British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Athos]

Where do people get this shit from?

This question has been settled very clearly and comprehensively by several courts now. Legally (according to Bristish and Bangladeshi law), Begum was a dual national at the time she was stripped of her British citizenship so the act did not make her stateless. According to Bangaldeshi law she is a citizen of that nation by birth until she is 21 unless she renounces it. She hasn't. The fact that a couple of Bangledeshi politicians have said she is not a citizen of theirs doesn't change what their law says. If the Chief of the Met Police said "driving at 100mph is legal", that wouldn't make it legal. He'd just be misinterpreting the law or, as in the case of Begum, simply ignoring what it says for his own ends.

Quite.

See s.5 of the Citizenship Act 1951 (as amended). It does not include and requirement of application or registration that you seem to be claiming:

5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 4[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:



Provided that if the 5[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-



(a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country; or



(b) that person's 6[ father or mother] is, at the time of the birth, in the service of any Government in Bangladesh.

 

[NoXion]

Yes, lots of people arguing she can’t possibly have full agency because of her background.

Are you saying that the overwhelming majority of teenagers don't run off to join a nascent theocracy that openly and proudly commits atrocities? Here I was thinking that I was unusual for being like that.

 

[Treacle Toes]

The idea that I could be stripped of my British citizenship and declared a Dominican citizen is quite head fuck, actually. Having never been there and my father not having returned there since 1980's.

The 'it's the Bangladeshi government's fault feels really grubby to me. There is a massive touch of Javid and Patel proving where their loyalities lie in so much of how they operate and seeing this argument spouted by the frothiest of racists who are only tolerant of BAME Tory MPs if they are doing the hard line 'anti-woke' and dog whistle anti-immigrant narrative is telling...

 

[not-bono-ever]

Are you saying that the overwhelming majority of teenagers don't run off to join a nascent theocracy that openly and proudly commits atrocities? Here I was thinking that I was unusual for being like that.

You were not a teen at the time this happened I suspect .

 

[not-bono-ever]

UKG won this race to the bottom

 

[Treacle Toes]

Yes, lots of people arguing she can’t possibly have full agency because of her background.

Really? I see people arguing that her lack of 'agency' was age related and the fact she was groomed.

 

[Pickman's model]

UKG won this race to the bottom

They speed downhill

E2A they started down there - those of us with long memories will recollect the covenant of security they entered into with jihadis

 

[Spymaster]

The idea that I could be stripped of my British citizenship and declared a Dominican citizen is quite head fuck, actually.

Don't join a genocidal rape and torture club, and it won't happen. If you really feel it's impossible to stay out of the clutches of Isis, renounce one of the citizenships and Bob's your uncle.

Head fuck over.

 

[Athos]

The idea that I could be stripped of my British citizenship and declared a Dominican citizen is quite head fuck, actually. Having never been there and my father not having returned there since 1980's.

The 'it's the Bangladeshi government's fault feels really grubby to me. There is a massive touch of Javid and Patel proving where their loyalities lie in so much of how they operate and seeing this argument spouted by the frothiest of racists who are only tolerant of BAME Tory MPs if they are doing the hard line 'anti-woke' and dog whistle anti-immigrant narrative is telling...

At best, they've opportunistically exploited the legal position (the lucky chance that she was still a Bangledeshi dual national) in order to protect the public from a very real risk; at worst, its a cynical ploy to sacrifice this young woman for the sake of their political careers. I suspect the truth is there's a bit of both (but, without being party to the detail, we'll never know).

 

[A380]

Wishing doesn't enter into it. Begum is a British citizen and the British state should take responsibilty for her.

Really? I see people arguing that her lack of 'agency' was age related and the fact she was groomed.

Yes I saw those too, might agree a little with the first. But I also read quite a lot of racism too that a British person of Bangladeshi descent couldn’t possibly be held to the same standards of decision making as a white British person, which is obviously bollocks. Certainly reading that into the whole ‘British justice is better justice’ line.

 

[NoXion]

You were not a teen at the time this happened I suspect .

I was definitely a miserable and alienated teen at one point in my life though. Thankfully I got into heavy metal and weed smoking instead of terrorism.

 

[Treacle Toes]

But I also read quite a lot of racism too that a British person of Bangladeshi descent couldn’t possibly be held to the same standards of decision making as a white British person, which is obviously bollocks.

Really? From whom?

 

[A380]

The 'it's the Bangladeshi government's fault feels really grubby to me...

The whole thing is grubby. Killing people by dripping guided bombs on them when we completely control the airspace seems grubby too, but if you are fighting people the more grubby normally the safer.

 

[A380]

Really? From whom?

Closet racists.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Aside from anything else, this is a gift to the radicalizers and groomers.

See, you don't belong here. You'll never truly belong to them. They will never accept you as truly British. Your loyalties should lie elsewhere.

Any calculation of risk needs to factor in the open goal this decision represents to those who seek to turn and groom disaffected teenagers like Begum. It's not just morally rotten to do this. It's also incredibly foolish.

