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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

My partner has had to do a work assessment on the phone. Needless to say, he has failed to get a penny more than the derisory £334 a month and has been told he has 'limited capacity for work'. Not really inclined to list his ailments here apart from saying it is ridiculous that he could do any work at all, frankly. He can barely manage the stairs! Anyway, I guess we have to appeal - any ideas what we should be doing at this stage. His doctor is relatively supportive but has told him that has no problems writing him fit notes...although ATOS have decided he doesn't need any more sicknotes. His 'interview'' took 30 minutes over the phone and he has no clue what grounds for assessment have been made. He is just going through the shock and misery stage right now and gathering his wits to phone a DWP number but is all depressed and hopeless. Obviously, need to appeal but just now, he is feeling very dreary.
 
campanula said:
My partner has had to do a work assessment on the phone. Needless to say, he has failed to get a penny more than the derisory £334 a month and has been told he has 'limited capacity for work'. Not really inclined to list his ailments here apart from saying it is ridiculous that he could do any work at all, frankly. He can barely manage the stairs! Anyway, I guess we have to appeal - any ideas what we should be doing at this stage. His doctor is relatively supportive but has told him that has no problems writing him fit notes...although ATOS have decided he doesn't need any more sicknotes. His 'interview'' took 30 minutes over the phone and he has no clue what grounds for assessment have been made. He is just going through the shock and misery stage right now and gathering his wits to phone a DWP number but is all depressed and hopeless. Obviously, need to appeal but just now, he is feeling very dreary.
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What benefit is he applying for?
 
Looks like you are at the Mandatory Reconsideration stage where you write to them (DWP) and ask them to look at their decision again. Point out where you think that a "phone assessment" was of no use in establishing your partners conditions. Give them more proof if you have any especially letters from consultants, specialists. Do it within a month of the date on the decision letter (have you received one yet?) and make sure they know you are requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration.

Wishing you all the best, stick with if you can, these are the stages where they try to grind us all down.
 
I don't know, Kevbad the Bad . He has been on UC since the start of the pandemic cos he had been self-employed. However, his health is so utterly shit I told him he needed to sign up for any sort of sick benefit whatsoever. He only has the minimum UC and has no other benefits (because off-grid living in a wood). I get ESA and so have a disability premium which means I get around £130 a week and cannot really manage on that so how an ill person is supposed to survive on £80 a week is beyond me. And what if he gets worse?

It was my fault cos I let him do the interview by himself...where he was totally clueless to the trick questions, the nasty trip-ups, the utter callousness of the system and answered as though he was actually trying to fucking minimise his problems (cos he is ashamed). O I am so fucking angry - mostly with myself for not being ahead of the game...and now, after waiting over a year, he gets a letter saying although he cannot work just yet, they think he may be able to in the future (in a fucking cocked hat). He is freaking 9stone, can hardly breathe and a total eccentric loon.

This business where some nurse asks questions over a phone then ticks a box designed to show you in the worst possible light so save the state some money...FFS. Who do we ask for a copy of the report. I have read that even appeals are rarely allowed...it is by no means a given right. I have been out of the benefits lark for a few years and have no idea how it all works now but surely, if his GP says he is too ill to work, some jobsworth at the DWP cannot overrule this...can they? Christ, I feel as though I have let him down and am deathly frightened for winter. As though we get 1 chance...and we have fucked it up.

O thank you, BCBlues - I am fired up and angry to get on it right away.
 
campanula said:
I don't know, Kevbad the Bad . He has been on UC since the start of the pandemic cos he had been self-employed. However, his health is so utterly shit I told him he needed to sign up for any sort of sick benefit whatsoever. He only has the minimum UC and has no other benefits (because off-grid living in a wood). I get ESA and so have a disability premium which means I get around £130 a week and cannot really manage on that so how an ill person is supposed to survive on £80 a week is beyond me. And what if he gets worse?

