad crowd as a teenage. We've seen it all before, probably done something similar-a non-story.

If you feel that's a selective edit why not just post the whole thing? eoin_k

I'm fine with sitting next to her on the tube, just for the record. I don't want to sit next to her on the tube, she's from London, but then you mostly have to sit next to London types on the tube.

This seems a non story as a) Govt isn't going to pay travel costs unless she gets to a consulate and b) if she does she'll be flown back to Britain and go through prosecution/social services as applicable.

Not that prosecution seems very likely as as far as we know she hasn't committed any crime.

Kids that run away from home at 15 usually get into some fucked up stuff, see some things, get involved with unsavoury people and probably commit crimes too. Seems like we could avoid rushing to judgement.

My point was not that "we've seen it all before, probably done something similar". I doubt a high proportion of Urbs ran away from home (for more than a week at least) at 15. When that happens, kids are running away from something and they usually end up being preyed upon or exploited in some way.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Religious and minority group massacres, forced conversion, and expulsion

See also: Arabization, Genocide of Christians by ISIL, Genocide of Shias by ISIL, and Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL
Sexual violence and slavery
Further information: Sexual violence in the Iraqi insurgency and Slavery in 21st-century Islamism
See also: Islamic views on slavery, Ma malakat aymanukum, Raptio, and Wartime sexual violence
Destruction of cultural and religious heritage
Main article: Destruction of cultural heritage by ISIL


I'm pretty sure that's a good starting point for getting the murder of LGBT people beheading aid workers and doctors etc etc

This is not a definition.

 

[8ball]

Rehabilitation should be attempted for sure.

Maybe if she could get a big cannon and fire herself at the UK, we can put up a net when we get round to it.

 

[weepiper]

What a vile, heartless brat.

She's had two babies die in the last three months and she's due to give birth any day, but let's not imagine that her grief and her hormones might be clouding her judgement about anything right now

 

[DotCommunist]

This is not a definition.

they literally want to bring about the end times through enough war and slaughter. Now, yes some loonier ends of american xtian ideology have similar eschatology but crucially they haven't actually had a square go at it. Yet.

 

[Teaboy]

Alright fair enough, but then what is your point about the 'damning' video? Why did you respond to me in the first place?

I responded to you because you said you'd have no problem sitting next to her on the tube and really she's just like anyone else.

She's spent several years being indoctrinated by a cult who have shown nothing but extreme brutality to anyone who does not adhere. Followers of the same cult have already carried out numerous attacks on civilians across the globe but particularly in Europe, it is the stated aim of the cult to carry out many more of these acts. She is not like anyone else and should she get back to the UK she should get rehabilitation but she should also be carefully watched until because she is clearly a risk.

The video is damning because quite frankly it gave me the creeps. She sounds well and truly indoctrinated.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Most of them didn't move there specifically to join it and then tell a journalist with the Times, just the other day, that they had no regrets, even when they saw the heads piling up in the litter bins.

Let's just take the full passage from the article:

"She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".

"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.

"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.

I think you are misrepresenting what was reported there. Don't you?

Does the full sentence quote about 'what he would have done to a Muslim woman' suggest anything to you?

 

[SpackleFrog]

I responded to you because you said you'd have no problem sitting next to her on the tube and really she's just like anyone else.

She's spent several years being indoctrinated by a cult who have shown nothing but extreme brutality to anyone who does not adhere. Followers of the same cult have already carried out numerous attacks on civilians across the globe but particularly in Europe, it is the stated aim of the cult to carry out many more of these acts. She is not like anyone else and should she get back to the UK she should get rehabilitation but she should also be carefully watched until because she is clearly a risk.

The video is damning because quite frankly it gave me the creeps. She sounds well and truly indoctrinated.

I said I would have no problem because it makes no odds to me whether I'm sat on the tube with her or any other stranger that is quite likely to have some fucked up beliefs and could well be "truly indoctrinated" as you put, thanks for that expert view on indoctrination there.

 

[Athos]

She's had two babies die in the last three months and she's due to give birth any day, but let's not imagine that her grief and her hormones might be clouding her judgement about anything right now

She was a keen and determined supporter of this brutal regime from before the death of her children and her current pregnancy. I'm baffled as to why you're so keen to show compassion to someone who'd e.g. support you being killed for seeking equality for women?

 

[likesfish]

Let's just take the full passage from the article:

"She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".

"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.


"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.

I think you are misrepresenting what was reported there. Don't you?

Does the full sentence quote about 'what he would have done to a Muslim woman' suggest anything to you?

the irony is she's in a prison camp run by non muslims

 

[dylanredefined]

and what are uk values then?

Not death for unislamic activities.

 

[SpackleFrog]

they literally want to bring about the end times through enough war and slaughter. Now, yes some loonier ends of american xtian ideology have similar eschatology but crucially they haven't actually had a square go at it. Yet.

Yeah that's fair and I'm not saying they're not a death cult, just concerned by stuff like this:

She's a clear danger until it can be shown otherwise.

 

[Teaboy]

Did everyone who lived in the former caliphate genuinely believe all these things and act on those beliefs?

I don't know, but from the audio there is nothing to suggest she didn't and indeed doesn't. Given what people from her death cult have done it would probably be best to err on the side of caution, don't you think?

What distinguishes this girl from members of a suicide cult here or members of the Westboro Baptist church in the US?

