British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Spymaster]

How do you know its only be used in terrorism cases?

At last a decent question.

Everything I've posted on this thread is based on my current understanding having studied this, on and off, for the last 4 years. I've repeatedly asked lefty handwringers like Rob Ray , to provide examples that would change my mind but so far to no avail. The best they can come up with is 'just because it hasn't yet doesn't mean it won't in the future', and screaming "naive" at me!

 

[Dystopiary]

Missed this. Glad our anti-fascist views align.

I'm not sure anyone on the thread has argued that [hypothetical British fascist] should lose their citizenship.

 

[Spymaster]

You think 173,000 young British people of Bangladeshi heritage should be told that they need to contact the Bangladeshi authorities (who don't even know they exist) in order to renounce their right to Bangladeshi citizenship before they can have an equal status with their non-Bangladeshi peers?

Fuck's sake.

No, they shouldn't be told to do anything. But people with ancestries of all jus sanguinis nations, Bangladesh or otherwise (Irish springs to mind) should be made aware of their status.

And calm down with that last sentence dear!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No, they shouldn't be told to do anything. But people of all ancestries of jus sanguinis nations, Bangladeshi or otherwise (Irish springs to mind) should be made aware of their status.

And calm down with that last sentence dear!

They will be told exactly as I said - if you want equal status with your peers, you need to do this.

You've reached a disgusting place here. Really disgusting.

 

[Tones]

At last a decent question.

Everything I've posted on this thread is based on my current understanding having studied this, on and off, for the last 4 years. I've repeatedly asked lefty handwringers like Rob Ray , to provide examples that would change my mind but so far to no avail. The best they can come up with is 'just because it hasn't yet doesn't mean it won't in the future', and screaming "naive" at me!

So it's fair to say that you don't actually know whether or not the thing you keep saying is true. For all you know this power may have been used on people not suspected of terrorism.

 

[bimble]

people with ancestries of all jus sanguinis nations, Bangladesh or otherwise (Irish springs to mind) should be made aware of their status.

What should they do once they get the leaflet notifying them of their provisional status as British citizens?
Either
1) try to renounce the other citizenship that they may have never heard of or
2) BEHAVE THEMSELVES in a way that nobody else has to, just in order ensure continued Britishness.
Sounds fine.

 

[Spymaster]

So it's fair to say that you don't actually know whether or not the thing you keep saying is true. For all you know this power may have been used on people not suspected of terrorism.

Yes, that is fair, but would expect at least one such case to have made it into the news.

However, if someone can show any such cases I may well change my mind.

 

[Spymaster]

They will be told exactly as I said - if you want equal status with your peers, you need to do this.

You've reached a disgusting place here. Really disgusting.

They will be advised that the benefits bestowed by their dual status comes with some disavantages that the massively overwhelming majority don't need to concern themselves with.

A double-barrelled parting shot this time. Breaks the monotony I guess.

 

[cesare]

No, they shouldn't be told to do anything. But people with ancestries of all jus sanguinis nations, Bangladesh or otherwise (Irish springs to mind) should be made aware of their status.

And calm down with that last sentence dear!

That was my point about my Dad saying to be fucking careful about going down the Irish dual citizenship route, the UK state won't stand for it etc or at least you'll be vulnerable in any number of what-ifs going forward.

 

[Spymaster]

That was my point about my Dad saying to be fucking careful about going down the Irish dual citizenship route, the UK state won't stand for it etc or at least you'll be vulnerable in any number of what-ifs going forward.

Right. Your dad knew the score. Isn't it fair to make sure everyone else in similar situations do too?

 

[bimble]

the benefits bestowed by their dual status comes with some disavantages

Do you think Begum enjoyed the luxurious benefits of her 'duel status' before it was gone.

 

[B.I.G]

Do you think Begum enjoyed the luxurious benefits of her 'duel status' before it was gone.

Are you arguing about this single case or about people it might affect in general?

You seem to switch between the two.

 

[Spymaster]

Do you think Begum enjoyed the luxurious benefits of her 'duel status' before it was gone.

No. But that's irrelevant.

Edit> See BIG's reply above.

 

[Tones]

Yes, that is fair...

You probably should stop stating it as a fact, then.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'm not sure anyone on the thread has argued that [hypothetical British fascist] should lose their citizenship.

