Brexit: Hard or Soft - Poll

[ska invita]

The problem with this is defining what Hard and Soft really mean, but I guess the only way around that is to leave you to define it as what you understand by it.

Here's the first google result version of the difference:

So, what is Hard Brexit?
Favoured by ardent Brexiteers, a hard Brexit arrangement would likely see the UK give up full access to the single market and full access of the customs union along with the EU.

The arrangement would prioritise giving Britain full control over its borders, making new trade deals and applying laws within its own territory.

Initially, this would mean the UK would likely fall back on World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules for trade with its former EU partners.

And what is soft Brexit?
This approach would leave the UK's relationship with the EU as close as possible to the existing arrangements, and is preferred by many Remainers.

The UK would no longer be a member of the EU and would not have a seat on the European Council. It would lose its MEPs and its European Commissioner. But, it would keep unfettered access to the European single market.

Goods and services would be traded with the remaining EU states on a tariff-free basis and financial firms would keep their "passporting" rights to sell services and operate branches in the EU. Britain would remain within the EU's customs union, meaning that exports would not be subject to border checks.

National models for this sort of deal include Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, which are not members of the EU but have access to the single market by being part of the European Economic Area.

In return, these countries must make payments into EU budgets and accept the "four freedoms" of movement of goods, services, capital and people. They are subject to EU law through the Luxembourg-based EFTA Court. Switzerland has a similar arrangement through a series of regularly updated treaties.

It is likely that a "soft Brexit" deal would insist on Britain observing the "four freedoms", meaning continued free access for European nationals to work and settle in the UK.

 

[Teaboy]

I really have no idea. Which is where I was when the vote happened. I read somewhere some guy basically saying 'the possibilities from Brexit range from moderately successful to total fucking disaster'. That's where I am at the moment.

 

[2hats]

What’s the difference between a hard brexit and crashing out?

 

[ska invita]

I really have no idea. Which is where I was when the vote happened. I read somewhere some guy basically saying 'the possibilities from Brexit range from moderately successful to total fucking disaster'. That's where I am at the moment.

From what I can see the government, and especially the civil service, are physically incapable of producing a well-transitioned hard brexit in the time frame - hard brexit requires a huge amount of new laws/deals/processes....their just isn't the staff capacity to do that, nor the willingness by government to spend money to facilitate it - seeing key brexit wonks jumping ship early doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'm starting to think that in practice the two achievable outcomes are a soft brexit or a crash out, followed by a very slow rebuilding of deals - crash out looks like a real option to me...

 

[Teaboy]

What’s the difference between a hard brexit and crashing out?

A formal trade deal it would seem.

 

[Pickman's model]

whatever people may want is unlikely to be achieved owing to the utter incompetence of the british negotiators.

 

[scifisam]

I ticked "voted remain but would like a no deal crash out" but only in certain circumstances (what, I'm not sure) where there simply isn't a good deal to be had and the govt end up saying sorry, we give up, but we did try. I don't like the idea of the referendum being completely ignored - a tiny majority did vote leave, after all - so otherwise I'd go for soft Brexit unless there are sound economic argument for a hard one. That's a very wavering answer isn't it? And TBH I'm not going to read that much about it because there's nothing I can do to affect the process anyway so there's no point wasting my time.

 

[ska invita]

What’s the difference between a hard brexit and crashing out?

i think hard brexit is negotiated with new systems/deals in place, crash out is some kind of default to...something...hopefully others can explain better

 

[J Ed]

I want a crème brûlée Brexit

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It is likely that a "soft Brexit" deal would insist on Britain observing the "four freedoms", meaning continued free access for European nationals to work and settle in the UK.

Not so sure it would. Already Macron is making noises about shutting down the freedom of movement as more cheaper workers from the east of the EU are heading for France as the UK is less attractive, it's been less than a year since the vote and the strain of the increase is being felt there already.

Plus the UK is a tad different to Norway, Iceland etc., something brand new can be put in place. Having our cake and eating it, but with a layer of marzipan to satisfy the vengeful sadists in the EU.

