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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

Zippy, it may be worth noting that the 'sick role' model is not intended to be used to model chronic illness:
  • Model fits acute illness (measles, appendicitis, relatively short term conditions).
  • Does not fit Chronic/ long-term/permanent illness as easily, getting well not an expectation with chronic conditions such as blindness, diabetes.
  • In chronic illness acting the sick role is less appropriate and less functional for both individual and social system.
  • Chronically ill patients are often encouraged to be independent.
From my limited reading of this subject, his views are definitely outdated anyway in the context of today's society, so I don't even know why you're bringing up something that doesn't fit.
 
You can start a private conversation if you like, and invite people to join it. That way your privacy is maintained. I'm happy to help wherever I can - especially with research and finding info.

I can confirm that equationgirl and others (whose names I won't mention without permission) have been very generous with their time and advice when I filled mine in
 
and what's that meant to mean exactly ... oh woop some translations include the word 'sympathy' ...<snip>
Primum non nocere - first, do no harm. You should know that, sweetie ie. zippy. Discard that and any therapeutic relationship crumbles because there can be no trust without it.

If you call somebody in for a medical assessment (in itself stressful and arduous) not once every few years, but (as is currently the case) twice or more often per year, you cannot avoid inflicting harm. The assessments inflict harm by costing money to get to - making it more difficult to afford things needed for managing a condition which aren't available on the NHS (eg swimming in a warm pool, an anti-inflammatory diet, adequate heating, appropriate clothing, heat pads etc). That's before you take into account the physical consequences of attending the assessment - additional pain, fatigue and stress, as well as less time for any rehabilitation or condition management.

Moreover, I'm sure that in your capacity as a nurse (is your real name Ratchet, sweetie?), you are fully cognisant that stress and distress exacerbate pain, which in turn raises blood pressure and blood cortisol levels, not to mention depressing the functioning of the immune system, and slowing the time taken for even very minor injuries to heal. Surely you understand that when officials incessantly query your truthfulness about your illness and/or impairments it cannot avoid inflicting harm.

I would also question what on earth you could believe young adults (ie those under 30) ever stood to gain from becoming longtem sick and thereby getting themselves medically retired, when it put an end to the future life they had taken for granted up until then: Trivia such as keeping the job they loved, keeping up with the sports or other activities they enjoyed, a good enough income, the prospect of better accommodation, having children and/or pets.

I concede that that's emotive, sweetie, and yes I'm angry, and right now I have every fucking right to be both, zippy, you crassly insensitive dolt!
 
It would be interesting to know how many if any of the posters so quick with the ad hominems actually have any none -patient experience of healthcare ...
You have really misunderstood the title of this thread, fair enough.
However, now that you know that it's for things to do with ATOS assessments, support and advice, I'm sure that you realise that you've dragged your derail for long enough.
Would you please desist.
Thanks
 
Currently my back problems aren't severe enough to be a problem, but some years ago I had a trapped nerve in my lower back. That was precisely the sort of thing that would leave me completely screwed under the current system. There was no pain. The only noticeable symptom was some numbness in my right foot. And for 6 months I had weekly sessions of traction and had to avoid ANY sudden movement because of the risk of snapping the nerve and permanently losing the use of my right leg. Under current rules that would count as fit to work.
 
Empirical evidence suggests...

Fine. Post links to this "empirical evidence", please.

that whatever the faults in Talcott Parsons' theories; there are , will and remain to be people who 'enjoy' the sick role, find validation in the sick role and resist (often subconsciously) efforts to rehabilitate them ( e.g. the ME 'magic bullet' brigade).

At least you've confirmed where you draw your ideas from, now. You're regurgitating Aylward and his merry band of shills. Well done.

rehabilitation is about making people push themselves ( sometimes quite liderally , pop-pickers ! *jewelry, jewelry , cigar wave *) it's Also about ignoring sympathy - sympathy has little place in a therapeutic relationship - especially one where rehab is the aim .

I went through physical rehab in a military hospital. There was no absence of sympathy there.
Perhaps your relationship to your work is more, to be blunt, instrumental than more compassionate nurses?
 
Zippy, it may be worth noting that the 'sick role' model is not intended to be used to model chronic illness:
  • Model fits acute illness (measles, appendicitis, relatively short term conditions).
  • Does not fit Chronic/ long-term/permanent illness as easily, getting well not an expectation with chronic conditions such as blindness, diabetes.
  • In chronic illness acting the sick role is less appropriate and less functional for both individual and social system.
  • Chronically ill patients are often encouraged to be independent.
From my limited reading of this subject, his views are definitely outdated anyway in the context of today's society, so I don't even know why you're brining up something that doesn't fit.

