BBC - Owen Jones
- Thread starter Zabo
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sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
WJR have sent me some ridiculous spam sihhi, including raising money with a "business breakfast with terry leahy"
The fact is that many of these charities especially the larger ones are basically businesses. No matter how "religious" they are.
Apparently WJR combined with IR to make some weird courses for schools
http://www.diversityanddialogue.org.uk/node/204
Diversity and Dialogue was conceived at a meeting of Christian, Jewish, Muslim and secular NGOs in July 2002. They talked about the problems that the Middle East and other conflicts were causing for interfaith relations in the UK and thought about what they could do. Their conclusion was a commitment to run an interfaith education project in partnership: Diversity and Dialogue.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
How come hindu and sikh charities are not involvedor atheist charities for that matter (are there any?)
they are all religions originating in the middle east though - maybe its a "was formerly part of Assyria" thing.
There are lots of secular charities.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Humanist Charities?I know there are - I meant is there Atheist Relief or anything like that
So the answer appears to be no.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
At the entrance for the People's Assembly where Owen Jones was a main speaker. $$$.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It was meant to be a People's assembly - a congress for organising action.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
He's gone international, lefty singer song writer hails lefty Spanish commentator Pablo Iglesias as "the Spanish Owen Jones"
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I know there are - I meant is there Atheist Relief or anything like that
There could never be because atheism isn't a belief system or anything that creates major bonds of commonality.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Or because atheists and secularists are largely happy to work with the religious for charity.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I know there are - I meant is there Atheist Relief or anything like that
But it makes no sense to. The whole point of atheism on a social level is that societies should be secular.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Those courses are still a bit weird though. where are the hindus and sikhs?
wtf is the difference between an interfaith youth group and a normal youth group? surely youth groups should include people of all religions and be accessible to all (no alcohol etc, vegetarian food served and that sort of thing)
sihhi
where are the hindus and sikhs?wtf is the difference between an interfaith youth group and a normal youth group? surely youth groups should include people of all religions and be accessible to all (no alcohol etc, vegetarian food served and that sort of thing)
sihhi
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Those courses are still a bit weird though.
wtf is the difference between an interfaith youth group and a normal youth group? surely youth groups should include people of all religions and be accessible to all (no alcohol etc, vegetarian food served and that sort of thing)
sihhi
Yes I think it's disturbing for it to be stressed in this fashion - it's like announcing the
Equal Opportunities-committed Oxford University
genderinclusive political parties
intersectional socialism
The more you stress it the more of a facade it appears.
Also frogwoman The PD cadre need an intersectional spiel from you for the Workers' Girder to make up the damn quota. Something like this intersectionalist's political programme
My presence in the world provides a different viewpoint that can challenge others, and all the power inherent within that different voice. This is awesome. So when I introduce myself as a queer black fat femme feminist, I cannot present myself in any lesser way. I've been questioned by others on this (mostly white men, unfortunately) that it's a bit much, that I'm putting myself into boxes when I'm just human. My sensible, adult response to that is "fuck off"! I refuse cut myself into smaller parts to fit any longer. It is as damning and extreme as I make that last sentence sound. When I'm in intersectional spaces, my heart glows. I gain something I didn't realise was missing; of which its absence had hurt me so much and caused so much damage.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
This Tisha B'Av ... Think about Oppression. As Usual.
Proletarian Democracy's recent yet welcome forays over the intersectional crossroads, while they have angered some stalwarts of the Barry Mainwaring faction of our Party who still prefer to see everything exactly as it appeared to the Western admirers of Lenin and Trotsky in 1917, with class as the fundamental source of inequality in our society, strike a blow for those within our ranks who have been arguing that in order to become a truly transformatory movement Proletarian Democracy must make smashing the kyriarchical systems which form a tangled web of oppressions for us all, whether they are from the new bourgeoisie or the oppressed proletariat.
Indeed Proletarian Democracy's very name is potentially pandering to unexamined privileges since it excludes those who may not be part of the proletariat, such as New Statesman columnists and editors, and those who do not support democracy - a highly contentious concept in the third world post-colonial setting.
The comrade who requested that I write this piece requested that I do an "intersectional spiel". Well, I will call him out. I will call him out right now and say that I felt oppressed by his cultural appropriation of that word which has formed such an essential part of our culture. What is next, buying and wearing a furry black hat in winter when it is cold, while eating fish and chips? Only days away from a fast which commemorates centuries of oppression, too. Did he know that? I bet he didn't, the bastard.
There are times when, as a westerner enmeshed in a mesh of privilege which benefits me more than it oppresses me, I have to call myself out and reflect on how oppressive my own actions are. Take for example the word I just said, the word "bastard". By using that word I am silencing the voice of people who were born out of wedlock. But by not using it I am allowing myself to hide away when I really need my wrongness to be shown the hell up. That's what intersectionality is about, it is about calling people out and showing them the hell up. Because most of them are too privileged to realise how wrong they are and how they benefit from everything that is wrong in the world, and the ones that are oppressed have the privilege of never having to be called out, so they're benefitting too.
So at this time of year think about how oppressed you are. And then "examine your privilege" and tell yourself what a bad comrade you are for thinking you're oppressed. Because if you're privileged enough to be able to read this, you've benefited from the oppression of people who haven't been able to. And you are. A very bad comrade indeed.
Proletarian Democracy's recent yet welcome forays over the intersectional crossroads, while they have angered some stalwarts of the Barry Mainwaring faction of our Party who still prefer to see everything exactly as it appeared to the Western admirers of Lenin and Trotsky in 1917, with class as the fundamental source of inequality in our society, strike a blow for those within our ranks who have been arguing that in order to become a truly transformatory movement Proletarian Democracy must make smashing the kyriarchical systems which form a tangled web of oppressions for us all, whether they are from the new bourgeoisie or the oppressed proletariat.
