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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

Very much what equationgirl has said including the bit where being a thorn in their side can only help and keep a record of everything.

Your query was difficult to answer too as none of us could know or never will what the DWP will do next. It always pays to prepare for the worst case scenario.

I think your best bet would be to follow the advice above in requesting a subject access request as to why you are being denied a home visit and at the same time let the WCA bunch know that you have done so and in which case can they put your appointment/visit back until it is resolved.
Like I say keep proof of everything, if phoning be sure to ask who you are talking to and take a record of time and content of chat.

It's a battle for sure, let us know how proceedings go then we can all learn for the next time.

Have a look too on the excellent Benefits and Work website.

All the best.
 
BCBlues said:
Very much what equationgirl has said including the bit where being a thorn in their side can only help and keep a record of everything.

Your query was difficult to answer too as none of us could know or never will what the DWP will do next. It always pays to prepare for the worst case scenario.

I think your best bet would be to follow the advice above in requesting a subject access request as to why you are being denied a home visit and at the same time let the WCA bunch know that you have done so and in which case can they put your appointment/visit back until it is resolved.
Like I say keep proof of everything, if phoning be sure to ask who you are talking to and take a record of time and content of chat.

It's a battle for sure, let us know how proceedings go then we can all learn for the next time.

Have a look too on the excellent Benefits and Work website.

All the best.
Click to expand...
Thanks

I wish I'd kept the appointment letter from march. You live and learn the hard way with these people unfortunately.

The problem with the request is that it will not be resolved in two weeks

the WCA can't (so they say) cancel the appointment precisely because of this.
 
Rivendelboy said:
Thanks

I wish I'd kept the appointment letter from march. You live and learn the hard way with these people unfortunately.

The problem with the request is that it will not be resolved in two weeks

the WCA can't (so they say) cancel the appointment precisely because of this.
Click to expand...
I think that it's a good idea (from now on!) to treat everything that comes from DWP quite forensically. We know they lie and cheat, and it's quite likely that they operate in a way that they know disadvantages the kind of people they're dealing with, who are, generally speaking, not the sort of people who keep careful records and maintain files.

Start maintaining files. It's one more small way in which you can have an edge on them. They (like the Tax Credits people, whom I have had dealings with) absolutely HATE it when you write to them to point out that their letter contradicts what they said in their letter of 17th ult., and are much more - as the TC fuckers did with us - likely to back down than get into a battle of wits with clearly better-armed people than them. This shit, amid cost-cutting and corner-cutting, is all about low-hanging fruit and easy pickings. If you're too hard to extort from, they'll give up and move onto another victim. Shit, but there it is.
 
Rivendelboy said:
Thanks

I wish I'd kept the appointment letter from march. You live and learn the hard way with these people unfortunately.

The problem with the request is that it will not be resolved in two weeks

the WCA can't (so they say) cancel the appointment precisely because of this.
Click to expand...
Keep EVERYTHING they send you, if only because several posters on this thread have reported multiple contradictory letters on the same event, and it can be nigh on impossible to keep everything straight in your head.

I know you want to trust them to do the right thing, unfortunately they probably won't. Be prepared for lies and dirty tricks.

Take someone with you to your appointment. Do not go alone. They can take notes for you, if you haven't requested the appointment is recorded.

They will watch you as you approach the centre, watch you while you wait and while you depart. They are trying to catch you in a lie. Not because you did lie, but because that's what the system says about claimants, that they all lie.
 
equationgirl said:
Keep EVERYTHING they send you, if only because several posters on this thread have reported multiple contradictory letters on the same event, and it can be nigh on impossible to keep everything straight in your head.

I know you want to trust them to do the right thing, unfortunately they probably won't. Be prepared for lies and dirty tricks.

Take someone with you to your appointment. Do not go alone. They can take notes for you, if you haven't requested the appointment is recorded.

They will watch you as you approach the centre, watch you while you wait and while you depart. They are trying to catch you in a lie. Not because you did lie, but because that's what the system says about claimants, that they all lie.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I understand the latter part. Always good advice though :) Keeping people waiting is also part of the test. The whole thing is, as you know, Orwellian.