If you browse the stuff that has come out of Aylward's "research team" at Cardiff (sponsored by Unum Provident!), you'll find the (perhaps once or twice-removed) source of Zippy's philosophy. Professor Sir Mansel Aylward applies the sick role to chronic illness, and has the occasional rant about people with ME who refuse to accept a diagnosis of somatoform disorder (some of us remember the not-too-long-ago rants of similar luminaries against people with MS who refused to accept varied diagnoses ascribing their physical symptoms to mental disorders).

Zippy is (wittingly or unwittingly) acting as a shill for a set of illness beliefs that are propagated by people who knowingly act as shills for the insurance industry and big pharma.
 
It's odd isn't it that plenty of people even with serious illness or quite profound disabilities can mange to hold down jobs with the reasonable adaptation required by the disability discrimination provisions of the Equality Act ...

Oh do fuck off please. Learn to separate the label from the person. Because a person with diabetes can work with no additional help, and a person who has lost a leg through diabetes can work with assistance, it does not mean that somebody who needs daily dialysis due to kidney failure caused by diabetes is therefore fit to work.
 
You seem to be confusing empathy and sympathy there , and also forgetting that rehabilitation is the aim of everyone involved in the management of long term conditions
Yes of course it is. That's why I'm not getting any treatment at all and the medical "professionals" around here can't even be bothered to find out what's wrong.

Then there's pricks like you and the DWP that expect me to be able to go out and get a job. :facepalm:
 
The notion that there is a bio-medical medical intervention just around the corner, (such as a anti-viral) and that as a consequence PWME are not amenable to psychiatric/psychosomatic interventions, such as CBT, graded exercise, etc that the 'Wesseley School' advocate and that they slip into the 'comfortable' role of a sick person claiming benefits, etc, Zippy really is out of order, don't think our resident right wingers would be that callous..



What is the the ME 'magic bullet' brigade?
 
The notion that there is a bio-medical medical intervention just around the corner, (such as a anti-viral) and that as a consequence PWME are not amenable to psychiatric/psychosomatic interventions, such as CBT, graded exercise, etc that the 'Wesseley School' advocate and that they slip into the 'comfortable role of a sick person claiming benefits, etc, Zippy really is out of order, don't think our resident right wingers would be that callous..
:mad: I want to rant, but I won't :mad:
 
Having seen the effects of nursing staff that just don't know how to deal with a person with severe ME and the effects that the "wesseley school" had on my wife's health and now that she is bedbound and less than 25% functional, they don't want anything to do with her because she, like many others, prove their model is seriously flawed. Bunch of, to use a phrase I have learned from this thread, spunktrumpets, I think it was :mad:
 

Grayling quoting Cameron's "tough love" approach to disability and work is telling. Let's remind ourselves that the CEO of Mind, the mental health charity, who stepped down from the scrutiny panel called the system "Inhumane" and as an Atos trainer on the Dispatches programme made clear, 'the process is designed to take people off benefits'. I have the one finger.

grayling-lie-small1.jpg


http://crippencartoons.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/lies-lies-and-more-lies-2/
 
From Benefits and Work

Two disabled people have won the first stage of their legal bid to force the government to improve the much-criticised “​fitness for work”​ test.

The high court this week granted permission for them to bring a claim for judicial review against Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative work and pensions secretary.

The two disabled people, both supported by the Mental Health Resistance Network (MHRN), claim that the work capability assessment (WCA) discriminates against people with mental health conditions.

The WCA was introduced by the Labour government in 2008 but is now a centrepiece of the coalition’​s welfare reforms, and is used to determine eligibility for employment and support allowance (ESA), the replacement for incapacity benefit (IB).

Lawyers for MM and DM –​ who have been granted anonymity by the court –​ say many ESA claims are decided through assessments by healthcare professionals who are not mental health specialists.

They argue that the WCA fails to make reasonable adjustments under the Equality Act for people with mental health conditions, and are calling on the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and Atos Healthcare –​ the private company which carries out the tests –​ to seek medical evidence at the beginning of each claim.

