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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

Bad move IMO. You can't let the buggers win. Perhaps she could request a home assessment? Or ask that an assessment should wait until after the PETT scan?

Oh I know that, and I think she's said she'll only have a home assessment. She had breast cancer over 5 years ago and has since had nearly 20 breast operations plus a pacemaker fitted. She just can't be arsed to fight any more, and I don't think anyone has said she can't have a home visit, I just think she can't be dealing with anyone until she has latest results. She's in bits at the moment worried the cancer's come back and spread
 
Oh I know that, and I think she's said she'll only have a home assessment. She had breast cancer over 5 years ago and has since had nearly 20 breast operations plus a pacemaker fitted. She just can't be arsed to fight any more, and I don't think anyone has said she can't have a home visit, I just think she can't be dealing with anyone until she has latest results. She's in bits at the moment worried the cancer's come back and spread

Oh dear. My parents' neighbour has recurrent breast cancer so I have an inkling of what your friend is going through.
 
Oh I know that, and I think she's said she'll only have a home assessment. She had breast cancer over 5 years ago and has since had nearly 20 breast operations plus a pacemaker fitted. She just can't be arsed to fight any more, and I don't think anyone has said she can't have a home visit, I just think she can't be dealing with anyone until she has latest results. She's in bits at the moment worried the cancer's come back and spread
I hope the results are good. I understand that she only has so much fight in here at the moment - and I think this is what the people behind the benefits system fail to understand. People on benefits aren't living a life of luxury, they're struggling to get through the day because of health issues and not having to worry about losing their homes or paying the bills can have a huge impact of their illness and recovery. Give them more stress and it will undoubtedly kill some of them :(
 
I hope the results are good. I understand that she only has so much fight in here at the moment - and I think this is what the people behind the benefits system fail to understand. People on benefits aren't living a life of luxury, they're struggling to get through the day because of health issues and not having to worry about losing their homes or paying the bills can have a huge impact of their illness and recovery. Give them more stress and it will undoubtedly kill some of them :(

I think if the results are good, she'll pick up. She's just (understandably) in bits at the moment
 
I hope the results are good. I understand that she only has so much fight in here at the moment - and I think this is what the people behind the benefits system fail to understand. People on benefits aren't living a life of luxury, they're struggling to get through the day because of health issues and not having to worry about losing their homes or paying the bills can have a huge impact of their illness and recovery. Give them more stress and it will undoubtedly kill some of them :(

I think they do understand and having people not bother to claim coz it's all such a monumental and degrading hassle is the desired outcome. And if some people end up dead then so be it - I really do think that's the gig.
 
ATOS' Chief Executive, yesterday...

27003119.jpg
 
A friend (bi-polar and assorted stuff including depression that certainly isn't helped by the crap he gets from the benefits system) has an ATOS assessment thingy for continued ESA later this week

:eek:

I've offered to get him there (partly, to make damn sure he does get up and get there, and also think it may be a bit in his favour if he says he needed someone else to make sure he got there)

We're considering whether I should go in with him as a witness / observer - from this thread, I gather that's OK (Is this still the case?) and do we need to tell them in advance?

And anyone know what a witness is allowed to do? Am I allowed to take notes? Am I allowed to say anything? (I'd rather not, but on some occasions he's a bit British about things and might not tell them stuff they ought to know, there's also a risk he'll lose his temper with the alleged 'health care' person...)
 
A friend (bi-polar and assorted stuff including depression that certainly isn't helped by the crap he gets from the benefits system) has an ATOS assessment thingy for continued ESA later this week

:eek:

I've offered to get him there (partly, to make damn sure he does get up and get there, and also think it may be a bit in his favour if he says he needed someone else to make sure he got there)

We're considering whether I should go in with him as a witness / observer - from this thread, I gather that's OK (Is this still the case?) and do we need to tell them in advance?

And anyone know what a witness is allowed to do? Am I allowed to take notes? Am I allowed to say anything? (I'd rather not, but on some occasions he's a bit British about things and might not tell them stuff they ought to know, there's also a risk he'll lose his temper with the alleged 'health care' person...)

Being able to get to the assessment alone has been used against claimants, so your being there can only be a good thing. You don't need to tell them in advance. Nor do you need to say anything - The assessment is between your friend and the assessor. Saying that though, I had my sis with me at mine & one of the things the ATOS "professional" marked me down for was that she "didn't offer any supporting evidence" - Which is bollocks, she was only there to hold my hand and he didn't ask her anything.