Unfortunately for me it's not easy to get someone to come with me.

I would love to see a country wide support network. A community of class conscious comrades who help each other out with these things. Probably cheaper than going by bus (not that I admit that). Chuck in a few quid for petrol and solidarity ftw.
 
Slight update. The Assessment people called me back today (which is something, I guess). As you might expect an utter waste of time. I fi make a formal complaint (and I will) it won't get resolved in time of course. They are just hopeless. They say it's the DWP that have banned them from giving a home visit. I think thats true, from what the DWP have themselves told me, what I don't know is why. However I did point out that, following their no show in march, I asked them not to refer my case back to the DWP (didn't want to have it closed down). The options I was given afte I complained about them not showing up was either they just rebook or refer it back. I said the former. This guy on the phone tells me that they can decide to refer a case back regardless anyway. So in essence I had no say in the matter. They put me in this situation and then chose to fuck me over. I asked him why that decision was made and he pleaded ignorance tell ing me that I'd have to ask, guess who, the DWP. He couldn't (or rather wouldn't) tell me why his organisation had chosen to ignore my request to simply rebook the appointment (their third attempt at a WCA) and refer it back. I call that gaslighting.

That's just my case. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this here, but I'm sure there are people reading whose situation is far worse than mine. I don't even believe I'll pass the WCA. I'm convinced that, now, the whole thing is a waste of time. Maybe it's time to move on. Somehow
 
Rivendelboy said:
Slight update. The Assessment people called me back today (which is something, I guess). As you might expect an utter waste of time. I fi make a formal complaint (and I will) it won't get resolved in time of course. They are just hopeless. They say it's the DWP that have banned them from giving a home visit. I think thats true, from what the DWP have themselves told me, what I don't know is why. However I did point out that, following their no show in march, I asked them not to refer my case back to the DWP (didn't want to have it closed down). The options I was given afte I complained about them not showing up was either they just rebook or refer it back. I said the former. This guy on the phone tells me that they can decide to refer a case back regardless anyway. So in essence I had no say in the matter. They put me in this situation and then chose to fuck me over. I asked him why that decision was made and he pleaded ignorance tell ing me that I'd have to ask, guess who, the DWP. He couldn't (or rather wouldn't) tell me why his organisation had chosen to ignore my request to simply rebook the appointment (their third attempt at a WCA) and refer it back. I call that gaslighting.

That's just my case. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this here, but I'm sure there are people reading whose situation is far worse than mine. I don't even believe I'll pass the WCA. I'm convinced that, now, the whole thing is a waste of time. Maybe it's time to move on. Somehow
Click to expand...
You might well not get enough points first time round (it's not really a pass/fail thing), there are many posters who report zero points first time round, but pursue it through the process and eventually get something including back pay.

They want you to give up. They don't want to pay what you are due.

Put in the subject access request on your case file (do it with the DWP and whoever you are trying to book the appointment with) to see why you can't have a home visit, why you've been banned from having one. That's quite intriguing.

Is this the first time you've gone through the process?
 
equationgirl said:
You might well not get enough points first time round (it's not really a pass/fail thing), there are many posters who report zero points first time round, but pursue it through the process and eventually get something including back pay.

They want you to give up. They don't want to pay what you are due.

Put in the subject access request on your case file (do it with the DWP and whoever you are trying to book the appointment with) to see why you can't have a home visit, why you've been banned from having one. That's quite intriguing.

Is this the first time you've gone through the process?
Click to expand...
No actually. This is a reassessment.

I made a formal complaint with the WCA people via email. I don't imagine they'll do much. Why would they?