It was my fault cos I let him do the interview by himself...where he was totally clueless to the trick questions, the nasty trip-ups, the utter callousness of the system and answered as though he was actually trying to fucking minimise his problems (cos he is ashamed). O I am so fucking angry - mostly with myself for not being ahead of the game...and now, after waiting over a year, he gets a letter saying although he cannot work just yet, they think he may be able to in the future (in a fucking cocked hat). He is freaking 9stone, can hardly breathe and a total eccentric loon.

This business where some nurse asks questions over a phone then ticks a box designed to show you in the worst possible light so save the state some money...FFS. Who do we ask for a copy of the report. I have read that even appeals are rarely allowed...it is by no means a given right. I have been out of the benefits lark for a few years and have no idea how it all works now but surely, if his GP says he is too ill to work, some jobsworth at the DWP cannot overrule this...can they? Christ, I feel as though I have let him down and am deathly frightened for winter. As though we get 1 chance...and we have fucked it up.

O thank you, BCBlues - I am fired up and angry to get on it right away.
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I'm sorry you both are going through this. You'll have more success the further you go through the appeals process in my limited experience. I've been to a benefits tribunal with another urban poster and it's worth pursuing.
 
If you can find one in your area, speak to a benefits advisor about your partner's claim. It could be that there is a more appropriate benefit he could go for. But whatever, fight the decision. I know of so many cases where people who obviously qualify for benefits have been denied them, often scoring zero points, only to have the decision reversed. I helped in two cases of family members, taking their case to tribunals. First you have to ask for mandatory reconsideration. Fill in the forms. Be thorough. You don't need to lie, but you need to say how bad things are on bad days. Don't even think about the good days. If the mandatory reconsideration fails, which it probably will, go to appeal and tribunal. It's a real pain, but you have a very high chance of success at tribunal level. It may take a long time. It took a year in both cases I was involved in. But we won, and everyone I know who has fought has won, even getting higher awards than before. Be strong, or as strong as you can be.
 
Definitely try and get some support from a local service. Usually with limited capability to work you get filtered into two different groups and it sounds like he should be in the support group which should also mean he gets some more money.

Also possible he may be eligible for PIP if he doesn't already claim that. I know it's hard to do multiple applications, but if you get in a claim now it will be backdated. Ask for an extension once you get the form and try to get some support with it.

Turn2us have some good guides that I've used a few times.
 
Ah, today has been horrible. He has spent a lot of it in bed while I am sitting in glum despair. It is so hard to fight this shit when you are already ill and weak. I am actually terribly frightened about his health which is failing on multiple counts while he refuses to countenance dealing with the GP (who are still only offering phone consultations and his symptoms are just...vague and overwhelming - it's hard to know where to start. I think he has given up. So sorry to be wobbling on here - I am normally competent and cheery (I know I don't come across like this but honestly, I am an optimist) but yep, it seems bitterly unfair because he is so fucking reluctant to ask for any sort of help at all and just seems stoically prepared to put up with shit. Very tearful and weedy, I'm afraid. So sorry, I know there are so many people worse off than us but I just don't think we can possibly even begin to make ends meet. At least I can work once I get my pension so there's that (although I can't quite see employers queuing up to employ a toothless, shy old bat)...

Who do we ask about getting a report. Should we write a letter to the DWP right away. Sorry, feeling a bit floored and vacant
 
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No need to apologise sounds really stressful. What does it say on the letter you received? Are there currently any expectations for him to work towards employment?

If you wanted to remove the personal details I'd be happy for you to PM a copy of the letter over to me or something.
 
campanula said:
Ah, today has been horrible. He has spent a lot of it in bed while I am sitting in glum despair. It is so hard to fight this shit when you are already ill and weak. I am actually terribly frightened about his health which is failing on multiple counts while he refuses to countenance dealing with the GP (who are still only offering phone consultations and his symptoms are just...vague and overwhelming - it's hard to know where to start. I think he has given up. So sorry to be wobbling on here - I am normally competent and cheery (I know I don't come across like this but honestly, I am an optimist) but yep, it seems bitterly unfair because he is so fucking reluctant to ask for any sort of help at all and just seems stoically prepared to put up with shit. Very tearful and weedy, I'm afraid. So sorry, I know there are so many people worse off than us but I just don't think we can possibly even begin to make ends meet. At least I can work once I get my pension so there's that (although I can't quite see employers queuing up to employ a toothless, shy old bat)...

