equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
This thread is for support.
Kindly take yourself elsewhere if you aren't prepared to offer support. You may think you're helping but you're not.
Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
Kindly take yourself elsewhere if you aren't prepared to offer support. You may think you're helping but you're not.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
You can start a private conversation if you like, and invite people to join it. That way your privacy is maintained. I'm happy to help wherever I can - especially with research and finding info.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Sadly, in some documented cases the stress has killed them.
They have indeed been documented, and Frankie Jack has listed those deaths on a separate thread.Sadly, in some documented cases the stress has killed them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"IB funded life"?
Back to your old cuntery, I see. Blame the victims.
I understand you were/are a nurse. I feel sorry for your patients being subjected to such a judgemental fuckbag.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Wow, thanks for that insight!
Absolutely true.
I'm perfectly happy to work for any employer who'll put up with me only working when I'm able, missing deadlines and having my work-stream subjected to the whims of my illnesses and disabilities, as are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people in a similar situation.
Guess what? There aren't any employers who'll put up with that.
IB has only existed for 16 years. The predecessor, Invalidity Benefit, was based on entirely different criteria, and people couldn't be "signed off" onto IB.
Not, of course, that they could be "signed off" onto IB, given the rather strict testing regime, but you're not one to let facts stop you vomiting out your ill-informed opinions, are you?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You're compassionless, and you regurgitate the medical line without taking any account of the social side until it suits you.
I'd say she's accurate and being rather polite.
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
You seem to be confusing empathy and sympathy there , and also forgetting that rehabilitation is the aim of everyone involved in the management of long term conditions unless and until someone has a terminal diagnosis when effective palliation becomes the priority.
It's odd isn't it that plenty of people even with serious illness or quite profound disabilities can mange to hold down jobs with the reasonable adaptation required by the disability discrimination provisions of the Equality Act ...
and all because I dared question the morbidity and mortality figures of a subgroup compared to others and the population as a whole -
What the fuck are you slavering on about Talcott Parsons for you spunktrumpet? Been wanking over a Haralambos?
"Terminal diagnosis" is defined for ESA as "less than 6 months"
Sweetie, why don't you just fuck off back under your bridge?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The sick role is a 60 year-old functionalist concept that relies on what sociologists call "ideal types". That is, it's modelled on a very simplistic set of transactions that don't take account of individual difference. It's also a concept that gained currency quite widely outside the discipline of sociology (psychiatrists appear to be especially fond of it, as do politicians), but which gained very little traction in the discipline of sociology, except with other functionalists. Have a ponder through an academic library some time. Peruse a couple of the thousands of articles dissecting Parsons' "sick role", note the credentials of the critics, and then peruse a couple of the hundreds of articles written by Parsons' supporters, and check their credentials. It's an exercise that's always good for a laugh, when you have academic shills for insurance companies as a theory's main source of support.
That you think it's suitable for use to make a point about how people may be conning themselves and others is hilarious, as well as indicative of your prejudices. You've bought into a particular model of long-term sickness and/or disability, and you'll disinter anything that you (or, more likely, people slightly brighter than you) think will support that model.
Pitiful.
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
Empirical evidence suggests that whatever the faults in Talcott Parsons' theories; there are , will and remain to be people who 'enjoy' the sick role, find validation in the sick role and resist (often subconsciously) efforts to rehabilitate them ( e.g. the ME 'magic bullet' brigade).
rehabilitation is about making people push themselves ( sometimes quite liderally , pop-pickers ! *jewelry, jewelry , cigar wave *) it's Also about ignoring sympathy - sympathy has little place in a therapeutic relationship - especially one where rehab is the aim .
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The approach Zippy is attributing is more insidious than that. The sick role posits that we subconsciously "play up" sickness in order to derive maximum benefit (in both senses) from it. Zippy has vommed up several buzz-terms such as "somatic", and "functional overlay" that shills for insurance companies toss around a lot.
Oh, and don't post too much, people, or he'll conclude that you're capable of work on that basis alone.
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
what a suprise sensible discussion and debate is subverted once again on U75 by a fascination for the minutiae of what people write, any opportunity to put ad hominems across across about people who don't follow the entitlement culture .