I'm really not sure I can go through with attending. I know that sounds stupid, but there are people way worse off than me, medicaly speaking, who fail. I have no supporting evidence either. When it comes to neuro diversity my experience is that the medical profession are no use at all - and that's before mentioning benefits. It seems they are ok with people dying and with telling people they have incurable diseases but when it comes to supporting a benefit claim they want no part of it
 
My brother has just been refused a home visit for UC. Really fuming.
He's around 80% blind after a stroke. Can't walk very far. Has weakness in his left side. He's unable to retain any information at all.
He's suffered mental health problems for a long time. But it's gotten really bad since the stroke.
Apparently despite his gp sending a really good supporting letter for a home visit. Nope. Not good enough reasons. Arseholes.
He was given a paper based assessment last time. So didn't have to attend a f2f.
No idea why they think he's improved sufficiently for a full assessment this time.
His condition hasn't improved. If anything it's worse due to bad mobility causing weight gain. :mad::mad:
 
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xsunnysuex said:
My brother has just been refused a home visit for UC. Really fuming.
He's around 80% blind after a stroke. Can't walk very far. Has weakness in his left side. He's unable to retain any information at all.
He's suffered mental health problems for a long time. But it's gotten really bad since the stroke.
Apparently despite his gp sending a really good supporting letter for a home visit. Nope. Not good enough reasons. Arseholes.
He was given a paper based assessment last time. So didn't have to attend a f2f.
No idea why they think he's improved sufficiently for a full assessment this time.
His condition hasn't improved. If anything it's worse due to bad mobility and weight gain. :mad::mad:
Click to expand...
The lack of parity in power between claimant and system is a huge issue as is the fact all of this (and I include the WCA itself) is largely sans your own involvement. A decision maker, whom you will never meet or speak to, decides for you. WCA people decide for you. I have a huge problem with that

Are there any criteria that exist for a home visit, or is it just on their say so? Could you argue that the assessment centre is unsuitable, because it sounds like it would be
 
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xsunnysuex said:
My brother has just been refused a home visit for UC. Really fuming.
He's around 80% blind after a stroke. Can't walk very far. Has weakness in his left side. He's unable to retain any information at all.
He's suffered mental health problems for a long time. But it's gotten really bad since the stroke.
Apparently despite his gp sending a really good supporting letter for a home visit. Nope. Not good enough reasons. Arseholes.
He was given a paper based assessment last time. So didn't have to attend a f2f.
No idea why they think he's improved sufficiently for a full assessment this time.
His condition hasn't improved. If anything it's worse due to bad mobility and weight gain. :mad::mad:
Click to expand...
That is very bad,
 
Does anyone know how long a subsequent appointment would take to arrange if you cancel one as I understand you are allowed to do, one time. Do you get a say in when it'll be?

I ask because the person who might be able to accompany me is going to be on holiday, thanks
 
I am sorry but I have no idea. It might mean depending on a civilised and nice DWP person, Explain calmly, clearly and very insistently and they will get the idea. All good luck to you! :)
 
Again Rivendelboy its hard to say, we dont know what tricks the DWP have up their sleeves and it can depend very much on where you live and how busy that WCA Centre is and who it is run by (Atos or Capita).
They will try their best I reckon to re-arrange as soon as possible so that they can again refuse your claim and make you go through the even more pointless Mandatory Reconsideration process. Keep battling though, the Appeal stage that follows is the first real look at the DWP antics in each individual case and the first time your real health concerns will be addressed.
 
BCBlues said:
Again Rivendelboy its hard to say, we dont know what tricks the DWP have up their sleeves and it can depend very much on where you live and how busy that WCA Centre is and who it is run by (Atos or Capita).
They will try their best I reckon to re-arrange as soon as possible so that they can again refuse your claim and make you go through the even more pointless Mandatory Reconsideration process. Keep battling though, the Appeal stage that follows is the first real look at the DWP antics in each individual case and the first time your real health concerns will be addressed.
Click to expand...
DWP must really hate that the appeals process exists. I bet they'd love to be judge, jury and executioner.
 
Good luck Rivendelboy. I successfully appealed against them stopping my benefit for 'failing to attend' a face to face they made it really difficult for me to get to (well, they changed their minds before it got to a hearing) , and they gave me another appointment. Persistence and quoting the rules at them is worth a try (I quoted at length from their own decision making handbook, which tbh was open to interpretation, but I was able to prove they were breaking their own rules).