Who do we ask about getting a report. Should we write a letter to the DWP right away. Sorry, feeling a bit floored and vacant
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Sounds like you are both having a rough time. I think you should definately get onto the DWP about their reasoning. A letter is less stressful, phoning them is a nightmare sometimes. I'd be inclined to just rest now for the weekend, try to build a bit of strength up and then Monday write a short letter asking for written confirmation of their (DWP) decisions. Take it from there. I'm sure others on here will be giving helpful advice too. Keep us updated, dont worry about wobbling we all want to help if we can.
 
TBH, I suspect that the DWP is going to be a dry well. This system was made to treat people like this, and it's been doing it for years. People have killed themselves, and the DWP's only response was to attempt to cover up and hide the figures, even though they had them.

As has been said upthread, the only real option is to try to rise above it, go through the process, get to appeal, and prevail there. It makes me bloody furious to watch this going on - many of my clients are going through the same process - but any one individual is absolutely powerless in the face of a deliberately abusive, implacable system whose only aim is to deprive people of benefits that they are perfectly entitled to.
 
I agree. We have to accept that the DWP is often wrong, probably knowingly and deliberately, because they know that many claimants won't finish the appeal process, because they have no one to help them or they are depressed, confused, sick or don't have long to live. At least we get benefits during the process, and back payments when appropriate. Ministers have tried to take away these protections, and failed. We still have the judges at the tribunals on our side. They know exactly what the DWP and ministers are up to. And we have resources like benefitsandwork. So it could be (even) worse.
 
Oh campanula Im so sorry this is happening to you.
It's utterly shit and demoralising, dehumanising and many other de's what the DWP do to us.
I don't have any advice but fight in any way you can.
Keep talking here too xxx
 
Cado said:
Anybody else worked out that there is something really odd about DWP staff?

ie they're all GCSE failures - they struggle on the absolute basics.
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I suspect there are incentives for them to say no whatever. I have a suspicion DWP (and the Home Office) turns people into monsters, rather than them recruiting “odd” people .
 
Actually, pseudonarcissus,
the frontline workers have been rather lovely. Going out of their way to be helpful and supportive...at least the 'work coaches sweetheart has been dealing with for the last couple of years. However, I am not at all sure that the people doing the ATOS interviews are remotely human, relying on a tickbox system which can be interpreted in various ways (such as 'do you speak to people in your daily life'). Well yes, obviously there will be some interaction in shops...but this is not what the questionnaire really means is it? And answering literally gives these workers an excuse to put the harshest interpretation forward. Supposedly medical professionals who absolutely must have left their medical ethics at the door, even to take a DWP salary based on discrimination and a brutal target system. So yes, while there should be some distinction between the workers and the system, it is not clear cut and unambiguous that any of the workers are actually working on behalf of claimants and instead, are actively complicit with this obviously broken institution which does not prioritise other people over business.
 
I have known a few of the frontline workers and, allowing for the fact that the ones I even see are somewhat bound to be the kinder, gentler types, it's pretty obvious that a lot of them are decent people who are having to do a very unpleasant job, often in places where there isn't much other work available. And, if anyone knows what a life of benefits is going to be like, it's them - it would not be an exaggeration to say that quite a few of them live in some degree of fear, because they know what the system does to people who have to use it.
 
When I was assessed for PIP they repeated the same questions, obviously trying to catch me out. I'd kind of worked out what questions they were going to ask (similar to the form I had to fill in beforehand) and kept going back to notes I had written down. Repeating myself if necessary.

It's dishonest is what it is. And they treat you on the assumption that YOU are the dishonest one. As has been said, tell them what it's like on the bad days (if this is how it is for you), or they won't help you.
 
