British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Pickman's model]

I don’t give a shit about begum, as have said many times.

how strange to post this repeatedly that you don't give a shit about the subject of the thread. especially, as in this case, in answer to a point about jack letts.

 

[B.I.G]

Hes thoroughly British isn’t he (I assume) so not in danger of having his citizenship removed even if he blew up a mosque or started a genocidal cult or whatever.
If we were talking about some punishment that could apply to all citizens equally if they did the same crime I wouldn’t be on the thread.

Is there a reason you believe dual citizenship should come only with advantages and not disadvantages?

 

[bimble]

Is there a reason you believe dual citizenship should come only with advantages and not disadvantages?

Seriously? Citizenship is the basis of any rights we have. I don’t think mine should be provisional, contingent & worth less than the next persons, just cos of my ancestry.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I don’t give a shit about begum, as have said many times. Other people here do.

You ought to. Iran are currently profiling British Jews to attack should Israel target Iranian nuclear facilities. Iran is arguably a more tolerant state than IS.

 

[bimble]

You ought to. Iran are currently profiling British Jews to attack should Israel target Iranian nuclear facilities. Iran is arguably a more tolerant state than IS.

Eh? I care about the principle a lot. Not about her the individual.

 

[Pickman's model]

Seriously? Citizenship is the basis of any rights we have. I don’t think mine should be provisional, contingent & worth less than the next persons, just cos of my ancestry.

it's not worth less cos of that, it's worth less because of a decision by the government.

 

[Spymaster]

Seriously? Citizenship is the basis of any rights we have. I don’t think mine should be provisional, contingent & worth less than the next persons, just cos of my ancestry.

Relinquish your non-British citizenship then.

Or just, you know, make a point of not joining a bunch of terrorist psychopaths.

 

[B.I.G]

Seriously? Citizenship is the basis of any rights we have. I don’t think mine should be provisional, contingent & worth less than the next persons, just cos of my ancestry.

But those with more than one citizenship have greater rights do they not?

You believe it should be one way, all the advantages but no disadvanatges?

 

[bimble]

But those with more than one citizenship have greater rights do they not?

You believe it should be one way, all the advantages but no disadvanatges?

Yes.

 

[Spymaster]

But those with more than one citizenship have greater rights do they not?

You believe it should be one way, all the advantages but no disadvanatges?

In Bimble's case her dual nationality gives her all the benefits of being an EU citizen as well as access to British consular assistance anywhere in the world, and the right to work and reside anywhere in Europe.

All she has to do to maintain that extremely fortunate status is not commit any serious crimes that may be deemed terroristic.

Hard life isn't it?

 

[Pickman's model]

In Bimble's case her dual nationality gives her all the benefits of being an EU citizen as well as access to British consular assistance anywhere in the world.

All she has to do to maintain that extremely fortunate status is not commit any serious crimes that may be deemed terroristic.

Hard life isn't it?

what's considered bad form but legal one day may be a terrorist offence the next, so tbh no one knows what may be considered a terrorist offence in the future, and some people all of us applaud are terrorists to other people. so all bimble has to do is nothing, and even that can be problematic in some circumstances.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Begum was never a 'dual national'. To accept that she was is to accept the reasoning of the British government that demotes certain people's citizenship on the basis of their ancestry. I for one reject this racist notion.

 

[Rob Ray]

I know that feels good to say Magnus McGinty but I really don’t think it’s true. She’s just the famous blockbuster example of this punishment of removing citizenship. I have no interest at all in her as an individual. The reason she’s this famous is not due to an excess of misplaced sympathy from lefties either, is it, it’s because she’s a useful and emotive hate figure.

It's quite annoying to be repeatedly told what I think by people who I've repeatedly told outright what I'm thinking and yet still get it wrong. It's almost as though what they're actually arguing with is the spectres in their own minds.

 

[B.I.G]

Yes.

Apparently, 70% of the countries in the world have some kind of provision for removal of citizenship.

With it being the apparent norm around the world, I don’t think the argument that dual citizens should only benefit isn’t going to make a strong case should any politician aim to make the case for change.

Also seen by the fact there is a widespread charter against making people stateless rather than removing citizenship entirely.

