Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[iona]

Really glad she got the mandatory reconsideration scifisam even though not getting enhanced when she should and your being too ill to go through an appeal is obvs shit. Swear they score tactically by knocking a point off here or there so you *just* don't qualify for standard or enhanced

chainsawjob iirc they've been sending PIP forms out a year before the period recommended at last assessment is up. Good luck with it anyway, we're here if you need advice/support/to vent.

 

[iona]

I have a social care assessment to look forward to at some point (when I get round to completing the referral form ). It can't be as shit as the Atos etc ones, right?

 

[chainsawjob]

I have a social care assessment to look forward to at some point (when I get round to completing the referral form ). It can't be as shit as the Atos etc ones, right?

Hope not iona, wouldn't think so. Good luck with it, and thanks, I didn't know that about them sending out the PIP forms so early, sigh, grrr.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Iona, thanks for asking before The mandatory reconsideration actually awarded her PIP At the lower rate, one point off the higher rate because bizarrely she got no points at all for the communications section, basically because I was there with her and helped with communication. As if you'd give someone no points for mobility because someone carried them in. (Might have happened!)

I'm not going to appeal though because I'm too ill to do it and this at least solves our most pressing potential problems. Next time she gets assessed I'll go with her, sit outside, then let her call me in when she can't tell them her date of birth.

Congrats on the PIP. Really sorry you are too ill to appeal, thats a real shame, but I understand that the mental /emotional effort is just huge. This is how they grind people down, the process shouldn't be so arduous, gggrrrrh!
Whats the time scale on requesting an appeal - does anyone know? is there any possibility that its something you might be able to look at when you feel stronger?

Friendofdorothy, am I right in assuming your GF only gets DLA or PIP? They're not actually affected by income at all. If you do decide to fill in the ridiculously long form for possible ESA payments it won't move her onto UC or affect her PIP.

Thanks Sam. She was on DLA, then Incapacity, which became ESA in the support group, not qualified for anything else because of my income. She was just a little paranoid, but with just reason, she didn't want to put her head above the parapet in case it prompted them to reassess her. Its all ok though. Thank you x

 

[friendofdorothy]

I have a social care assessment to look forward to at some point (when I get round to completing the referral form ). It can't be as shit as the Atos etc ones, right?

hope it goes well and you get the help you need.

 

[friendofdorothy]

in the context of benefits, a partner does not have to be married / civil partnered (it's about the only time the state does recognise 'common law' partners - although same sex partners were not recognised by the benefits system until civil partnership became a thing in 2005 - before then this generally worked in favour of same sex couples as one partner could claim means tested benefits even if partner was on a good wage)

Thank you for advice and hugs Puddy_Tat

Yes the law worked slightly in our favour for a little while as grlf got ill in 2004. I never lied but if the forms said as you living as husband/wife etc we answered honestly 'no'. Having campaigned for equality all my adult life - I was miffed that it finally arrived at the one time in our lives that we were relying on benefits. Bad timing.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I think there's something going on whereby the DWP incorrectly re assessed incapacity benefit to esa claims and they have been made to pay people back any shortcomings.
It sounds similar to your case. I've found this on Benefits and Work website which is linked but I recall seeing a smaller article, I'll try to find it later.

DWP surrenders on ESA backdated payments
Category: Latest news
Created: 19 July 2018
The DWP has finally surrendered and agreed to repay ESA claimants all the money that was unlawfully withheld from them, it was announced yesterday. The u-turn follows the publication of a highly critical report by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

In March of this year we reported that the DWP failed to award income-related ESA to around 70,000 claimants who were transferred from incapacity benefit to contribution-based ESA from 2011 onwards.

Affected claimants are owed between £2,500 and £20,000 each.

However, the DWP had insisted that they were only legally obliged to repay underpayments from 21 October 2014, when the upper tribunal first ruled that contribution-based and income-based ESA are a single benefit and that the DWP has a duty to assess claimants for eligibility to both types of ESA when a claim is made.

