British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
Athos
Well-Known Member
A win/win.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
Its not to do with her. There is a baby about to be born. The relevant authorities should be seeking that child's safety as their over riding goal.
This woman and her vile views have very likely contributed to the negligence that has cost two other children their lives.
She is in no position to materially care for the child to a manner acceptable to UK authorities.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
We're all at a loss, aren't we? Norway has just about the highest living standard in the world, extensive social security networks, etc, yet it produced Anders Breivik. I don't think there are clear answers to any of this stuff. Even in a virtually ideal society, people would come along who would do terrible shit.
Aside from the obvious - stop starting wars and get out of the ones you've already started - I don't have any particular ideas wrt Britain, although 'don't start wars' is a very good place to start, I think, if you're serious about not producing violent extremists.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
What are you suggesting? Go and take the baby from her and leave her there, or bring them both back here, or something else?
And treat her as a special case? I might be wrong but as far as I know the British authorities don't intervene in child protection cases of any other UK citizens that have decided to go and live in other parts of the world.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
You know no more than I do what she did and didn't have problems with. I do however find it strange that a middle-aged man living in relative comfort can be so filled with disgust for a teenage girl living in a squalid camp who has already seen two children die. She may lack compassion, you clearly do, and are old enough to know better.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
The exact legal moves are beyond me but there should be an investigation of her circumstances from the relevant local authority (in this case Tower Hamlets) and if she cannot provide for the child in a manner expected there should be a legal move in the family courts to place the child in a safe environment. I am sure there are those here who will be able to fill in the details.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Speaking of people living in and speaking from comfort do those of you so keen to show compassion for her feel any obligation to be slightly less forgiving on behalf of all those killed, tortured, raped, and made homeless and Stateless that she helped and encouraged through her active support for IS?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You expect Tower Hamlets child protection services to go to Syria to work this out? Oh dear.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's a bit naive to think this case would follow normal procedure like that, though. Various things would be politically impossible were she to return to the UK, especially after this publicity. I suggest that one of those would be the idea that she would be allowed to keep the child.
eoin_k
Lawyer's fees, beetroot and music
Not quite sure that welfare visits to refugee camps in Sryria fall under the remit of the Tower Hamlets child protection team.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I think the opposite, if she did end up back here it would be pretty impossible to take the child off her. And if the authorities did I expect a number of people on here to be moaning about that as well.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well she'll be in prison for a start. But seriously, you think it would be hard to take her child? Someone who committed a criminal offence in travelling to Syria to join IS, who has already let two children in her care die? If you were following some kind of normal procedure I think it would be very easy to take the child away on child protection grounds. Given these circumstances, it becomes more or less mandatory to do so.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
That is far from certain.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
If she can get to where she can obtain consular assistance and makes it back to the UK with her newborn child, I'd expect her to be arrested and her child removed initially under Child Protection processes. I'd expect her to be prosecuted and locked up. It would be unlikely, depending on the length of the subsequent sentence, that the child would ever return to her care.
My impression of the video is that it's chilling. A completely brutalised person. Clearly still a risk to the public in general, and to her child in particular.
My impression of the video is that it's chilling. A completely brutalised person. Clearly still a risk to the public in general, and to her child in particular.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Two things there: the law, which she has clearly broken, and the precedent of prosecution and jail time for others before her who have broken the same law. I think it is very certain, and this video has made it even more certain.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
She was a child from Tower Hamlets who ran away, not a Daesh strategist. As to forgiveness, I'm not in a position to need to forgive her, anymore than anyone here is. I can't forgive on somebody else's behalf
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
So many legally disputable things in that even at first glance by a non-legal person.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You think it is legally disputable that she broke the law? That's the most important point, and the one that will land her in prison.
Go on then, explain how.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
She was a girl then, but was well above the age of criminal responsibility when she left. And she is now an adult and as such has actively engaged in support for IS, probably including more than just 'passive support', and is currently unrepentant and still supportive of IS and its ideology.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
"She went to join IS your honour?"
"No, she went to marry someone as she was alienated, depressed, and while vulnerable was brainwashed online."
As many on here have said. It'd be an easy case to construct in the courts.
Not everyone who went to join IS and fight has even been imprisoned and that's not what the State thinks is best to do. And you do know it's possible to break the law and not go to prison right?
As I said initially, best off turning our backs and hoping the problem gets sorted somehow.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's a case that would be laughed out of court.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I’m unsure what this means.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
I don't know but I keep coming back to the fact that somehow there was a point when an unsupervised 15 year old child got on a plane. At some point she was protected as a minor and then she wasn't. What point was that? Surely a 15 year old can't just get on a plane to Turkey? Surely someone has to be with them at the airport if they're flying alone?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I mean that starting from a position where being kind and understanding rather than condemning out of hand is a good thing, but there's times when you do need to move beyond that and take a position that judges and condemns someone's actions and expects them to take responsibility for what they did.
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