 

[not-bono-ever]

This sidestepping goes no way to resolving the shithole of the IS remainder problem in the region.honest non leading question- what is being done wrt these IS camps ?

 

[Pickman's model]

This sidestepping goes no way to resolving the shithole of the IS remainder problem in the region.honest non leading question- what is being done wrt these IS camps ?

Sure daesh will do something with them sooner or later

 

[SpookyFrank]

Closet racists.

You're going round the houses a bit here I reckon. Unless you've got some specific examples you'd like to pull up.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I was definitely a miserable and alienated teen at one point in my life though. Thankfully I got into heavy metal and weed smoking instead of terrorism.

Not even an anarchist cookbook on the shelf ? Tsk.
A bit of death metal and weed may have produced a very different begum

 

[not-bono-ever]

Can we start a wishy washy liberal sub forum as to offer some protection from the Chuck Norris kill them all and let god sort them out battalion ? Tks

 

[Spymaster]

Aside from anything else, this is a gift to the radicalizers and groomers.

See, you don't belong here. You'll never truly belong to them. They will never accept you as truly British. Your loyalties should lie elsewhere.

Any calculation of risk needs to factor in the open goal this decision represents to those who seek to turn and groom disaffected teenagers like Begum. It's not just morally rotten to do this. It's also incredibly foolish.

You’ve got to bend yourself backwards into a polo to see it that way. One could equally argue that it’ll deter kids from joining rapey murder cults.

 

[kebabking]

This sidestepping goes no way to resolving the shithole of the IS remainder problem in the region.honest non leading question- what is being done wrt these IS camps ?

Little. Neither the Iraqi's not the Syrians want to trigger a fresh escalation - they simply have their hands full with the current level of fighting and internal chaos - and their 'partners' have to respect that, for the moment.

What is currently going on is containment, having a pop here and there to address this or that action on a local level (tactical), and some action to mitigate the recovery of IS on a strategic level, but there isn't currently a campaign at the operational level (war) to reasert control over the camps. They are (broadly) IS run internally within territory that is contested by IS and other groups.

The war in eastern Syria isn't over, it's at a 'taking a breather' stage - all sides are regrouping, and trying to make 'facts on the ground' while not provoking their enemies to take the offensive. Full war will return, it's merely about who gets to that stage of preparedness, or is pushed into it, first.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Of no particular scientific basis but a quick scan of soshal media on this topic does seem to have a recurring jolly racist theme going on. Apropos of nothing but yeah

 

[krtek a houby]

The difference is that those people returned under their own steam, whereas SB left it until she ended up in a position where she couldn't come back like that, and for her to get back here would have required a significant amount of effort from the government to get her here.

I also expect she didn't help her chances with the media interviews she did tbh.

What was unhelpful about the interviews?

 

[kebabking]

What was unhelpful about the interviews?

She didn't break down in floods of tears sobbing about how sorry she was and how she regretted it from the moment she got there. She still thought that IS was great, but because the local health service was shit (I shit you not), she wanted to to come back to the UK.

*Nothing to do with IS shooting all the local doctors you understand....

 

[krtek a houby]

She didn't break down in floods of tears sobbing about how sorry she was and how she regretted it from the moment she got there. She still thought that IS was great, but because the local health service was shit (I shit you not), she wanted to to come back to the UK.

*Nothing to do with IS shooting all the local doctors you understand....

Did she say IS is great?

 

[not-bono-ever]

There might be a bit of background that could explain the interview direction on both sides

 

[LDC]

^ yeah that what kebabking said. Not really going to help your case in coming back here is it? She'd have been better off not doing the interviews and making promises to engage in a de-radicalisation program and speak out against IS back here after that. We can speculate as to why she didn't do that.

TBH she came across as not the fastest hamster on the wheel. And the media bear a small amount of responsibility for what's happened to her since then I think, once those interviews were public the chances of her being allowed back here pretty much evaporated I think.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

It's clear that your students are vulnerable but sm wasn't failed by mainstream education was she? She was a high achiever. I'm wondering what could've made a difference for her when there wasn't an identified need at the time? I'm not saying there wasn't anything btw but I don't think we have much understanding of her particular trajectory do we? On the other hand, her friend who left the UK first, had just lost her mother, and was extremely vulnerable. There hasn't been much written about the importance of this, her close friendship group.

Looking at the first highlighted bit I have to ask what is or isn't a failure. Was she? what is the purpose of education? To score points on a quiz or to to give you the skills to be easily able to integrate into society.
Yes education is aimed at giving you skills and a person may score highly on a technical issue but that does not give an understanding of personal stress or ideologies. Academic targets may have been met but what of pastoral care?
I work in a college where I have a relatively small number of students a year and I often focus more on assessment criteria that holistic needs. It's a sad part of teaching where you often deliver the care you think you can do rather than the care you would like to do. I think this maybe also true of most agencies.

Also just because someone doesn't hit all the targets doesn't mean they are not vurablr.

 

[Spymaster]

Did she say IS is great?

She was asked her opinion on IS murdering their way across two countries and replied something along the lines of ‘our people are being murdered by American and British bombs in Baghuz’. “Our people” in this case being ISIS.