Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Firky]

I've accompanied a friend twice to an ATOS assessment and then to the first level appeal tribunal.

Always get someone to go with you to assessments and never be daunted from appealing. I know I've posted this before but new people join the thread and can't be expected to read every page.

Just

Good work, the pair of you.

 

[WouldBe]

And anyone know what a witness is allowed to do? Am I allowed to take notes? Am I allowed to say anything? (I'd rather not, but on some occasions he's a bit British about things and might not tell them stuff they ought to know, there's also a risk he'll lose his temper with the alleged 'health care' person...)

ATOS tend to ignore anything a witness says.

You can take notes but don't be suprised if the ATOS bod goes ballistic. They will ask for a copy of your notes.

Definately go in with him. This gains points for supervision.

If he loses his temper he should get extra points for 'anti-social behaviour'.

Hope it goes OK.

 

[yardbird]

I was due for another assessment, another clear money grabbing exercise by ATOS as I'm 65 in February
With my ESA50 I said that I required a home assessment plus recording, as I have short term memory problems.
This was backed by request that they contact Neurologist, Outreach nurse, Physio and Occupational Therapist.
I gave info about the helper who would be in attendance - my sis in law, a retired GP with masses of letters after her name who would take notes and be there to help if I "lost it"!

I got a "given the circumstances we do not find it necessary" letter

 

[existentialist]

Unauthorised recordings

Atos Healthcare is happy to provide an audio recording of an assessment where customers make a request in advance of their assessment. We will terminate the assessment if we become aware that an unauthorised recording is taking place.

Fair enough...assuming that there is no reason to assume that ATOS are being obstructive when it comes to providing authorised recordings.

But...

We believe our staff have the right to work in a safe environment. If any recording is used to intimidate staff or if their personal data is published on-line, this may put their safety at risk. In these circumstances the DWP will be notified and Atos Healthcare reserves the right to take appropriate action.

Note the sly elision of making recordings into "intimidate staff" or "publish[ing] online" information. There are many reasons why a recording might be made, and my suspicion is that intimidation or "publishing online" are the tiniest of minorities of uses to which they could be put. And, in any case, I imagine that that kind of behaviour is more than adequately covered by other forms of legislation.

It also begs the question as to why ATOS might be assuming that people would respond so negatively to them - have they accidentally betrayed themselves in their acknowledgement that what they are doing is so unpopular?

I think the vague non-threat of "appropriate action" is interesting - I imagine that, in law, there would be precious little they could do about "unauthorised recordings", so they are forced to resort to generalised - and, I imagine, legally meaningless - threats. The worst of which is that they will report the infraction to the DWP who will, presumably, do what the DWP always does and terminate someone's benefits.

Please remember, our healthcare professionals are carrying out Work Capability Assessments using standards and criteria that are laid out in government legislation. Where a customer has a concern with the policy or design of the assessment rather than the person carrying it out we ask that this should not be targeted at our staff.

Nice bit of plausible deniability - "any lies we tell or misrepresentations we make are part of DWP policy - take it up with them". While, of course, the DWP is busy saying "we do not conduct the assessments, we only make decisions on the basis of their recommendations". Where's the accountability?

 

[Ganji]

Ello folks.
A mate of mine (Firky) suggested i have a nose around ere as Atos are in the process of trying to send me to work without even assessing me. I've had Crohn's disease pretty bad since i was 13(38 now) which has pretty much left me stuck in the house due to all the other stuff that come's with Crohns ike arthritis, no sleep, not eating and constant pain amongst other things. Last time i was assessed they did a home visit and wrote me off for good. So how they think i'm fit now when i'm a hell of a lot worse than i was i don't know. At the time i got the forms from atos i had just moved doctors so could'nt send any evidence with the forms. I did include 5 pages of notes about my condition's which they just ignored obviously and put me in the back to work group which i am supposed to start attending by the 26th of this month. I am going to apeal the decision but need to get as much info as possible to help with my apeal.
So any help is very much apreciated.
Thanks in advance folks

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Hello Firky's mate

Hope you're not as much trouble as he is?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fair enough...assuming that there is no reason to assume that ATOS are being obstructive when it comes to providing authorised recordings.

But...


Note the sly elision of making recordings into "intimidate staff" or "publish[ing] online" information. There are many reasons why a recording might be made, and my suspicion is that intimidation or "publishing online" are the tiniest of minorities of uses to which they could be put. And, in any case, I imagine that that kind of behaviour is more than adequately covered by other forms of legislation.

It also begs the question as to why ATOS might be assuming that people would respond so negatively to them - have they accidentally betrayed themselves in their acknowledgement that what they are doing is so unpopular?

