British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[brogdale]

Oh dear, how sad, what a shame, never mind.

Not sure what point you're making tbh

 

[Sprocket.]

Well she’s had the baby according to Sky News.

 

[LDC]

Well she’s had the baby according to Sky News.

Makes not a jot of difference to my position tbh. Although if I was a betting person I'd say she'll end up back in the UK within the year.

 

[A380]

Ex] but I have tried to challenge the whoring of her.

...

I’ve missed those posts. Please link to a couple where this ‘whoring’ has been done.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nigel Farage (yes I know) on LBC radio is saying she has given birth.
Now The shit really has hit the fan.

Shit hits the fan every time Farage goes on air, tbh

 

[Spymaster]

... its obligations to her are the same as any other UK national.

Nonsense.

 

[brogdale]

Nonsense.

Go on...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Exactly, I've not consciously sought to portray her as the Madonna, but I have tried to challenge the whoring of her.

If you think others have been whoring her then you have been badly misunderstanding. Fwiw your posts come across like you are minimising her responsibility because she's *only* a girl who *only* got married and had children.

 

[cyril_smear]

I haven't read the whole thread but has this woman committed any kind of criminal offence?

 

[brogdale]

I haven't read the whole thread but has this woman committed any kind of criminal offence?

Impossible to say until she's tried.

 

[Spymaster]

Impossible to say until she's tried.

 

[kebabking]

I haven't read the whole thread but has this woman committed any kind of criminal offence?

She has committed two in the UK - fraudulent use of a passport (she used her sisters to travel), and leaving the UK to join IS. Both are serious criminal offenses in the UK.

Her much more serious offences were commited in Syria. Slavery for a start...

 

[Spymaster]

Impossible to say until she's tried.

If I see you shoot Tim in the head, then you tell everyone “I just shot Tim in the head”, would you be not guilty until you were tried?

 

[Athos]

Impossible to say until she's tried.

Yes, technically, absent any conviction she's innocent. Like, say, Jimmy Savile and Jack The Ripper.

 

[clicker]

What nationality is the baby ? Was the father Dutch and if so, can she claim any rights to living there?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yes, technically, absent any conviction she's innocent. Like, say, Jimmy Savile and Jack The Ripper.

I think you missed out 'in law', clearly she, Jimmy Savile and Jack The Ripper are/were not innocent.

 

[brogdale]

If I see you shoot Tim in the head, then you tell everyone “I just shot Tim in the head”, would you be not guilty until you were tried?

As we've established, it's up to the UK state to decide whether or not they want to extradite, arrest, try and (possibly) convict Begum. Similarly if she makes her way back under her own steam.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And careful here folks. We should watch what we say lest we prejudice a future trial.

 

[brogdale]

Yes, technically, absent any conviction she's innocent. Like, say, Jimmy Savile and Jack The Ripper.

That was the question posed:

has this woman committed any kind of criminal offence?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That was the question posed:

To which the answer is 'yes', by her own admission.

 

[Athos]

That was the question posed:

I know. I'm agreeing with you that, by virtue of the presumption of innocence, she hasn't committed a crime. But pointing out that that legal fiction can lead to absurdity.

 

[brogdale]

To which the answer is 'yes', by her own admission.

Her reported/broadcast comments from the context of the Syrian DP camp might suggest that, but that's not how the state judicial system works, is it?
The alleged offence(s) will remain unproven until or unless she faces trial in a UK court.

 

[brogdale]

I know. I'm agreeing with you that, by virtue of the presumption of innocence, she hasn't committed a crime. But pointing out that that legal fiction can lead to absurdity.

None of us have any proof, do we?

 

[cyril_smear]

Her much more serious offences were commited in Syria. Slavery for a start...

Wouldn't that be up to the Syrians to prosecute.

Looks like she could be in deep dog doo then if she were to return to the UK... For the passport thing at least.

 

[cyril_smear]

Would going and marrying an IS member be regarded as supporting a terrorist organisation or whatever the offence is called here in England and Wales.

 

[Athos]

None of us have any proof, do we?

We all have evidence which any of us we can weigh to assess whether or not we consider her guilty. But, of course, until a court convicts her, she is innocent in the eyes of the law.

 

[Spymaster]

... it's up to the UK state to decide whether or not they want to extradite, arrest, try and (possibly) convict Begum.

Well if you agree that, great. So far the state seems to be saying that we're not going to lift a finger to help her and if she arrives in the UK under her own steam she'll be arrested and possibly prosecuted. All of which is perfectly fine by me.

 

[kebabking]

..The alleged offence(s) will remain unproven until or unless she faces trial in a UK court.

Why do you take the view that she can only be tried by a UK court?

She's in Syria, the most serious crimes she's accused of - and admits to - occured in Syria and were committed against Syrians.

I rather doubt that if someone was in the UK, accused of murder in the UK, you'd argue that they should first be extradited to Italy to face car theft charges...

 

[cyril_smear]

She's in Syria, the most serious crimes she's accused of - and admits to - occured in Syria and were committed against

Probably why she wants to come back to the UK and face a few years I'm jail rather than being hanged in Syria... some martyr eh.

 

[kebabking]

Would going and marrying an IS member be regarded as supporting a terrorist organisation or whatever the offence is called here in England and Wales.

The marrying is broadly irrelevant, going there to live under the IS Caliphate/Jurisdiction is considered to fall within 'supporting' a proscribed organisation.