Mr Justice Edwards-Stuart, granting permission for a judicial review, said that it was “​reasonably arguable”​ that “​early obtaining”​ of independent medical evidence was a reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act for claimant with mental health conditions and “​that this has not been done, or at least not done on a sufficiently widespread basis”​.

A judicial review victory will not lead to the WCA being scrapped, but could make it fairer and less stressful for those with mental health problems, while some could be exempted from having to undergo a face-to-face assessment.

Ravi Low-Beer, MM and DM’​s solicitor, from the Public Law Project, said: “​The present system results in many thousands of unnecessary appeals at great public expense, with a high success rate.

“​What is not counted is the cost in human misery for those people who should never have had to go through the appeals process in the first place.

“​This could be avoided if doctors were involved in the assessments at the outset. The government’​s policy of bypassing doctors is inefficient, unfair and inhumane.

“​We gain heart from the court’​s findings that as a matter of law, it is arguable that something has to change.”​

He said he hoped the judicial review hearing would take place later this year.

Dave Skull, an MHRN member, also welcomed the court’​s decision, and said: “​A number of people have been wrongly assessed and misrepresented by the current situation. It is vital that there is some sort of review.”​

He said many people with mental health conditions were in a “​vulnerable position”​ and were experiencing “​incredible anxiety”​ because of the WCA’​s flaws, and added: “​I am supporting a lot of people who are feeling suicidal about the situation with their WCA.”​

The MHRN was formed in 2010 by people claiming IB on mental health grounds, who were concerned about the proposed programme to reassess all those on the benefit for their eligibility for ESA.

Many of the network’​s members have had relapses, episodes of self-harm and suicide attempts, and have needed higher levels of medication and even hospitalisation in the lead-up to their reassessment.

Thousands of people with mental distress have been found unfairly fit for work following their WCA, and while many go on to win an appeal against this decision, some are unable to cope with an appeal, or experience a relapse in their health as a result of the process.

A DWP spokeswoman said: “​Government welfare reforms have a long history of being taken to judicial review so this is little surprise and we will be challenging this claim vigorously.
 
and more from Benefits and Work re recording assessments

Despite this answer, a DWP spokeswoman has now confirmed to Disability News Service that “​although we continue to make reasonable endeavours to accommodate requests for recording assessments, we believe it would be unreasonable to delay the assessment indefinitely for this purpose”​.

She said only a “​very few people”​ would not be able to have their WCA recorded, and added: “​Atos will make every effort to get your assessment recorded but for a very few people that situation cannot go on indefinitely.

“​If there is a particular problem [with arranging the recording equipment] then it may be that you have to proceed with the assessment without recording.”​

She said Atos had ordered some new recorders –​ but could not say how many –​ and would also borrow equipment usually used by DWP to record interviews in cases of suspected benefit fraud.

She added: “​We initially purchased 11 as there were very small numbers who requested recording and on the basis of [a pilot project] the solution seemed reasonable.

“​We are now putting in a revised solution but must balance the still very small number of requests with appropriate use of public money which we will continue to evaluate.”​

Debbie Jolly, a member of the grassroots campaigning organisation Disabled People Against Cuts (DPAC), said that despite the “​Chinese whispers”​ taking place between DWP, Atos and MPs, they all insist that a “​very small number”​ of people request recordings of their WCA.

But she said that early results from a survey launched this week by DPAC and fellow campaigning groups Black Triangle and Social Welfare Union cast huge doubt on this conclusion, with 98 per cent of people who have taken part saying they would like their WCA recorded.
 
The notion that there is a bio-medical medical intervention just around the corner, (such as a anti-viral) and that as a consequence PWME are not amenable to psychiatric/psychosomatic interventions, such as CBT, graded exercise, etc that the 'Wesseley School' advocate and that they slip into the 'comfortable' role of a sick person claiming benefits, etc, Zippy really is out of order, don't think our resident right wingers would be that callous..

The interventions that even the literature published by Wessely and Co, using the most broad definitions of the syndrome they claim to be treating, don't reflect much more than marginal utility?
TBF, you have to be either morally or intellectually-bankrupt to take that research, or any of the multitude of (non-Cochrane!) reviews it spawns, seriously. Flaws to methodology, epistemological inconstancy and poor experimental design are pretty gross faults for any researcher. To repeat the same offences again and again is villainous and/or lazy.

BTW, apparently Wessely has been complaining of being victimised and demonised, because horrid people on the internet point out flaws in his work. Diddums.
 
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