This meant that underpayments from before this date all the way back to 2011 were simply being ignored by the DWP.

The PAC report, published yesterday, accused the DWP of multiple failures:

“It failed to design a process that reflected its own legislation. It failed to subject that process to proper scrutiny. It failed to listen to its own staff, claimants, or external stakeholders and experts who told it things were going wrong and that it needed to slow down. And it failed to act even when it was painfully obvious that it was underpaying a significant number of people, taking over six years to take the necessary corrective action.”

Committee Chair, Meg Hillier MP, commented:

“Indifference has no place in the delivery of vital public services. It must be rooted out wherever it is found.

“The Department needs to explain what it is doing to improve both its management culture and its ability to gather and act promptly on critical intelligence.

“It must also set out how it will more quickly address the £1.7 billion of underpayments claimants miss out on each year.

“Half-hearted Whitehall targets offer no comfort to people struggling to make ends meet because of Government mistakes."

Within hours of the report being published, Esther McVey, secretary of state for work and pensions, made a statement saying that the DWP would be backdating ESA payments all the way to 2011. Claimants who have already received their backdating will have their case reviewed again to see if they are entitled to any more money.

Child Poverty Action Group, which had launched a legal challenge to the DWP’s original decision to limit backdating, welcomed the u-turn.

However, the DWP is still refusing to pay compensation for consequential losses, such as loss of free prescriptions, free dental care and free school meals.

That was very informative - explains everything - thank you!

 

[scifisam]

Congrats on the PIP. Really sorry you are too ill to appeal, thats a real shame, but I understand that the mental /emotional effort is just huge. This is how they grind people down, the process shouldn't be so arduous, gggrrrrh!
Whats the time scale on requesting an appeal - does anyone know? is there any possibility that its something you might be able to look at when you feel stronger?

Thanks Sam. She was on DLA, then Incapacity, which became ESA in the support group, not qualified for anything else because of my income. She was just a little paranoid, but with just reason, she didn't want to put her head above the parapet in case it prompted them to reassess her. Its all ok though. Thank you x

DLA and PIP aren't dependant on income though. The application for PIP is horrible and long but it is also a fair whack of money - probably worth considering at some point.

 

[chainsawjob]

Brown envelope yesterday, PIP reassessement, it's less than a year since I got through the last one (moving from DLA). Fuck this. Took it rather badly yesterday. Moving towards not letting the bastards grind me down today

It really is shit. I'm putting it off til after the weekend.

I finally dealt with the brown envelope of doom last week (I rang just before the return deadline, before Christmas, and they gave me an extra 2 and a half weeks). The whole thing put me in a downward spiral mh-wise, at my worst time of year anyway, and I just couldn't even look at it until Christmas was over. Done now anyway. It wasn't quite the whole thing (as when I first applied for PIP), the form wanted to know if anything had changed, but it was all the same questions (with a couple sneakily re-worded/changed emphasis slightly) and still a bloody long form, so I basically put what I'd put last time with a few more bits for clarification. It was unnerving not having to send copious additional supporting evidence, as they didn't want anything I'd sent before, and I don't have any new evidence to send (wasn't up to asking for any, maybe I should have done ). I might still ask one new mh professional I'm seeing to write me something I can send in, I've already asked and they're willing to. So yeah, as far as I can tell, it's 'has anything changed', rather than complete reassessment, but I'm sure the outcome can still be they stop my benefit, and although it says 'answer this or we might have to see you face to face', I reckon they'll still want to see me regardless.

I also got, in December, the same form you got friendofdorothy about maybe being owed more ESA from the switch from IB. I don't think I am (I got 'top-up' payments at the time, so my ESA wasn't less than the IB had been). And frankly fuck that to giving them details of all our income going back (would be near impossible anyway), so I've just ignored it. Might send it back saying partner was earning (even though he was unemployed a fair while), just can't deal with the headfuck. Hope yours got sorted in the end, I expect they make it as tortuous and lengthy a process as possible to deter people, as they do with everything

Did you get your social care assessment iona?