Not sure about taking notes, I'm sure someone a bit more clued up will be along shortly though.
Fingers crossed for your pal though.

E2a there's nothing to stop you from prompting your friend if you feel he's not mentioning things that he should be mentioning.
 
@Puddy_Tat: Taking notes is generally viewed as fine from this side of the assessment, and in any case essential for those with any memory issues. There have been issues with notes being presented as evidence at tribunal appeals but recently that seems to have subsided if you present a transcript of the assessment.

It's worth trying to get the name of the assessor if possible but Atos seems to have issued some edict forbidding assessors to give their name and qualifications.

You may find the following link helpful in terms of how his disability may be viewed by the DWP/Atos:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/...al-conditions/bipolar/prognosis-and-duration/

I agree with what Frances has says about getting to the assessment alone, ditto dressing properly and presenting a well-groomed appearance. Used against the claimant by Atos, invariably.

Something to note - Atos have shown the assessors do not seem to grasp that those with mental health disorders have consequent disability. They seem to be of the opinion that if there is no physical disability, there is no problem full stop. Watch out for them concentrating on the purely physical aspects of your friend's disability.
 
@Puddy_Tat: make sure you or he have a list of all the meds he is on.

Out of interest, who filled out the form for him?

Also, don't be surprised if the assessor seems to be following a script or concentrating on the computer more than your friend. They are making sure they can complete the report they need to produce.
 
one of the things the ATOS "professional" marked me down for was that she "didn't offer any supporting evidence" - Which is bollocks, she was only there to hold my hand and he didn't ask her anything.

:hmm: at ATOS

It's worth trying to get the name of the assessor if possible but Atos seems to have issued some edict forbidding assessors to give their name and qualifications.

:hmm: again.

presumably to try and stop people reporting them to the GMC / RCN or whoever...

You may find the following link helpful in terms of how his disability may be viewed by the DWP/Atos:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/...al-conditions/bipolar/prognosis-and-duration/

Thanks. Will have a read of this.

From what friend has said (and to be honest, it's not always all that clear what is going on) he's officially signed off with anxiety and depression - the bi-polar is a relatively recent diagnosis. I think on the one hand he's trying not to get a "not fit for work ever again - sod off and rot" sort of label, but I'm not sure that's doing him favours at the moment.

He's had one (seemingly serious) suicide attempt in the last year, and a couple of occasions he's threatened to, he got the push from his last job because he lost his temper (verbally but fairly comprehensively) with a colleague, and so on...

One reason I want to go is so that I can intervene if it gets to the stage where he tells the assessor to fuck off / walks out.

I certainly need to sort out with him just what grounds he's going on. He's got a few (each one relatively minor) health issues - my inclination would be to throw the bloody lot at them.

Atos have shown the assessors do not seem to grasp that those with mental health disorders have consequent disability. They seem to be of the opinion that if there is no physical disability, there is no problem full stop. Watch out for them concentrating on the purely physical aspects of your friend's disability.

:( :mad:

@Puddy_Tat: make sure you or he have a list of all the meds he is on.

will do.

Out of interest, who filled out the form for him?

don't know - I did offer to assist, but he didn't take me up on that (I live about a 40 minute drive away) - I'll see if he kept a copy
 
@Puddy_Tat

Have a look at the DWP link I posted up. It looks at stability as a measure of disability, which for a condition such a bipolar disorder is more useful than a lot of the 'can you carry a box Y metres' stuff they can use. Now the main goal for Atos is to say he's fit for work. Make sure he tells that about the suicide attempts and suicuidal thoughts in the assessment, as that should indicate that he's not ready to work at the moment.

And don't trust them, however nice they seem. They're not there to help your friend.
 
@bakunin cause he's bipolar and has been through the assessments.