 

[Spymaster]

what's considered bad form but legal one day may be a terrorist offence the next, so tbh no one knows what may be considered a terrorist offence in the future, and some people all of us applaud are terrorists to other people. so all bimble has to do is nothing, and even that can be problematic in some circumstances.

This thread's been going for 4 years now and I'm still waiting to be shown an example of an overreach of these powers that hasn't been rectified in the appeals processes.

 

[Rob Ray]

But would you cut eg Nick Griffin the same slack? He’s been in racist/misogynistic organisations that have done far less than IS.

I would not, at any stage, be in favour of stripping British nationality from Nick Griffin and inflicting the slimy prick on anyone else. This goes for every evil bastard this country's produced, from Nigel Farage to David Copeland. Spymaster and Magnus McGinty please take very specific note of the previous two sentences, which I have put in bold in case your problem is poor eyesight.

 

[Pickman's model]

This thread's been going for 4 years now and I'm still waiting to be shown an example of an overreach of these powers that hasn't been rectified in the appeals processes.

i think several people have pointed directly to shemima begum

 

[bimble]

"But there SHOULD be downsides to having foreign parents / grandparents". Come on. There must be something better out there to argue about, thin pickings.

 

[Spymaster]

i think several people have pointed directly to shemima begum

Mistakenly.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Apparently, 70% of the countries in the world have some kind of provision for removal of citizenship.

With it being the apparent norm around the world, I don’t think the argument that dual citizens should only benefit isn’t going to make a strong case should any politician aim to make the case for change.

Also seen by the fact there is a widespread charter against making people stateless rather than removing citizenship entirely.

The case for change was made the other way. Cos Terrorism, of course. It is in the name of Terrorism that rights are stripped. Until recently, only naturalised citizens could have their citizenship stripped in any circumstances.

I have no idea which other countries also allow this. If they do, that's a thoroughly bad thing, too.

 

[B.I.G]

"But there SHOULD be downsides to having foreign parents / grandparents". Come on. There must be something better out there to argue about, thin pickings.

One downside for dual citizens is that the UN convention on statelessness does’t apply.

 

[bimble]

One downside for dual citizens is that the UN convention on statelessness does’t apply.

which is why i am wasting my time talking to you, yes.

 

[Spymaster]

"But there SHOULD be downsides to having foreign parents / grandparents".

Nobody's arguing that at all.

You have gone out of your way to procure dual nationality and the benefits that it provides.

Then you have the gall to complain that your British rights have been diluted.

I ask you!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And that's what you're reduced to. Liking posts by the reactionary idiot, BIG.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nobody's arguing that at all.

You have gone out of your way to procure dual nationality and the benefits that it provides.

Then you have the gall to complain that your British rights have been diluted.

I ask you!

You are arguing exactly that in the case of Shamima Begum. She didn't even know about her putative Bangladeshi citizenship.

And now you have BIG on your side. Hooray!

 

[bimble]

All she has to do to maintain that extremely fortunate status is not commit any serious crimes that may be deemed terroristic.

You havent actually gotten around to looking at the law have you. It says nothing about it having to be terrorism connected, the only solid part is that the home secretary thinks it would be conducive to the public good to get rid of you, the rest is "for example" ..

 

[Tones]

It's one thing saying that if you actively seek dual nationality then you take the cons with the pros. But to impose those cons on people who didn't even know they were dual nationals seems a bit unfair.

 

[B.I.G]

which is why i am wasting my time talking to you, yes.

I don’t get it. Article 8 can’t be applied to those that it would render stateless.

 

[bimble]

You have gone out of your way to procure dual nationality and the benefits that it provides.

Then you have the gall to complain that your British rights have been diluted.

I went out of my way to get the passport yes, it was quite a lot of work, but this law doesn't care about that, its irrelevant, they could try to send me to the slovak republic without any of that, long as the home sec and her lawyers believed i was 'eligible'.

 

[bimble]

I don’t get it. Article 8 can’t be applied to those that it would render stateless.

so its fine then why would anyone complain about being sent to bangladesh or any other country they've never set foot in if their gran was from there yeah.