 

[chainsawjob]

Came across this the other day Bungling DWP announces seventh review of disability benefits errors in a year

The latest review is necessary because of an upper tribunal ruling in the case of a claimant moving from disability living allowance (DLA) to personal independence payment (PIP) who had his DLA stopped because he had failed to attend an Atos face-to-face assessment.

The upper tribunal found that the claimant, OM <snip> had “good reason” for not attending the PIP assessment that the government contractor Atos had told his wife he would have to attend in one of its London centres.

The upper tribunal found that OM should have his DLA reinstated until a final decision was made on his PIP claim, while he should also receive backdated payments from the date DWP stopped his DLA.

This is exactly what happened to me when I switched from DLA to PIP! Had my DLA stopped and my PIP claim ended for failing to attend without 'good reason'. I was on the point of going to tribunal to appeal this decision when they thankfully decided to offer me another appointment, having presumably been persuaded I did have 'good reason' after all. It was all the advice and support I got on this thread that made me stick with it and oppose them, and persist in applying for PIP I'd have given up at that point otherwise, and I wonder how many others in that situation did

These reviews they do though, it's only grudgingly cos they're forced to, they don't really 'mean it', and they'll still make it as hard as possible for people to get redress They rely on people giving up because it's all too difficult

 

[iona]

Did you get your social care assessment iona?

Not yet, only put the referral in last month. Been told they have a long waiting list and I'm not an "urgent" case so could be a while till I hear anything. Ta for asking

Glad you've got that form out the way now, fingers crossed they won't want you in for a face-to-face reassessment.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I finally dealt with the brown envelope of doom last week (I rang just before the return deadline, before Christmas, and they gave me an extra 2 and a half weeks). The whole thing put me in a downward spiral mh-wise, at my worst time of year anyway, and I just couldn't even look at it until Christmas was over. Done now anyway. It wasn't quite the whole thing (as when I first applied for PIP), the form wanted to know if anything had changed, but it was all the same questions (with a couple sneakily re-worded/changed emphasis slightly) and still a bloody long form, so I basically put what I'd put last time with a few more bits for clarification. It was unnerving not having to send copious additional supporting evidence, as they didn't want anything I'd sent before, and I don't have any new evidence to send (wasn't up to asking for any, maybe I should have done ). I might still ask one new mh professional I'm seeing to write me something I can send in, I've already asked and they're willing to. So yeah, as far as I can tell, it's 'has anything changed', rather than complete reassessment, but I'm sure the outcome can still be they stop my benefit, and although it says 'answer this or we might have to see you face to face', I reckon they'll still want to see me regardless.

I also got, in December, the same form you got friendofdorothy about maybe being owed more ESA from the switch from IB. I don't think I am (I got 'top-up' payments at the time, so my ESA wasn't less than the IB had been). And frankly fuck that to giving them details of all our income going back (would be near impossible anyway), so I've just ignored it. Might send it back saying partner was earning (even though he was unemployed a fair while), just can't deal with the headfuck. Hope yours got sorted in the end, I expect they make it as tortuous and lengthy a process as possible to deter people, as they do with everything

Did you get your social care assessment iona?

Glad you were able to finally face it.
Hope its all ok for you - fingers crossed x

 

[chainsawjob]

Thanks friendofdorothy

Thanks iona

 

[equationgirl]

Well done chainsawjob the forms are such a headfuck x

 

[chainsawjob]

Thanks equationgirl

I don't think I got a report after my last medical, or it's buried somewhere, so that's my task this week, to obtain one, so I know what points I got last time. Once I've sent a form in, or got a decision, I tend to shove everything out of sight somewhere, my paperwork is rather disorganised. I should take pics of letters when I get them, for when I inevitably lose track of them

 

[equationgirl]

Thanks equationgirl

I don't think I got a report after my last medical, or it's buried somewhere, so that's my task this week, to obtain one, so I know what points I got last time. Once I've sent a form in, or got a decision, I tend to shove everything out of sight somewhere, my paperwork is rather disorganised. I should take pics of letters when I get them, for when I inevitably lose track of them

I put things in a safe place, then can't remember where that is. I like your idea of taking a photo as soon as they come in.