 

[dweller]

I want no brexit, not soft brexit.

 

[not-bono-ever]

hard brexit will detrimentally impact the poor more than a soft one.This is all relative of course.

 

[nuffsaid]

.

 

[mather]

I voted Leave and I want a hard Brexit, as defined by the OP. However I don't really buy into this hard vs soft Brexit narrative, either we have Brexit or we don't, the soft option is just a cop out that will end up satisfying no one, whether they are Leave or Remain voters. I am also not keen on Britain using the WTO to manage our trading relations as I would like Britain to leave all neo-liberal clubs such as the WTO, IMF, World Bank, NATO etc...

 

[eatmorecheese]

One plain brexit and one with chocolate sauce for later please.

Seriously, fuck knows. This whole clusterfuck is too unprecedented for me to wish for any of the options without knowing the impact. Any result that's better for the material wellbeing and security of the poorest would fit the bill, but that would require the right domestic political situation first imo.

 

[mather]

whatever people may want is unlikely to be achieved owing to the utter incompetence of the british negotiators.

I totally agree, we are royally fucked in these negotiations with the current lot of incompetents and spivs we have for a 'government'. We would be better off sending the chimpanzees at London Zoo to negotiate for us.

 

[Pickman's model]

I totally agree, we are royally fucked in these negotiations with the current lot of incompetents and spivs we have for a 'government'. We would be better off sending the chimpanzees at London Zoo to negotiate for us.

indeed we would, and with imprisoning the likes of boris johnson, david davis and theresa may in their place.

 

[butchersapron]

Whatever damages the EU project the most - which, i think, is no deal at all.

 

[mather]

indeed we would, and with imprisoning the likes of boris johnson, david davis and theresa may in their place.

But who would part with their hard earned cash to see those cunts? Seeing them on the telly is bad enough! Why not just pack em all in a rocket and send them straight to the Sun, it would give a welcome boost to our fledgling space agency.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Where's the 'I voted remain and want a second referendum on the final deal with an option to cancel brexit' choice?

 

[butchersapron]

Where's the 'I voted remain and want a second referendum on the final deal with an option to cancel brexit' choice?

No room for anti-democrats here thanks.

 

[ska invita]

Where's the 'I voted remain and want a second referendum on the final deal with an option to cancel brexit' choice?

its not an option

 

[Pickman's model]

But who would part with their hard cash to see those cunts? Seeing them on the telly is bad enough! Why not just pack em all in a rocket and send them straight to the Sun, it would give a welcome boost to our fledgling space agency.

think about all the innocent fun young scamps could have hurling penny buns at them.

 

[mather]

Whatever damages the EU project the most - which, i think, is no deal at all.

Many people are of the opinion that the EU is already damaged beyond repair, due to the debt crisis that fucked Greece over that has yet to be resolved in a proper and conclusive manner. What happened in Greece could very well hit Italy or Spain and if it does then the Euro could well collapse along with the whole EU project.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

its not an option

It could be by 2019.

 

[butchersapron]

Many people are of the opinion that the EU is already damaged beyond repair, due to the debt crisis that fucked Greece over that has yet to be resolved in a proper and conclusive manner. What happened in Greece could very well hit Italy or Spain and if it does then the Euro could well collapse along with the whole EU project.

That's why i want brexit to be flaming wrecking ball crashing across europe - entering at the netherlands and cutting right across the continent.

 

[mather]

It could be by 2019.

How exactly?

 

[J Ed]

It could be by 2019.

Well if your powers of divination politics wise are anything to go by, the EU itself will not exist in 2019.

That's something worth thinking about, how about a post-EU union once we start getting some left-wing govs elected in Europe?

 

[DotCommunist]

That's why i want brexit to be flaming wrecking ball crashing across europe - entering at the netherlands and cutting right across the continent.

but you are courting world war brie!

 

[butchersapron]

brexit has already stopped austerity- imagine that across the whole continent!