That's awful xsunnysuex. Worth writing to his MP? Or quoting from their rules as I said to Rivendelboy? It's seriously wrong when they won't even listen to a person's GP, the system is pernicious :mad: Good luck, I hope you get this overturned, do they say you can request they look at the decision again?

This was the stuff on having 'good reason' for not attending an assessment https://assets.publishing.service.g...uploads/attachment_data/file/473399/admp6.pdf
 
chainsawjob said:
Good luck Rivendelboy. I successfully appealed against them stopping my benefit for 'failing to attend' a face to face they made it really difficult for me to get to (well, they changed their minds before it got to a hearing) , and they gave me another appointment. Persistence and quoting the rules at them is worth a try (I quoted at length from their own decision making handbook, which tbh was open to interpretation, but I was able to prove they were breaking their own rules).

That's awful xsunnysuex. Worth writing to his MP? Or quoting from their rules as I said to Rivendelboy? It's seriously wrong when they won't even listen to a person's GP, the system is pernicious :mad: Good luck, I hope you get this overturned, do they say you can request they look at the decision again?

This was the stuff on having 'good reason' for not attending an assessment https://assets.publishing.service.g...uploads/attachment_data/file/473399/admp6.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I think in my case (good luck to xsunnysuex) that it's not going to hold any water. I'm trying to get back to the DWP to find out why they've prevented (or even if) a home visit.

tbh in my case I probably could do some work, but the system and support are so shit that it's really difficult. Can't say I find the prospect of going on to UC any more appealing, but I have saved the majority of my ESA for precisely this case. Being dragged into the JC is a real issue for me, I simply don't feel safe in that place (and that was when there was a functioning direct bus route).

This system is so self defeating
 
Rivendelboy said:
On ESA, you get no money during the appeal period. This might not be the case for uc but I cannot confirm as I'm not on it
Click to expand...
Yes, What I meant was that the rate of overturning of DWP decisions by the appeal tribunal must really hurt them. It's obscene that they try to discourage people from appealing by withdrawing any benefits pending the claim.
 
 
I don't want to turn this into the Rivendellboy show, but I've just spoken, again, with the DWP about this. tBF the people there I've dealt with have actually been helpful. Credit where it's due. They spoke with the WCA people who revealed that I have a PV marker on my case. This means "potentially violent"! This has floored me. I'm not violent and in no interaction with them or the DWP have I ever behaved thus. So obviously they aren't attending (even though they were going to) because of this. But this has only recently been added and I don't know why. The only reason I can think of is that the DWP, in going back over the case when the WCA people referred it back in April (which shouldn't have happened), looked at the symptonms I had noted on my ESA50. These include expressing difficulty handling certain situations (I can find social situations hard) and getting easily frustrated. But I had never intended that to be a violent hair trigger or a propensity for physically lashing out. It's just based on my neuro diversity.

I'm really shocked at this.

I asked again about the consequences of non attendance and, while nothing's certain witht these people, they did say that you get your money until they receive your reasons why. Then they stop it unless you have a rock solid case (or presumably don't respond within a certain period). Of course they could just do what they like and stop it, who knows for 100%
 
Rivendelboy said:
I don't want to turn this into the Rivendellboy show, but I've just spoken, again, with the DWP about this. tBF the people there I've dealt with have actually been helpful. Credit where it's due. They spoke with the WCA people who revealed that I have a PV marker on my case. This means "potentially violent"! This has floored me. I'm not violent and in no interaction with them or the DWP have I ever behaved thus. So obviously they aren't attending (even though they were going to) because of this. But this has only recently been added and I don't know why. The only reason I can think of is that the DWP, in going back over the case when the WCA people referred it back in April (which shouldn't have happened), looked at the symptonms I had noted on my ESA50. These include expressing difficulty handling certain situations (I can find social situations hard) and getting easily frustrated. But I had never intended that to be a violent hair trigger or a propensity for physically lashing out. It's just based on my neuro diversity.