Indeed Proletarian Democracy's very name is potentially pandering to unexamined privileges since it excludes those who may not be part of the proletariat, such as New Statesman columnists and editors, and those who do not support democracy - a highly contentious concept in the third world post-colonial setting.
The comrade who requested that I write this piece requested that I do an "intersectional spiel". Well, I will call him out. I will call him out right now and say that I felt oppressed by his cultural appropriation of that word which has formed such an essential part of our culture. What is next, buying and wearing a furry black hat in winter when it is cold, while eating fish and chips? Only days away from a fast which commemorates centuries of oppression, too. Did he know that? I bet he didn't, the bastard.
There are times when, as a westerner enmeshed in a mesh of privilege which benefits me more than it oppresses me, I have to call myself out and reflect on how oppressive my own actions are. Take for example the word I just said, the word "bastard". By using that word I am silencing the voice of people who were born out of wedlock. But by not using it I am allowing myself to hide away when I really need my wrongness to be shown the hell up. That's what intersectionality is about, it is about calling people out and showing them the hell up. Because most of them are too privileged to realise how wrong they are and how they benefit from everything that is wrong in the world, and the ones that are oppressed have the privilege of never having to be called out, so they're benefitting too.
So at this time of year think about how oppressed you are. And then "examine your privilege" and tell yourself what a bad comrade you are for thinking you're oppressed. Because if you're privileged enough to be able to read this, you've benefited from the oppression of people who haven't been able to. And you are. A very bad comrade indeed.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
I dont have the energy to wade through 60 odd pgaes of this . But young jones has appeared on my radar a few times and i didnt think he was all that harmful, mind you i have only the sketchiest knowlege . Could someone please tell me what hes been saying about chavs, as that seems to be an issue here.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Is Ismael Serrano bigging the guy up with or doing him down?
Anyway the imperialism of the British Left wing commentariat continues, this time recolonising the white Commonwealth.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/355073809897893888
About to address the New Zealand trade union youth wing via the wonders of Skype. Exciting! Beer in one hand. I look like a reprobate
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
bigging him up. Both Serrano and Iglesias are pretty close to Jones' sort of politics (except in Spain there's a Left Party, so they don't have to be pro-PSOE by default)
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Is that the Izquierda Unida or someone else? Do they support Batasuna and Basque independence?
I think Owen Jones is very pro-Union.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Yeah, both linked to IU (not sure if they're members or not). The IU isn't really pro or anti independence, I think their policy is "freedom to choose", and their Catalan section is pro-referendum, but they've also referred to the PP as a "factory for making indepedentists".
cantsin
Well-Known Member
people are definitely too ready to attack Jones constantly - his adherence to the Labour Party is mind boggling at times, but the reason it appears so mad is because he seems so sound on so many fronts, always ready to take a (at least vaguely) class based stance on current issues, fights his corner relentlessly against all comers -, of course there's a bit of self aggrandising /the PA's pure hot air/ and I've no idea what his long term contribution to anything in particular will be, but he's young and bright and not-posh ( to use a technical term)and there's no one else out there who's going to be taking on filth like Simon Danzcuk like he does.
FFS cantsin ! "there's no one else out there who's going to be taking on filth like Simon Danzcuk like he does". Actually there's a million genuine Left activists with an actual record of struggle perfectly capable of ripping shits like Simon Danzcuk a second aresehole in any debate ! But they aren't the capitalist media ordained all -purpose slightly Leftie but ultimately extremely mainstream Labour "spokesperson" who alone appears as the self selected "voice of the Left, everywhere, are they ? The capitalist media love Owen Jones - because he looks so unimpressively like a sixth form debating society Leftie, and simply doesn't have the gravitas or aggression to rip bullying blusterers like Danzcuk to shreds in the "managed" environment of TV "debate". He's got no record of personal activism predating his post Chavs fame either - and he's no spring chicken despite his yoof- full appearance, so he SHOULD have a past record of (non remunerated) struggle to match his "radical" rhetoric . Face it, He's simply using the Leftie posturing to build a personal career - leaving his options open as to whether this is just as media pundit (Leftie now - right wing renegade when older) , or also as a Labour MP.
Wake up cantsin, he's so blatant an opportunist, in an endless long line of opportunist self-promoting celebrity Leftie (but eventually renegade rightist) posers, he's practically got it on a big neon sign above his head ! He's not "sound on so many fronts" - he's just mouthing banal middle of the road slightly Left Labour platitudes - and trying to recruit the gullible back to Labour as members and voters.
By the way , cantsin, a treasure map, the real deal - honestly - trust me on this, on lovely authentic parchment, has just come my way. Can I sell it to you for a mere snip at £1000 ?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He's right. Your whole politics is based on him being right ffs.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
lulz, appreciate the sentiments here, but:
1 ) "there's no one else out there who's going to be taking on filth like Simon Danzcuk like he does " = as in , there's no one "out there" in meejah luvvie land , not "out there " in general - I'm making no great claims for OJ, but I see his anger when taking on the likes of Danscuk and Dan Hodges as genuine, and I dont see that elsewhere in the mainstream media - it doesnt make it important , or significant, and of course is to some degree or another the media reacting to changing times with a palatable lefty, but I dont see it as "posturing",.
2 ) " leaving his options open as to whether this is just as media pundit (Leftie now - right wing renegade when older) , or also as a Labour MP. " agreed, but i did say : I've no idea what his long term contribution to anything in particular will be"
3 ) but bearing in mind his mum and dad were both Militant, i dont think his inevitable drift to the right is nailed on t, I dont see that a big trait of Miltant types ( if that's what he is )
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