 

[chainsawjob]

I just thought of that equationgirl! I do it for other important documents and stuff.

 

[passenger]

My PIP runs out in April this year, I cancelled two appointments because I wanted
a home visit they said I had to go them, they sent me a letter for an appointment
but I had to cancel this so I was told I would get another letter for a new meeting
but never got a letter still being paid this has been going for 6 months what should I do
Thanks... in advance.

 

[iona]

Did they say you'd be sent another appointment after you cancelled the second one passenger? Was that six months ago and you've had no letters about your PIP since?

 

[Paul007]

CAB have just published some new research:




Aren't there some cases where they've declared someone too ill to work when wearing their occupational health hats, and then found the same person fit to work when they applied for ESA?

They make there own rules

 

[passenger]

Did they say you'd be sent another appointment after you cancelled the second one passenger? Was that six months ago and you've had no letters about your PIP since?

Yes correct seems a bit odd iona

 

[iona]

Yes correct seems a bit odd iona

I think officially you're only meant to be allowed to cancel one appointment (unless you have a good enough reason presumably, I can have a look for the rules later if you want). You were told they'd send you a new appt though so I'd just mention that on the phone and that you've still not heard anything rather than going into detail.

Not sure what'd happen if you just keep on ignoring it, probably they'd stop your money in April then you'd have to go without it until you got a new assessment sorted. That's just a guess though.

 

[passenger]

They told me it was ok to cancel it i called a few months ago and they said a letter
would come re another assessment and all was ok iona

 

[iona]

They told me it was ok to cancel it i called a few months ago and they said a letter
would come re another assessment and all was ok iona

That was the second time you cancelled an appointment they said that? Might well be ok, it seems to be hit & miss whether they bother enforcing that rule and I don't know what reasons you gave for either cancellation.

I'd be phoning to chase it up personally though after hearing nothing for six months, especially if they could (afaik) stop your PIP in April.

 

[passenger]

I'd be phoning to chase it up personally though after hearing nothing for six months, especially if they could (afaik) stop your PIP in April.

Good advise was thinking the same

 

[chainsawjob]

ESA now being reassessed on top of being in the middle of PIP reassessment. Shit.

 

[iona]

Sounds like a plan passenger, hope the call goes ok.

ESA now being reassessed on top of being in the middle of PIP reassessment. Shit.

Shit, sorry to hear that mate. They take so fucking long though, hopefully there'll not actually be that much overlap. What stage you at now with both?

 

[chainsawjob]

Thanks iona. I just got the ESA50 yesterday. The PIP, I'm expecting a letter about a face to face appointment any day now, depending on how backlogged they are. It's been a few weeks since I returned the form.

Getting the ESA letter as well, I just felt ready to give up. It just all makes me nosedive.

 

[iona]

Thanks iona. I just got the ESA50 yesterday. The PIP, I'm expecting a letter about a face to face appointment any day now, depending on how backlogged they are. It's been a few weeks since I returned the form.

Getting the ESA letter as well, I just felt ready to give up. It just all makes me nosedive.

Do you know when your PIP runs out? They can—and have been, I've heard—get in touch for reassessment a year before that date so might be a while till your appointment, if that makes you feel any better. (Not actually asking you to dig through your paperwork and tell me the date, just fyi)

Can anyone help you with the ESA50? Friend/family member or a support worker or benefits advisor?

 

[iona]

Heard back about my social care referral btw. They sent an email asking me to complete the online form that I had to complete to refer myself

Need to see when my support worker's about to phone them now, so they can decide how urgently they need to see me.