Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[belboid]

One poll today puts UKIP on 22 % of the vote.

only in the areas where there are elections happening, ie the largely tory shires. They are doing well, but not that well.

 

[Joe Reilly]

only in the areas where there are elections happening, ie the largely tory shires. They are doing well, but not that well.

While this is true it is also the case that outside of the tory shires is where the real political damage will be inflicted.

 

[belboid]

getting 3% of the electorate in Middlesbrough doesn't really convince me they're gaining much in working class areas.

 

[The39thStep]

I think you will find that they will get significantly more than that in the South Shields by election tonight

 

[malatesta32]

results tomorrow so not much point in staying up worrying thru the night!

 

[belboid]

I think you will find that they will get significantly more than that in the South Shields by election tonight

They'll come second, but so far behind labour and on a tiny turn out. I doubt they'll get a significantly higher percentage of the electorate. We'll see.

 

[Red Storm]

I'm dubious about how well UKIP will do.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I'm dubious about how well UKIP will do.

The salient point from an anti-fascist perspective is that the current and previous radical candidate to fill the vacuum are both from the far-right. In the game of leap frog fascism proper may be the long term gainers because with the UKIP flying the flag nationally, it will give them an opportunity to re group out of the lime light, while at the same time providing a ready pool of pre-politicised recruits should UKIP ever show the slightest signs of wavering.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm dubious about how well UKIP will do.

it'll be robert kilroy-silk all over again

 

[Red Storm]

Looks like I may have spoke too soon.

 

[cogg]

Looks like I may have spoke too soon.

Average of 26% in seats where they stood according to the BBC.

 

[The39thStep]

Average of 26% in seats where they stood according to the BBC.

Hi mate, how goes it?

 

[The39thStep]

They'll come second, but so far behind labour and on a tiny turn out. I doubt they'll get a significantly higher percentage of the electorate. We'll see.

Let see that gain

 

[belboid]

10%, a decent amount higher, I'd have gone for 7-8 if you'd pushed me yesterday.

Better than i thought they'd do ,for sure. No evidence one person switched from Labour to them tho, absolutely no need for them to have done so, given the collapse in the Tory, BNP & Lib votes. So I'm not really convinced it gives any more credence to the thesis that they're leading an inevitable march into WC territories, a la the BNP. Nothing like.

 

[malatesta32]

bnp results: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2013/elections/

 

[Joe Reilly]

No evidence one person switched from Labour to them tho, absolutely no need for them to have done so, given the collapse in the Tory, BNP & Lib votes. So I'm not really convinced it gives any more credence to the thesis that they're leading an inevitable march into WC territories, a la the BNP. Nothing like.

Yeah, well the thing is, that is precisely, if anyone needs reminding, what the left once confidently said of the projected BNP vote too.

Meanwhile this in from an IWCA member in Oxford:

"I had an altercation with UKIP canvassers yesterday in Oxford city centre which shows how they try to be all things to all people.
At first they must have thought I was far-right (short hair and a Fred Perry probably did it) so I was told by the student canvasser that ‘the BNP are left wing’. When I pointed out that I was actually against UKIP because they were right wing, he started saying that UKIP are not racist and that they were standing up for ordinary people. I pointed out that I hadn’t said they were racist, but that I am against them because they are anti-working class.
At this point his colleague, a middle aged Nigel Farage clone (I kid you not, trilby hat etc) stepped in with: ‘We are Libertarians’. When I replied that ‘when people like him talk about liberty, they mean the liberty of the rich to exploit the rest of us - socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor’, he tried to convince me that everyone had done well out of Margaret Thatcher!
I mentioned Milton Friedman and his face lit up. I told him that Friedman was a cunt and that the gap between rich and poor had risen under neoliberalism. He denied this and persisted with his fiction that the working class had done well out of Thatcherism. At this point they both accused me of losing the argument because I had swore at them and they took the opportunity to back off (to be honest I was losing my temper so it was probably for the best as we were in the middle of a busy shopping street!)
There is a huge UKIP poster about immigration facing the gates of the Oxford Bus Company. I’ve heard no negative comments about this. One of the scousers, a ‘left winger’ who works alongside D T, was going to vote UKIP on the immigration issue until David explained what they were about. I also spoke to another driver who is a fairly decent bloke who used to be a union activist at Royal Mail with my cousin. He was also going to vote UKIP as he believed that they were standing up for the working class."

 

[Red Storm]

bnp results: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2013/elections/

Still got a good vote in some places.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Still got a good vote in some places.

Yes, but this round UKIP appears to be the game changer.

Compared with 2009 - the last time these seats were fought - the average decline in vote share is minus 10 percentage points for the Conservatives and minus 12 for the Liberal Democrats.

The pattern of the past would expect to see the opposition advancing at the Government's expense.

But this is not happening.

