BBC - Owen Jones

[co-op]

He dislikes Owen Jones that's for sure:

People forget it wasn’t all that very long ago when we had a Labour Work and Pensions Secretary claiming that the welfare “system is crackers”. The eight principles of welfare reform outlined by David Blunkett in 2005 united around a common Labour principle, which we should never forget; that work is the best route out of poverty.

The "work is the best route out of poverty" one is a good 'un. For decades after WW2 it justified Labour's reformism - because it was basically true; if you had a job you weren't in poverty. And if you did that enough so that unemployment was low, and Unions were strong then wages for low paid people tended to rise and the general social wealth gradient got less steep. Creeping revolution. Just about credible. I bought it.

But when it comes out of the mouth of a Labour politician now it's utter horseshit. The number of people in full time work who are also in poverty* now outnumber those in poverty who are workless. The disconnect between employment/not in poverty began to show up under New Labour - that may tbf be co-incidental, they just happened to be in govt as the long term effects of Thatcherism kicked in. But this is what the whole series of Living Wage campaigns have been about (campaigns that Labour has tried to piggyback on) - the fact that the Minimum wage is so low that it can easily mean that many (most?) workers on it are in poverty. It's a fucking disgrace for Labour to claim that work is a way out of poverty; it isn't now, it wasn't under their 13 years in power and it won't be in the future unless they repeal TU legislation or massively boost the MW - both of which they certainly won't do.

*(by conventional definitions - expect them to be changed soon)

http://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/2012/11/work-poverty-outstrips-poverty-workless-households

 

[fractionMan]

Someone bought me his Chav book for my birthday. Is it worth reading?

 

[treelover]

It’s been an open secret in Labour circles for some time that Miliband’s office have been courting the 29-year-old Independent journalist, with one insider saying Miliband’s senior adviser Stewart Wood has been acting as his “handler”. Although Jones’ writing is seen as being influential, he is also an important link to the unions – via the new union-funded think-tank Class which Jones fronts – and the direct action movement, via the newly formed People’s Assembly Against Austerity.

From Hodges blog, surely this is rubbish, if it is true then Owen has been very disengenous in his role as an 'independent' activist who just supports the LP.

 

[articul8]

I don't think he'll be formally working to orders from Miliband's office - but of course they want to influence him

 

[DotCommunist]

Someone bought me his Chav book for my birthday. Is it worth reading?

yeah its worth a go. Nothing you don't already know but a decent read despite that

 

[butchersapron]

These are the people wood talks to most- the same old bubble.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Someone bought me his Chav book for my birthday. Is it worth reading?

There are lots of opinions on the book contained in this thread.

I personally think the book is garbage and the politics underpinning it worthless/disengenuous. Other than that it's alright.

 

[smokedout]

The number of people in full time work who are also in poverty* now outnumber those in poverty who are workless.

please don't say workless when you mean unemployed

 

[Libertad]

please don't say workless when you mean unemployed

Insidious, this whole vocabulary. See also "welfare", "service users" and all the other wankspeak.

 

[J Ed]

Owen Jones was on This Morning with Nadine Dorries debating 'health tourism', did brilliantly and even got a hilarious jab in at the end while Nadine Dorries tried to be jokey with him, "this is all just a game to you isn't it?" A+++

 

[sihhi]

What can you say:- Ed Miliband, Sunny Hundal, Owen Jones and the resigned Archbishop.

 

[treelover]

what event was that?

 

[DotCommunist]

the archbish looks starving

 

[emanymton]

what event was that?

Some kind of Islamic benefit thing I believe. And the Archbishop probably is starving if it was like the one I went to during the last round of attacks on Gaza. Took them ages to serve the bloody food.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What can you say:- Ed Miliband, Sunny Hundal, Owen Jones and the resigned Archbishop.

Looks like Tariq "two bottles" Ali on t'other table to the right (teehee!) of Williams.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Some kind of Islamic benefit thing I believe. And the Archbishop probably is starving if it was like the one I went to during the last round of attacks on Gaza. Took them ages to serve the bloody food.