I'm wondering how to fit in the difficulties in controling his temper into this. cause that could be considered associated with bipolar, in that he has difficulties controling the full range of his emotions. at the very lest it is 'disinhibited behavior', but there could be more.
 
he got the push from his last job because he lost his temper (verbally but fairly comprehensively) with a colleague, and so on...

http://www.esahelp.co.uk/mental-assessment.php


Here's the ATOS assessment criteria for workplace interaction with colleagues:



20. Propriety of behaviour with other people.

  1. Has unpredictable outbursts of aggressive, disinhibited or bizarre behaviour, being either:
  2. (i) sufficient to cause disruption to others on a daily basis: or
  3. (ii) of such severity that although occurring less frequently than on a daily basis, no reasonable person would be expected to tolerate them. 15 Points
  4. Has a completely disproportionate reaction to minor events or to criticism to the extent that the claimant has an extreme violent outburst leading to threatening behaviour or actual physical violence. 15 Points
  5. Has unpredictable outbursts of aggressive, disinhibited or bizarre behaviour, sufficient in severity and frequency to cause disruption for the majority of the time. 9 Points
  6. Has a strongly disproportionate reaction to minor events or to criticism, to the extent that the claimant cannot manage overall day to day life when such events or criticism occur. 9 Points
  7. Has unpredictable outbursts of aggressive, disinhibited or bizarre behaviour sufficient to cause frequent disruption. 6 Points
  8. Frequently demonstrates a moderately disproportionate reaction to minor events or to criticism but not to such an extent that the claimant cannot manage overall day to day life when such events or criticism occur. 6 Points
  9. None of the above apply. 0 Points
Hope this might help.
 
And don't trust them, however nice they seem. They're not there to help your friend.

Thanks - we know that bit already, but the rest is good

@bakunin cause he's bipolar and has been through the assessments.

I'm wondering how to fit in the difficulties in controling his temper into this. cause that could be considered associated with bipolar, in that he has difficulties controling the full range of his emotions. at the very lest it is 'disinhibited behavior', but there could be more.

http://www.esahelp.co.uk/mental-assessment.php

Here's the ATOS assessment criteria for workplace interaction with colleagues:


20. Propriety of behaviour with other people.

Hope this might help.

thanks - that sounds the kind of thing I was after.

:)
 
A friend (bi-polar and assorted stuff including depression that certainly isn't helped by the crap he gets from the benefits system) has an ATOS assessment thingy for continued ESA later this week

:eek:

I've offered to get him there (partly, to make damn sure he does get up and get there, and also think it may be a bit in his favour if he says he needed someone else to make sure he got there)

We're considering whether I should go in with him as a witness / observer - from this thread, I gather that's OK (Is this still the case?) and do we need to tell them in advance?

And anyone know what a witness is allowed to do? Am I allowed to take notes? Am I allowed to say anything? (I'd rather not, but on some occasions he's a bit British about things and might not tell them stuff they ought to know, there's also a risk he'll lose his temper with the alleged 'health care' person...)
From what I gather, the trick is to covertly record the session, but take notes (or pretend to). Then you can transcribe your recording, which makes it automatically admissible at tribunal. Maybe if your mate is in on this, it might help him behave well enough for the benefit of the recording, which will probably benefit him in the long run.
 
Best of luck for your friend, Puddy_Tat.

thanks

From what I gather, the trick is to covertly record the session, but take notes (or pretend to). Then you can transcribe your recording, which makes it automatically admissible at tribunal. Maybe if your mate is in on this, it might help him behave well enough for the benefit of the recording, which will probably benefit him in the long run.

I'll think about that - I've got an analogue mini cassette thingy - don't know how good it would be from a coat pocket. I'll have a play with it tomorrow.

I thought that you couldn't use covert recording in evidence? Or do you just mean that my 'contemporaneous notes' will be better?

Will we be in loads of trouble if we get found out, though?
 
thanks



I'll think about that - I've got an analogue mini cassette thingy - don't know how good it would be from a coat pocket. I'll have a play with it tomorrow.

I thought that you couldn't use covert recording in evidence? Or do you just mean that my 'contemporaneous notes' will be better?

Will we be in loads of trouble if we get found out, though?
Atos would likely stop the session if they thought you were covertly recording. Contemporaneous notes are usually ok from what I've seen.

Covert recording normally gets a better reception if you've asked for a session to be recorded, as is every claimant's right, and been fobbed off or told no equipment is available. Again, if there's any type of short-term memory issue recording could be regarded as necessary.
 
I've just got back from a wrag interview thing at the jobcentre.

I didn't realise when the year of contributions run out you have to chase to be income assessed - the starting assumption is that you don't need the money.

I am aware that my WRAG only lasts 365 days but have no idea what that means practically, I've a feeling its related to this.
 
Puddy_Tat said:
thanks

I'll think about that - I've got an analogue mini cassette thingy - don't know how good it would be from a coat pocket. I'll have a play with it tomorrow.

I thought that you couldn't use covert recording in evidence? Or do you just mean that my 'contemporaneous notes' will be better?