Instead, Labour's vote has barely increased from its disastrous showing in 2009, averaging a six-point increase only.

It seems the much anticipated rally to Labour has gone to UKIP instead. So much for UKIP being a threat to the Tories only.

 

[belboid]

Yes, but this round UKIP appears to be the game changer.

Compared with 2009 - the last time these seats were fought - the average decline in vote share is minus 10 percentage points for the Conservatives and minus 12 for the Liberal Democrats.

The pattern of the past would expect to see the opposition advancing at the Government's expense.

But this is not happening.

Instead, Labour's vote has barely increased from its disastrous showing in 2009, averaging a six-point increase only.

It seems the much anticipated rally to Labour has gone to UKIP instead. So much for UKIP being a threat to the Tories only.

that's quite a leap to that conclusion. Labour are up 5% on the poll you referred to earlier (the one where UKIP were on 22%), which is more than UKIP are up by. It's not a great performance by them, by any means, but it isnt very strong evidence for a significant number of working class votes going that way yet.

 

[framed]

that's quite a leap to that conclusion. Labour are up 5% on the poll you referred to earlier (the one where UKIP were on 22%), which is more than UKIP are up by. It's not a great performance by them, by any means, but it isnt very strong evidence for a significant number of working class votes going that way yet.

Yes it is, if you're understanding of written English is the same as mine. Falling into 'the domain of UKIP' does not imply that UKIP have won the hearts and minds of whole sections of the working class... yet.

'Yet...' being the operative word, of course, as used in exactly the same context by you today and me yesterday.

 

[belboid]

There is nothing inherent that means they will do, tho is there? Little evidence of making any headway, and thats the point. Its possible they could, but they havent got far at all so far.

 

[framed]

There is nothing inherent that means they will do, tho is there? Little evidence of making any headway, and thats the point. Its possible they could, but they havent got far at all so far.

Those dynamics might change now though as a result of their success at these elections. If they reach the conclusion that there is indeed a constituency for them in working class areas, the language and orientation might change. The Colonel Blimp type characters obviously won't wash in working class communities, but I wouldn't underestimate their ability to adapt and use other horses for those courses.

 

[belboid]

Those dynamics might change now though as a result of their success at these elections. If they reach the conclusion that there is indeed a constituency for them in working class areas, the language and orientation might change. The Colonel Blimp type characters obviously won't wash in working class communities, but I wouldn't underestimate their ability to adapt and use other horses for those courses.

if you want to see an example of the right outdoing the left amongst WC areas, the race for mayor of Doncaster is a far far better example of them filling the vacuum more successfully than us. A comparatively successful TUSC campaign gets 1900 votes - it beast the libdems, but is only half the English Democrats and a tenth that for the (ex-English Democrat) mayor

 

[framed]

if you want to see an example of the right outdoing the left amongst WC areas, the race for mayor of Doncaster is a far far better example of them filling the vacuum more successfully than us. A comparatively successful TUSC campaign gets 1900 votes - it beast the libdems, but is only half the English Democrats and a tenth that for the (ex-English Democrat) mayor

Are there any links you can recommend on the Doncaster situation?

 

[Joe Reilly]

Little evidence of making any headway, and thats the point. Its possible they could, but they havent got far at all so far.

So the 5,000 plus votes in South Shields were all half-colonel's bussed in from Salisbury were they?

 

[cesare]

Those dynamics might change now though as a result of their success at these elections. If they reach the conclusion that there is indeed a constituency for them in working class areas, the language and orientation might change. The Colonel Blimp type characters obviously won't wash in working class communities, but I wouldn't underestimate their ability to adapt and use other horses for those courses.

Looking at their website, I think they're going for the tradesmen/SMEs.

 

[belboid]

So the 5,000 plus votes in South Shields were all half-colonel's bussed in from Salisbury were they?

of course Joe. Just like the 8000 tory votes were all old etonians bussed in from huntingdon

 

[belboid]

Are there any links you can recommend on the Doncaster situation?

forgot about this before, sorry...

Altho all I can come back and say is....no.

As far as I know there hasn't been anything with any depth to it at all. Merely some blather about 'very specific circumstances.' And, while there were very specific circumstances, the fact that it was the English Democrats who could exploit them then, and who are still in the best position (of the non-mainstream parties) to exploit that anger now, is simply symptomatic of the wider vacuum.

 

[Red Storm]

I've posted a new update on the Anti-Fascist Archive.

The two articles by Red Action on multiculturalism might be interesting in the current debate on here. Also the academic article by Ince which gives some thoughts on the IWCA.

 

[framed]

I've posted a new update on the Anti-Fascist Archive.

The two articles by Red Action on multiculturalism might be interesting in the current debate on here. Also the academic article by Ince which gives some thoughts on the IWCA.

Very timely.

The piece about St Pauli's subtle movement from radical politics to the radically commercial is very good too... Cheers!