British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[LDC]

I don't know but I keep coming back to the fact that somehow there was a point when an unsupervised 15 year old child got on a plane. At some point she was protected as a minor and then she wasn't. What point was that? Surely a 15 year old can't just get on a plane to Turkey? Surely someone has to be with them at the airport if they're flying alone?

She used her sister's passport. Anyway, I flew abroad when I was under 18. Fuck all checks.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I mean that starting from a position where being kind and understanding rather than condemning out of hand is a good thing, but there's times when you do need to move beyond that and take a position that judges and condemns someone's actions and expects them to take responsibility for what they did.

Of course, surely you can see why some -like myself- are dithering in this particular case ? It's not cause we are soft.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Correction- we aren't all soft

 

[LDC]

Of course, surely you can see why some -like myself- are dithering in this particular case ? It's not cause we are soft.

Yeah, I think it is complicated, of course. But as I said, leaving her (and her soon to be born baby) where she is is about the right decision currently.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yeah, I think it is complicated, of course. But as I said, leaving her (and her soon to be born baby) where she is is about the right decision currently.

Fair enough, I must look at this again the morn. I currently have no idea!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah, I think it is complicated, of course. But as I said, leaving her (and her soon to be born baby) where she is is about the right decision currently.

I have no problem with the idea of the British govt taking steps to get her and her baby back - if she is about to give birth presumably flying would not be wise anyway, but after that. She's British, she's in trouble, and she's asked for help.

But when she gets back, she then faces the consequences of what she did. And what she did was despicable. It's not surprising that she doesn't sound that repentant at this moment. It will take a lot and probably a long time for her to accept the enormity of what she's done - helping murderers, torturers and rapists, allowing her own two children to die - there is a lot there to process. And I'd want her to get help in processing that. But part of that process has to be accepting responsibility, and that will have to mean prosecution and prison. I really don't see how else we, as in British society, could deal with her return - just give her a pram and send her back to Bethnal Green? I don't see how that could ever possibly happen. Plus, she will be extensively 'debriefed' if she ever gets back here. That's not at all in doubt.

 

[editor]

It will take a lot and probably a long time for her to accept the enormity of what she's done - helping murderers, torturers and rapists, allowing her own two children to die - there is a lot there to process. And I'd want her to get help in processing that. But part of that process has to be accepting responsibility, and that will have to mean prosecution and prison. I really don't see how else we, as in British society, could deal with her return - just give her a pram and send her back to Bethnal Green? I don't see how that could ever possibly happen. Plus, she will be extensively 'debriefed' if she ever gets back here. That's not at all in doubt.

That's assuming that she actually feels the need to accept any responsibility or wants to 'process' anything.

"I don't regret coming here," she told Times journalist Anthony Loyd, who found her in the camp.

"I'm not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago."

IS runaway teen 'could be prosecuted in UK'

 

[redsquirrel]

A veritable jihadist factory.
I hope this child gets taken into care.

Fuck off.
I didn't bother responding the first time you came out with this misogynistic shit but this can't be not commented on now.

 

[brogdale]

That's assuming that she actually feels the need to accept any responsibility or wants to 'process' anything.

IS runaway teen 'could be prosecuted in UK'

On C4News the family's lawyer made the point that we might treat any statements made in the context of the 'refugee' camps with some caution. Even if she had reappraised her decision to join the Caliphate, she may well be living in proximity to those who haven't.

 

[tim]

I mean that starting from a position where being kind and understanding rather than condemning out of hand is a good thing, but there's times when you do need to move beyond that and take a position that judges and condemns someone's actions and expects them to take responsibility for what they did.

You want to make an example of someone and you start with someone at the very bottom. Meanwhile those at the top in our society whatever they authorise who ever they collaborate with get away with it. Who's really worse a fifteen year old who runs off to Syria and become the mother of two dead children or a politician or company director who arms and backs the Saudi genocide in Yemen?

Do you think she's worse than these grovellers?

 

[likesfish]

They kind of got to say that as she's not really coming across as sympathetic at the moment.

 

[LDC]

You want to man example of someone and you start with someone at the very bottom. Meanwhile those at the top in our society whatever they authorise who ever they collaborate with get away with it. Who's really worse a fifteen year old who runs off to Syria and become the mother of two dead children or a politician or company director who arms and backs the Saudi genocide in Yemen?

Do you think she's worse than these grovellers

My mistake, sorry, I didn't know the thread was about constructing an ordered list of who and what is worst in the world.