Will we be in loads of trouble if we get found out, though?

I think the idea is not to get found out! But yes, you don't disclose the existence of the recording, you use it to generate "contemporaneous" notes. But I think the idea of asking for the session to be recorded is an excellent one, as it gives you a little moral high ground when they refuse and if you do get found out for recording.
 
Unauthorised recordings

Atos Healthcare is happy to provide an audio recording of an assessment where customers make a request in advance of their assessment. We will terminate the assessment if we become aware that an unauthorised recording is taking place.
We believe our staff have the right to work in a safe environment. If any recording is used to intimidate staff or if their personal data is published on-line, this may put their safety at risk. In these circumstances the DWP will be notified and Atos Healthcare reserves the right to take appropriate action.
Please remember, our healthcare professionals are carrying out Work Capability Assessments using standards and criteria that are laid out in government legislation. Where a customer has a concern with the policy or design of the assessment rather than the person carrying it out we ask that this should not be targeted at our staff.
 
I've accompanied a friend twice to an ATOS assessment and then to the first level appeal tribunal.

The first time my friend had an ATOS assessment she went unaccompanied, and was very unhappy with the assessor and how the assessment was carried out. She failed the assessment despite having a progressive condition +

We appealed ie asked them to review the decision. They rejected this and put her onto ESA which also needed an assessment. We appealed the IB review decision to the first level tribunal.

The next ATOS assessment we tried to do things overtly eg recording and taking photographs of the room where the assessment was held. The ATOS assessor went into meltdown and refused to carry on. She'd also gone into meltdown with the previous assessment she'd done. She was also very (unusually, I felt) threatened but at the same time subservient (lols) when I produced a business card to cut short time on introductions etc.

Once we'd been thrown out, I asked the receptionist for details of the complaints procedure which took ages for him to find. At the same time we made it clear that we weren't blaming him, he was just doing his job, ultra polite etc. He was very helpful by way of anecdotal information which wasn't job-costing stuff but helped reassure and made us feel a bit better. I made the point that any delay in the process was the result of how the assessor had behaved and nothing to do with my friend.

When the assessment was rearranged I accompanied my friend again. This time we decided to both record covertly whilst I would overtly take contemporaneous notes to supplement. It was all fine. But bear in mind that this was ESA and that she was already in the appeals process for IB. Anyway, long story short she passed the ESA one so we haven't (yet) needed our recordings and my notes.

The IB tribunal came up and we went prepared with all the documentation from my friend's first unsuccessful assessment and our subsequent request to review the decision with additional supporting medical information. The tribunal was very informal - a bit like the way that employment tribunals were *originally* set up, with the emphasis on informality and accessibility. There was a legally qualified judge and a medical person. No sign of the DWP - apparently they never turn up to these things. They asked me who I was but didn't enquire too closely. They asked my friend some questions - medical ones. She could have referred to all the notes because they were there in front of us but she just answered without doing any of that. The room was just a room with a big table and chairs, it didn't look or feel like a court room. They kept checking our understanding and if we wanted to say more. They emphasised that they were entirely separate from the DWP/ATOS process and were entirely objective. Afterwards we waited in the waiting room for a few minutes before being called back in and told that her appeal had had been successful and that the backdated money should arrive within a few weeks but they couldn't enforce that aspect (it did).

Always get someone to go with you to assessments and never be daunted from appealing. I know I've posted this before but new people join the thread and can't be expected to read every page.
 
i'd definately aggree with your comments on the tribunals. i went with bakunin to his. it is informal, we were all but told they were sick of having to deal with the crap the dwp and atos were throwing their way, and there was a definate feeling that they were looking for ways to find in favour of claimants rather than looking to trip people up so they could refuse.

What they did make clear to us was that they knew all about how shite atos/dwp were, but they weren't there to listen to complaints. they were mainly interted in looking at the eveidence the claimant provided and whether that fit the rules they had to work under. I'd have thought a brief 'my stress related symptoms are worse now than before asessment' is sufficient on that.it isn't the place to describe all the run arround you've had. i'll second being asked who I was, but I wasn't questioned much apart from where I could describe his condition. I'll also say that it was clear to me by about halfway though the hearing what the result was going to be.
 
I am aware that my WRAG only lasts 365 days but have no idea what that means practically, I've a feeling its related to this.
Yeah. I would think so. You get a year of contributions based money and then become income assessed. Except you aren't automatically income assessed - you have to be proactive about getting the form.
 
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