Launch of a Ramadan fundraising campaign if its what I think it is...

 

[butchersapron]

Launch of a Ramadan fundraising campaign if its what I think it is...

For what? What do you think that's what it is?

 

[J Ed]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ours-union-links-must-notsucceed-8693653.html

Owen Jones tells the truth about Labour Students and it makes them very upset, anti-Owen Jones nonsense from right-wing Labour Students all over twitter lol

 

[Kid_Eternity]

For what? What do you think that's what it is?

Grammar fail? I know there was a Ramadan campaign launch this week and the photos I've seen look an awful lot like that one. Didn't hear OJ or Sunny was there though...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ours-union-links-must-notsucceed-8693653.html

Owen Jones tells the truth about Labour Students and it makes them very upset, anti-Owen Jones nonsense from right-wing Labour Students all over twitter lol

Brave fella that Owen Jones.

 

[treelover]

Sickening to find out that Jim Murphy supported the welfare uprating bill which massively cut benefits, I seem to recall he spent some time on the dole.

 

[sihhi]

The guy is trying too hard:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/354157030174494720

Mehdi Hasan is a snake too:

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/354184425250107395

(Muslim or Non-Muslim) socialists attacking capitalist charity bash = not standing side by side with British Muslims

 

[caleb]

Hasan seems to be siding with Morsi and the MB in the name of democracy, or am I reading his tweets wrong?

 

[frogwoman]

I do find these capitalist gala dinners for charities a bit sick making to be honest. World Jewish relief do them as well as I am on their mailing list because I helped out with a load of stuff in the past. I wonder how much money goes on the charity galas which are supposed to "raise money" rather than the people that they're meant to be helping. I think Crisis do them as well not sure about others, I'm sure things like Cats Protection etc do too.

Can anyone point me in the direction of any Marxist critiques of the charity sector?

 

[treelover]

You don't have to be a Marxist to be very critical of charities, etc, many disabled people are very very disappointed with how their respective organisations have responded to the benefit reforms and on going misery and how they have been co-opted by the govt, etc.

 

[frogwoman]

You don't have to be a Marxist to be very critical of charities, etc, many disabled people are very very disappointed with how their respective organisations have responded to the benefit reforms and on going misery and how they have been co-opted by the govt, etc.

There's not really all that much about it though, it would be good to read something in depth about it, I keep on wanting to write something about it but I don't have the time/the knowledge to do it. Even in the SP they sometimes shied away from criticising charities too much at times.

 

[butchersapron]

Can anyone point me in the direction of any Marxist critiques of the charity sector?

A Bed for the Night

I hear that in New York
At the corner of 26th street and Broadway
A man stands every evening during the winter months
And gets beds for the homeless there
By appealing to passers-by.

It won’t change the world
It won’t improve relations among men
It will not shorten the age of exploitation
But a few men have a bed for the night
For a night the wind is kept from them
The snow meant for them falls on the roadway.

Don’t put down the book on reading this, man.

A few people have a bed for the night
For a night the wind is kept from them
The snow meant for them falls on the roadway
But it won’t change the world
It won’t improve relations among men
It will not shorten the age of exploitation.

Bertolt Brecht

 

[sihhi]

I do find these capitalist gala dinners for charities a bit sick making to be honest.

But "this is Muslim, allow it, Muslims oppressed" etc etc

 

[frogwoman]

But "this is Muslim, allow it, Muslims oppressed" etc etc

so what? i want to know if i give money to something, i want to know where the money is going. and jews and christians are also oppressed in various parts of the world, if i'm going to give money to something i'd like to know that the money is actually helping people rather than going down owen jones's throat.

 

[J Ed]

But "this is Muslim, allow it, Muslims oppressed" etc etc

Reckon Owen Jones would decline to go to non-Muslim capitalist charity galas?