Suicide cults are a risk to themselves and Westboro are just arseholes who protest a bit. When either start beheading aid workers and journalists, enslaving and raping women and children, driving lorries into Christmas markets and bombing concerts full of teenagers I'll start worrying about them.

I'll flip the question. Why isn't she a risk?

 

[SpackleFrog]

She was a keen and determined supporter of this brutal regime from before the death of her children and her current pregnancy. I'm baffled as to why you're so keen to show compassion to someone who'd e.g. support you being killed for seeking equality for women?

Showing compassion to vulnerable kids who are attracted to Daesh, the far right etc is a key part of the fight to stop Daesh, far right etc recruiting and growing. Don't want to speak for weepiper but it's a good enough reason for me.

 

[eoin_k]

Let's just take the full passage from the article:

"She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".

"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.

"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.

I think you are misrepresenting what was reported there. Don't you?

Does the full sentence quote about 'what he would have done to a Muslim woman' suggest anything to you?

I was reading the subtitles to the interview editor posted, which didn't include all of that, but did include this explanation of why she was unfazed:

"Because you have to remember that these people [ie. Deash], their beliefs are that you kill the non-Muslims but you treat the Muslims good."

This puts a different gloss on things, too.

 

[Teaboy]

Yeah that's fair and I'm not saying they're not a death cult, just concerned by stuff like this:

Because people from her cult have actually carried it out on numerous occasions. There is more than reasonable suspicion that she may wish to do the same.

To repeat, I think she should be allowed back and she should get rehabilitation. I don't think she should come back and lets all pretend the last few years didn't happen.

 

[Athos]

Showing compassion to vulnerable kids who are attracted to Daesh, the far right etc is a key part of the fight to stop Daesh, far right etc recruiting and growing. Don't want to speak for weepiper but it's a good enough reason for me.

I get the idea of getting to vulnerable kids before these arseholes get to turn them. But that time has passed; she's not a kid who's flirting with this ideology, she's an adult who's still committed to it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I don't know, but from the audio there is nothing to suggest she didn't and indeed doesn't. Given what people from her death cult have done it would probably be best to err on the side of caution, don't you think?

Is there anything to suggest she did and does hold those beliefs?

What are you proposing we do, in order to err on the side of caution?

Suicide cults are a risk to themselves and Westboro are just arseholes who protest a bit. When either start beheading aid workers and journalists, enslaving and raping women and children, driving lorries into Christmas markets and bombing concerts full of teenagers I'll start worrying about them.

Themselves and vulnerable people who can be attracted to them. Which could include you, your family, your friends. Westboro might not have committed violent acts but other Christian fundamentalists do - you're applying guilt by association to this girl, why not them too?

I'll flip the question. Why isn't she a risk?

She might be. If you're looking for risk everyone is a potential risk. Especially people you didn't think were a risk.

 

[Teaboy]

Showing compassion to vulnerable kids who are attracted to Daesh, the far right etc is a key part of the fight to stop Daesh, far right etc recruiting and growing. Don't want to speak for weepiper but it's a good enough reason for me.

Yes, I agree. Show her the compassion that she and her lot would never show anyone else. I agree but that's not mutually exclusive with recognizing what she has been through and what that may have turned her into.

I don't think we're that far apart. I just think she's a risk at the moment, it'll be even weirder if she wasn't.

 

[A380]

I get the idea of getting to vulnerable kids before these arseholes get to turn them. But that time has passed; she's not a kid who's flirting with this ideology, she's an adult who's still committed to it.

But only white men can be fully accountable for their actions. Obvs.

 

[dylanredefined]

Let's just take the full passage from the article:

"She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".

"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.

"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.

I think you are misrepresenting what was reported there. Don't you?

Does the full sentence quote about 'what he would have done to a Muslim woman' suggest anything to you?

Anyone not part of her brand of Islam is less than human. Basically the same as any devout follower. Though most of them just pity you rather than want to kill them.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I get the idea of getting to vulnerable kids before these arseholes get to turn them. But that time has passed; she's not a kid who's flirting with this ideology, she's an adult who's still committed to it.

So if you met a 17 year old National Front supporter you'd show them compassion but give them a kicking if they were 19?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Because people from her cult have actually carried it out on numerous occasions. There is more than reasonable suspicion that she may wish to do the same.

To repeat, I think she should be allowed back and she should get rehabilitation. I don't think she should come back and lets all pretend the last few years didn't happen.

That's fair enough. I don't understand the disagreement in that case though? I said if she makes it to a consulate she'll be questioned/processed/prosecuted and put in the care of social services as applicable.

 

[eoin_k]

She's had two babies die in the last three months and she's due to give birth any day, but let's not imagine that her grief and her hormones might be clouding her judgement about anything right now

It's a pretty horendous situation for a young women to find herself in, but she also gives a very frank account of her own perspective. She doesn't seem at all afraid or reluctant to criticise Isis for not living up to its ideals. She recounts her experiences vivdly and doesn't represent herself as a victim. She also articulates why she wants to come back to Britain clearly.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Anyone not part of her brand of Islam is less than human. Basically the same as any devout follower. Though most of them just pity you rather than want to kill them.

So we're at risk of being pitied?

 

[eoin_k]

So we're at risk of being pitied?

No, that's not how her crew roll.