I think the vague non-threat of "appropriate action" is interesting - I imagine that, in law, there would be precious little they could do about "unauthorised recordings", so they are forced to resort to generalised - and, I imagine, legally meaningless - threats. The worst of which is that they will report the infraction to the DWP who will, presumably, do what the DWP always does and terminate someone's benefits.


Nice bit of plausible deniability - "any lies we tell or misrepresentations we make are part of DWP policy - take it up with them". While, of course, the DWP is busy saying "we do not conduct the assessments, we only make decisions on the basis of their recommendations". Where's the accountability?

W/R/T "appropriate action" from what I recall, as long as you don't publish the recording publicly/make it publicly-available, there's no offence.

 

[Bakunin]

I got a "given the circumstances we do not find it necessary" letter

I haven't even had that yet and it's been six weeks since I last heard anything from ATOS about being assessed.

 

[yardbird]

I haven't even had that yet and it's been six weeks since I last heard anything from ATOS about being assessed.

That's quite normal, I used to phone them every week to check what the score was.
They do not, however, operate to normal human standards.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I haven't even had that yet and it's been six weeks since I last heard anything from ATOS about being assessed.

It took me three months between sending form in and hearing anything from them

 

[Puddy_Tat]

thanks.

I don't think the ancient mini cassette thingy I have is going to be any good for covert recordings, and looking at the links, it's probably a bit late now to request that the session is recorded.

I'm fairly experienced at taking notes (I don't do shorthand - suppose I could pretend to worry them )

Presume this is a bit like going to court as a witness - the more 'respectable' I look the better? (me not friend that is)

and hello @ganji

 

[equationgirl]

@ganji

Welcome - nice to see you on urban

Did you keep a copy of what you sent back to Atos? Also, did you get a copy of the reason(s) why you were put into the group?

 

[Firky]

Ello folks.
A mate of mine (Firky) suggested i have a nose around ere as Atos are in the process of trying to send me to work without even assessing me. I've had Crohn's disease pretty bad since i was 13(38 now) which has pretty much left me stuck in the house due to all the other stuff that come's with Crohns ike arthritis, no sleep, not eating and constant pain amongst other things. Last time i was assessed they did a home visit and wrote me off for good. So how they think i'm fit now when i'm a hell of a lot worse than i was i don't know. At the time i got the forms from atos i had just moved doctors so could'nt send any evidence with the forms. I did include 5 pages of notes about my condition's which they just ignored obviously and put me in the back to work group which i am supposed to start attending by the 26th of this month. I am going to apeal the decision but need to get as much info as possible to help with my apeal.
So any help is very much apreciated.
Thanks in advance folks

Geeza

 

[Frances Lengel]

Ello folks.
A mate of mine (Firky) suggested i have a nose around ere as Atos are in the process of trying to send me to work without even assessing me. I've had Crohn's disease pretty bad since i was 13(38 now) which has pretty much left me stuck in the house due to all the other stuff that come's with Crohns ike arthritis, no sleep, not eating and constant pain amongst other things. Last time i was assessed they did a home visit and wrote me off for good. So how they think i'm fit now when i'm a hell of a lot worse than i was i don't know. At the time i got the forms from atos i had just moved doctors so could'nt send any evidence with the forms. I did include 5 pages of notes about my condition's which they just ignored obviously and put me in the back to work group which i am supposed to start attending by the 26th of this month. I am going to apeal the decision but need to get as much info as possible to help with my apeal.
So any help is very much apreciated.
Thanks in advance folks

Do you mean you have been awarded ESA, but you have to attend the monthly work group meetings, ie you're in the WRAG (Work Related Activity Group), rather than the Support Group? - The Support Group's the one where you're accepted as not being fit for any work. If that's the case, those meetings are meant to be a piece of piss, a mere monthly formality (though that could change in the future), and realistically, you have to be pretty much just a head in a jar to stand any chance of getting in the Support Group.

That's not to say you shouldn't appeal though, you most definitely should - I can't really give any more in depth advice than that. Hope it goes your way though.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Sent of my GL 24 appeal form today - A bit close to the deadline, but it should get there ontime. What I'm a bit worried about is this though - When I got kicked off the sick, I signed on for JSA - Could the jobcentre use the fact that I've appealed against being kicked off the sick coz the decision that I'm fit for work was wrong as a reason to kick me off JSA ( coz I've told JSA I'm fit for work but I've told the appeal form I'm not) and leave me without any income?

 

[kittyP]

I haven't got it in me to read the whole thread but I may be on here a bit from now

 

[Greebo]

I haven't got it in me to read the whole thread but I may be on here a bit from now

Welcome to the thread, sorry you that qualify to be here.