I was saying that if similar happened (which arguably it can’t) that most people on here wouldn’t give a fuck. And rightly so.

 

[bimble]

Are you arguing about this single case or about people it might affect in general?

the latter.

 

[Spymaster]

You probably should stop stating it as a fact, then.

As I say, happy to be proved wrong. Hasn't happened in 4 years though.

 

[bimble]

See BIG's reply above.

This is your lowest point. Pitiful. Don't worry, another argument will come along where you haven't made quite such an arse of yourself & then things will get better.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is your lowest point. things will only get better.

you think we've reached his nadir?

 

[cesare]

Right. Your dad knew the score. Isn't it fair to make sure everyone else in similar situations do too?

Yes. But two points here.

1. I think that if you have parents or grandparents of non-UK citizenship, that you'd have to be pretty fucking thick and/or disingenuous to try and make out a case that you weren't aware of the potential implications for your own citizenship.

2. I don't trust the UK state to be transparent about its latest shifting position so it's not going to give everyone a leaflet that needs to be updated whenever the politicos move the goalposts. Having said that, the politico stance isn't necessarily the legal one which I guess is why this has been an argument for some 4 years.

 

[B.I.G]

the latter.

So are you ok with people that acquired british citizenship as a second nationality as an adult having it stripped from them?

 

[Spymaster]

you think we've reached his nadir?

She seems to have something against BIG

 

[bimble]

you think we've reached his nadir?

Do hope so. where else is there to go after deferring to the greater eloquence of BIG.

 

[bimble]

So are you ok with people that acquired british citizenship as a second nationality as an adult having it stripped from them?

Are you ok with people eating smooth peanut butter instead of crunchy? what are you on about you're just making up irrelevant stuff.

 

[B.I.G]

Are you ok with people eating smooth peanut butter instead of crunchy? what are you on about you're just making up irrelevant stuff.

Because you are against people with a second citizenship having their british citizenship taking from them either under certain cirumstances or all circumstances and I am trying to determine which is the case.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Because you are against people with a second citizenship having their british citizenship taking from them either under certain cirumstances or all circumstances and I am trying to determine which is the case.

You're not being as clever as you think you are here.

Provision has long existed for people who acquire British citizenship as adults (naturalised citizens) to have their citizenship revoked or annulled if it is shown that they falsified the evidence they used to gain that citizenship. This really has nothing whatever to do with the case of Begum. Or Letts for that matter.

 

[Tones]

As I say, happy to be proved wrong. Hasn't happened in 4 years though.

Thats a dishonest argument because the public doesn't have access to the reasons for the deprivations which could prove you wrong. You've admitted you don't know its true so just stop saying it.

 

[bimble]

Because you are against people with a second citizenship having their british citizenship taking from them either under certain cirumstances or all circumstances and I am trying to determine which is the case.

ok. If i think about people who were given their british status as an adult, the first example that comes to mind is my dad, who came as a refugee, i think he was 20 or so.
And yeah i think his citizenship should be as valid and secure as the next mans.
So the answer is yes, unless your citizenship was granted fraudulently, you're either a citizen or not. There's no justification for two tiers of britishness.

 

[B.I.G]

You're not being as clever as you think you are here.

I’m just trying to find out. It’s not about being clever.

Do you not think its a distinction some would make? Where people believe if you were born in the UK it is different than if it was granted based on a recent length of residency.

 

[Spymaster]

1. I think that if you have parents or grandparents of non-UK citizenship, that you'd have to be pretty fucking thick and/or disingenuous to try and make out a case that you weren't aware of the potential implications for your own citizenship.

It's certainly something that should be given some thought. Especially if you're minded to run off to join a genocide cult. That said, it's possible not to know. I didn't know I was an Irish citizen prior to applying for the passport.

2. I don't trust the UK state to be transparent about its latest shifting position so it's not going to give everyone a leaflet that needs to be updated whenever the politicos move the goalposts. Having said that, the politico stance isn't necessarily the legal one which I guess is why this has been an argument for some 4 years.

It doesn't need to be leafleting, of course. That was Bimble being silly, but there are other ways of advising people of their citizenship rights (community stuff, advice with passport applications, etc)