Am i being really thick here but the morbidity and mortality quoted in the Early day motion is irrelevant without a comparator to other sub groups within the peer group (e.g. ESA recipients who are not required to undertake work related activities, JSA claimants, those in work ) which suggests at least some kind of disproportionate morbidity and mortality among that group vs the others - how many people in work or on JSA suddenly drop down dead of sudden cardiac arrest or have a stroke or other cerebro-vascular event or even get bitten by a bug and die of scepticaemia or get the flipping pig flu ... )
Am i being really thick here but the morbidity and mortality quoted in the Early day motion is irrelevant without a comparator to other sub groups within the peer group (e.g. ESA recipients who are not required to undertake work related activities, JSA claimants, those in work ) which suggests at least some kind of disproportionate morbidity and mortality among that group vs the others - how many people in work or on JSA suddenly drop down dead of sudden cardiac arrest or have a stroke or other cerebro-vascular event or even get bitten by a bug and die of scepticaemia or get the flipping pig flu ... )
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Rehab will rebuild my crumbling spine, will it? You really spout rubbish sometimes.
If you wish to discuss all these issues, start a separate thread. This thread is to support those going through the Atos medical process, not for you to tell them to get back to work.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Not at all.
Rehabilitation for many conditions is limited to "grin and bear it" measures. Pain and symptom management that barely take the edge off, you know this. Rehabilitation to you is a patient leaving your care. Rehabilitation for me and tens of thousands like me is a pat on the shoulder as I leave the hospital and a bag of new meds to try, some of which will add to my problems, rather than helping them.
Plenty of people? Are you stupid?
At the height, employment for us hit around 30% of all people with disabilities, and even then only around 20% of those were moderately to severely disabled.
Oh, and "reasonable adaptations" is a fraught subject to many people like me. What I see as reasonable is very different from what either an employer will offer, or the law will enforce. Any adaptation that an employer can contest as inconvenient goes out of the window, so as you can imagine, the DDA hasn't been quite the source of disability liberation that you or the Daily Mail seem to think.
No, it wasn't what you asked, it was the way you did so.
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
so in other words if you aren't prepared to follow the U75 party line you aren't wanted and discussion is verboten ...
the thread is called " Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support" and it;s in " 'UK politics, current affairs and news' " so questions and rebate about the politics of it all seem to be fair game ...
the thread is called " Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support" and it;s in " 'UK politics, current affairs and news' " so questions and rebate about the politics of it all seem to be fair game ...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"Terminal diagnosis" is defined for ESA as "less than 6 months"
He's not a troll. He's more like Iain Duncan Smith, in that he believes he's right, and that everyone else just needs convincing of the path of righteousness.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
If you want to see facts and figures, read this thread from the start as a lot of information has been posted.
Fuck's sake even the Mirror ran an investigation to find out how many people were dying from this shit!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I said to my wife, all of half an hour ago, that "he'll pull the 'party line bollocks and/or the 'monothought clique' bollocks any time now".
Questions, Answers and Support about Atos medicals, as you could easily have noted if you hadn't come here merely to preach the Gospel of Zippy.
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
oh really ... so perhaps the units i work on ( both my base unit and another different rehab unit within the directorate) achieve nothing, ditto the rehab units within the medical directorate that provide generalised rehab to the local population rather than the regional / supra regional catchment area of the unit I work on ...
again not a pattern i'm familiar with from my own experiences , those of my patients and those of other friends and acquaintances with long term conditions and disabilities ...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And did a comparison between figures for ESA and JSA.
But I doubt Zippy can be arsed to look that up, especially as it'd kick his "argument" (if we can dignify it with that name) in the arse.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
No, the clue's in the title: Atos Medicals - questions, answers and support.
Questions and answers about the process, and support for those going through it. That's how it was set up. It's in this forum because it is a highly political isssue, and it's where the original thread was placed.
Once again, please leave if you're not prepared to support those going through the process.
what a sad fuck you are, quoting a now discredited US(CIA backed?) sociologist and opining on the condition of millions you have never met, sign the hippocratic oath did you?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Did I say you achieve nothing? No, I didn't, but feel free to berate yourself for being useless if it makes you feel better!
I said (and I'll repeat myself, because your comprehension ability seems poor) "rehabilitation for many conditions is limited to 'grin and bear it' measures".
Argue with the points I make, not the points you'd like me to have made, so that your smug rejoinders might actually have some value.
Arse.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
CIA-backed, true. Discredited? Some of his work, definitely, other stuff, no. Friend of Chicago School economists? Definitely.
God, you really are a nasty piece of work, I very rarely resort to personal abuse, but you are a fucking misanthrope who has no business posting on these threads which are for support for people going through what two major docs tonight termed horrendous experiences...
do one...
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
and what's that meant to mean exactly ... oh woop some translations include the word 'sympathy' ...
and again with the ad hominems , especially when all along i've said that there are criticisms and disputes over Talcott Parsons' work ...
But what you haven't done is explain why you think it's acceptable to benefit us with your wisdom on a thread that's solely for the purpose of offering advice and support to those being subjected to ATOS medicals.
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