I'm really shocked at this.

I asked again about the consequences of non attendance and, while nothing's certain witht these people, they did say that you get your money until they receive your reasons why. Then they stop it unless you have a rock solid case (or presumably don't respond within a certain period). Of course they could just do what they like and stop it, who knows for 100%
Click to expand...
It may well be that it simply suited them to put 2 and 2 together and get 5. "We don't want to do any more home visits than we can get away with, oh look, this person who wants a home visit has difficulty handling social situations, wahey, we have an excuse to turn him down, back of the net, flag him as potentially violent."

Cunts.
 
existentialist said:
It may well be that it simply suited them to put 2 and 2 together and get 5. "We don't want to do any more home visits than we can get away with, oh look, this person who wants a home visit has difficulty handling social situations, wahey, we have an excuse to turn him down, back of the net, flag him as potentially violent."

Cunts.
Click to expand...
Could be, but it was never put on their prior to them actually arranging a home visit in the first place! What an unholy mess. Only thing I can think of doing other than giving up and maybe looking for a job/claiming UC (fun!) would be to ask for a postponment and wait till I can get someone to come with me.
 
Rivendelboy said:
I don't want to turn this into the Rivendellboy show, but I've just spoken, again, with the DWP about this. tBF the people there I've dealt with have actually been helpful. Credit where it's due. They spoke with the WCA people who revealed that I have a PV marker on my case. This means "potentially violent"! This has floored me. I'm not violent and in no interaction with them or the DWP have I ever behaved thus. So obviously they aren't attending (even though they were going to) because of this. But this has only recently been added and I don't know why. The only reason I can think of is that the DWP, in going back over the case when the WCA people referred it back in April (which shouldn't have happened), looked at the symptonms I had noted on my ESA50. These include expressing difficulty handling certain situations (I can find social situations hard) and getting easily frustrated. But I had never intended that to be a violent hair trigger or a propensity for physically lashing out. It's just based on my neuro diversity.

I'm really shocked at this.

I asked again about the consequences of non attendance and, while nothing's certain witht these people, they did say that you get your money until they receive your reasons why. Then they stop it unless you have a rock solid case (or presumably don't respond within a certain period). Of course they could just do what they like and stop it, who knows for 100%
Click to expand...
I think it's even more important that you submit a subject access request to the WCA provider to find out when the pv label was added, by whom and on what basis.

I'm so sorry they did that. I think the situation was probably along the lines laid out by existentialist and done to reduce the number of home visits.
 
equationgirl said:
I think it's even more important that you submit a subject access request to the WCA provider to find out when the pv label was added, by whom and on what basis.

I'm so sorry they did that. I think the situation was probably along the lines laid out by existentialist and done to reduce the number of home visits.
Click to expand...
I can do that, but it won't get resolved before my appointment. To get it removed, they say, will take another request as well.

Honestly, I'm a bit nervous at pulling at this thread. What else will i discover?
 
Rivendelboy said:
I can do that, but it won't get resolved before my appointment. To get it removed, they say, will take another request as well.

Honestly, I'm a bit nervous at pulling at this thread. What else will i discover?
Click to expand...
Probably a pack of lies and inaccuracies - like the claimant with inoperable terminal brain cancer whose report said it was a temporary condition.

Just because it won't get resolved before the appointment, doesn't mean you can't put the request in. Then once you have all the information they have wrong or not, you can file a request to get the inaccurate stuff removed.

I don't think they really think you're violent in any way, it's just a loophole to get them out of doing a home visit.
 
equationgirl said:
Probably a pack of lies and inaccuracies - like the claimant with inoperable terminal brain cancer whose report said it was a temporary condition.

Just because it won't get resolved before the appointment, doesn't mean you can't put the request in. Then once you have all the information they have wrong or not, you can file a request to get the inaccurate stuff removed.

I don't think they really think you're violent in any way, it's just a loophole to get them out of doing a home visit.
Click to expand...
That would also be good grounds to have any decision appealed and have the nutter health professional struck off. :facepalm:
 
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