I've usually found that most DWP staff have been OK and friendly and helpful. ATOS seemingly friendly, but they, or a subsection behind the scenes, are the ones who are nasty and deceptive. At the tribunal level the DWP staff have been apologetic and almost fell over each other to criticise the earlier decisions.
 
So, I am looking at this as an extended process with the initial assessment acting as only the first part of a much longer battle. Any ideas how long this might take? We are going to write the first letter tomorrow (having fortified ourselves with gardening over the weekend) and I am going to claim I am an independent benefits advisor...which is not exactly a lie since I have done many such forms for neighbours in precovid days...back when ESA was still a thing. They did ask my fella if he had any help with the form (he said no) so I think they may be a wee bit more circumspect if they get a whiff that no-one is simply giving up...yet. I have been reading some depressing stats though - the majority of appeals do not actually get further than mandatory reassessment because they can simply refuse to allow you to take it any further. It seems that there is no automatic right to any sort of appeal unless they agree...so fuck knows where you go if they just blow it out the window. Still, one step at a time. I feel I definitely need more advice but our Citizen's Advice are not known for being particularly helpful or dynamic and the drug clinic (CGL) are even worse, with key workers actually unwilling to involve themselves in anything at all ( unless it is signing you up for some fucking ear acupuncture or a (smirk) weekly group chat (which will never, ever occur). Think the GP might be a bit more forthcoming but not really sure how they would get involved as it seems the DWP are very keen to keep everything totally in-house (which seems insane to me - refusing to accept the evidence of an actual GP who has been treating sweetheart for the last few years(reluctantly, on his part, though).

Would it be worth applying for PIP? How likely would it be...to get a PIP award after an ATOS refusal?
 
campanula said:
So, I am looking at this as an extended process with the initial assessment acting as only the first part of a much longer battle. Any ideas how long this might take? We are going to write the first letter tomorrow (having fortified ourselves with gardening over the weekend) and I am going to claim I am an independent benefits advisor...which is not exactly a lie since I have done many such forms for neighbours in precovid days...back when ESA was still a thing. They did ask my fella if he had any help with the form (he said no) so I think they may be a wee bit more circumspect if they get a whiff that no-one is simply giving up...yet. I have been reading some depressing stats though - the majority of appeals do not actually get further than mandatory reassessment because they can simply refuse to allow you to take it any further. It seems that there is no automatic right to any sort of appeal unless they agree...so fuck knows where you go if they just blow it out the window. Still, one step at a time. I feel I definitely need more advice but our Citizen's Advice are not known for being particularly helpful or dynamic and the drug clinic (CGL) are even worse, with key workers actually unwilling to involve themselves in anything at all ( unless it is signing you up for some fucking ear acupuncture or a (smirk) weekly group chat (which will never, ever occur). Think the GP might be a bit more forthcoming but not really sure how they would get involved as it seems the DWP are very keen to keep everything totally in-house (which seems insane to me - refusing to accept the evidence of an actual GP who has been treating sweetheart for the last few years(reluctantly, on his part, though).

Would it be worth applying for PIP? How likely would it be...to get a PIP award after an ATOS refusal?
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Advice on this thread previously has been apply for everything.

Also, mandatory reconsiderations have increased a lot over the lifetime on this thread. But the last time I checked it was something like 69% were successful, and a similar percentage for those forced to appeal.

Unfortunately as you point out this is a long-term thing and sadly it can take many months for things to be overturned. So prepare yourself for a long fight. If you can afford benefits and work it's worth looking into.

Hang in there, there's some good advice on this thread Greebo may she rest in a peaceful forest had awesome things to say.
 
campanula said:
the majority of appeals do not actually get further than mandatory reassessment because they can simply refuse to allow you to take it any further. It seems that there is no automatic right to any sort of appeal unless they agree...so fuck knows where you go if they just blow it out the window.
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware of this. Might be a good idea to double check it by trawling the news section and the forum at benefitsandwork
 
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