 

[toggle]

I haven't got it in me to read the whole thread but I may be on here a bit from now

let us know what we can do. that is what we are here for.

I am going to apeal the decision but need to get as much info as possible to help with my apeal.
So any help is very much apreciated.
Thanks in advance folks

get as much supporting medical evidence as possible. make sure you signpost what each problem you have means in terms of the descriptors for the asessment criteria.

get someone to go with you to appeal. preferably a welfare specialist, if not then take a mate, preferably someone who can give a reasonable description of how much your condition fucks up your life. do not go alone.

 

[kittyP]

Welcome to the thread, sorry you that qualify to be here.

Cheers and I know

let us know what we can do. that is what we are here for.

Thank you

 

[WouldBe]

thanks.

I don't think the ancient mini cassette thingy I have is going to be any good for covert recordings, and looking at the links, it's probably a bit late now to request that the session is recorded.

I wrote to ATOS when they contacted me and said the session would be recorded due to problems with memory. The first doctor assigned to do my assessment chickened out. The second doctor failed to keep an appointment. In my DLA appeal info ATOS say that the second doctor probably wouldn't have agreed to being recorded either.

 

[Greebo]

I<snip> In my DLA appeal info ATOS say that the second doctor probably wouldn't have agreed to being recorded either.

Oh dear, how sad, never mind. </Windsor Davies>

 

[equationgirl]

Sent of my GL 24 appeal form today - A bit close to the deadline, but it should get there ontime. What I'm a bit worried about is this though - When I got kicked off the sick, I signed on for JSA - Could the jobcentre use the fact that I've appealed against being kicked off the sick coz the decision that I'm fit for work was wrong as a reason to kick me off JSA ( coz I've told JSA I'm fit for work but I've told the appeal form I'm not) and leave me without any income?

Hmmm. Tricky one. Perhaps, if asked, you could say that you were advised to sign on for JSA and leave it at that.

 

[equationgirl]

@kittyP: sorry that you're here, but remember you're not alone.

This thread is here to help, and if you are able to read part of it, you will see that there is real support on this thread, no matter what your questions or worries and that there have been several success stories.

Whatever we can do to help you, we will

 

[Quartz]

All assessments should be recorded.

 

[equationgirl]

All assessments should be recorded.

All assessments should be automatically recorded by a third party independent company, payment by results with deductions for failure to record and recordings given to claimants at the end of the assessment.

 

[yardbird]

As far as the recording situation is concerned - it always was nuts.
In the early days it was even more insane with duplicate machines that (they said) required an engineer to calibrate (!!?).
Lies and bollox.
Then we are told that we have the right to have a recording (this is when they got 12 machines for 42 offices)
Then we are told that we have the right if they can get a working machine to your assessment.
How can you have a right qualified?

 

[ViolentPanda]

As far as the recording situation is concerned - it always was nuts.
In the early days it was even more insane with duplicate machines that (they said) required an engineer to calibrate (!!?).
Lies and bollox.
Then we are told that we have the right to have a recording (this is when they got 12 machines for 42 offices)
Then we are told that we have the right if they can get a working machine to your assessment.
How can you have a right qualified?

You can't, but if they repeat the formula often enough, and with a suitable degree of authority, some people WILL take it as truth, and forego their right.
Usually the same people who believe that the entire process is neutral, right up until they get shat on.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

As far as the recording situation is concerned - it always was nuts.
In the early days it was even more insane with duplicate machines that (they said) required an engineer to calibrate (!!?).
Lies and bollox.
Then we are told that we have the right to have a recording (this is when they got 12 machines for 42 offices)
Then we are told that we have the right if they can get a working machine to your assessment.
How can you have a right qualified?

I thought it was 12 machines for 141/142 offices?

 

[yardbird]

I thought it was 12 machines for 141/142 offices?

Indeed, missed a hundred off -
but I was using the ATOS point-counting technique and software designed by them.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

friend's assessment seemed to go OK this morning - we had decided not to be too unco-operative (so I didn't take written notes)

slightly difficult, as he couldn't remember what he'd put on his form (some months ago) and hadn't taken a copy

the 'health professional' seemed fair and reasonable, so she's either new or good at pretending.

don't know quite how it will go - he is better on most fronts than he was 6 months ago, and did say so (which may have been a tactical error)

I think he's going to get a few 6 point hits on different categories, rather than one 15 point hit. Could well come down to interpretation.

And there's nothing in the assessment about anxiety / depression / fatigue.

Thanks to all for the advice so far. I may be back in a few weeks to discuss appeals...