 

[tim]

My mistake, sorry, I didn't know the thread was about constructing an ordered list of who and what is worst in the world.

It clearly is about that and for some here a teenage girl comes top of the hate list. And I say girl, because those of you who hate her hate her for a choice she made when she was 15

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You want to man example of someone and you start with someone at the very bottom. Meanwhile those at the top in our society whatever they authorise who ever they collaborate with get away with it. Who's really worse a fifteen year old who runs off to Syria and become the mother of two dead children or a politician or company director who arms and backs the Saudi genocide in Yemen?

Do you think she's worse than these grovellers

That's a bit whatabouterry, though. Of course the world is an awful place full of cunts and the cunts in power are the worst of the lot. But as chilango asked earlier, there is a solid practical problem for all of us here with people like this woman returning to the UK. How do we, as a society, deal with such a situation? Do we say and do nothing and just let them slip quietly back in? No doubt that has happened in one or two cases where people have flown under the radar, but when we know who they are and even help them to return? Then what do we do? I don't think the fact that the UK's political leaders also have blood on their hands helps to answer that question.

 

[Spymaster]

You want to make an example of someone and you start with someone at the very bottom. Meanwhile those at the top in our society whatever they authorise who ever they collaborate with get away with it. Who's really worse a fifteen year old who runs off to Syria and become the mother of two dead children or a politician or company director who arms and backs the Saudi genocide in Yemen?

Do you think she's worse than these grovellers?

Give it a rest Tim, ffs.

It’s perfectly possible to deplore both. This thread however, is not about the UK support for the Saudis.

 

[gentlegreen]

Fuck off.
I didn't bother responding the first time you came out with this misogynistic shit but this can't be not commented on now.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

My mistake, sorry, I didn't know the thread was about constructing an ordered list of who and what is worst in the world.

I'd like to see how it goes if that logic is offered to the victims of Not The Top Ten Worst People In The World

 

[redsquirrel]

I used to think you were just really fucking stupid.
But no you're a misogynistic piece of crap happy to praise far right sexist trolls, denigrate women as factories.

 

[gentlegreen]

I used to think you were just really fucking stupid.
But no you're a misogynistic piece of crap happy to praise far right sexist trolls, denigrate women as factories.

Not got any violent revolutions to foment ?

 

[editor]

It clearly is about that and for some here a teenage girl comes top of the hate list. And I say girl, because those of you who hate her hate her for a choice she made when she was 15

But she's a grown up now.

"I'm not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago"

 

[littlebabyjesus]

On C4News the family's lawyer made the point that we might treat any statements made in the context of the 'refugee' camps with some caution. Even if she had reappraised her decision to join the Caliphate, she may well be living in proximity to those who haven't.

She'll be hated by everyone there quite probably, surrounded by the victims of IS as well, no doubt, who won't look too kindly on another of the many foreigners who have come to their land to put it into flames.

 

[brogdale]

She'll be hated by everyone there quite probably, surrounded by the victims of IS as well, no doubt, who won't look too kindly on another of the many foreigners who have come to their land to put it into flames.

Exactly.
In that context very difficult to take any statement from the 19 year old as anything other than what she sees necessary for survival.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Exactly.
In that context very difficult to take any statement from the 19 year old as anything other than what she sees necessary for survival.

I agree.

 

[LDC]

Exactly.
In that context very difficult to take any statement from the 19 year old as anything other than what she sees necessary for survival.

And also very difficult to take anything the family lawyer says as anything other than what he sees best to get her off any possible charges.

 

[8ball]

I agree.

I’d expect her card to be marked already if that’s the case.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And also very difficult to take anything the family lawyer says as just what he thinks is best to get her off any possible charges.

Oh come on. We can know that there will be IS and IS victims in that camp. She will need to be careful what she says because the former will potentially distrust her and the latter will despise her.

 

[eoin_k]

She expressed the view that Daesh probably no longer deserved to win, so she's not been toeing the line very well.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I’d expect her card to be marked already if that’s the case.

We can't know. She may have some protector or other. We just don't know. And she's about to give birth - that in itself must be some protection of sorts.

 

[brogdale]

And also very difficult to take anything the family lawyer says as anything other than what he sees best to get her off any possible charges.

Yes, that's his job, but it doesn't necessarily invalidate the specific observation of the woman's situation.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

And she's about to give birth..

And what happens to that child is paramount in all this imo!