Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Wilf]

ash scifisam Wilf yous had any news yet?

Nope. I think they said mandatory reconsideration 'normally' takes 2-6 weeks. Have a vague memory I requested it on the 22nd September, so it's just about 2 months now. They also took longer to make the original decision than was the case in their guidelines.

 

[iona]

Nope. I think they said mandatory reconsideration 'normally' takes 2-6 weeks. Have a vague memory I requested it on the 22nd September, so it's just about 2 months now. They also took longer to make the original decision than was the case in their guidelines.

Ah, hope you get a (positive!) response soon then

 

[chainsawjob]

That's great news iona.

Hope you hear from them soon Wilf.

 

[equationgirl]

Excellent news iona

Here's hoping for something positive soon Wilf

 

[ash]

ash scifisam Wilf yous had any news yet?

Thanks for asking he got higher rate care and mobility and a long period (I can’t remember exactly) until re- assessment so good news. Now just got to wait to see if they decide to roll out UC to people on CB ESA but that’s another story.
Well done on your re-entry into the support group (sounds strange to be congratulating on such a thing but thats what we’ve become - eh).

 

[equationgirl]

Nice to hear some good news ash

 

[ash]

Nice to hear some good news ash

Thanks equationgirl - he got a dreaded brown envelope today asking him to apply to see if he is entitled to income based ESA (he isn’t). It tempts people in by saying ‘you may be entitled to additional benefits’. Interesting timing imo - I’m sure it’s a sneaky ploy to get people onto ‘New ESA’ which is basically UC.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Its been a few years since the grrrlf had her last 'medical' and she lives in dread of the next summons. The other day a big fat brown A4 form sized envelope arrived, and when I came home I found her hiding under a blanket.

I opened it - it is ESA3 (IBR) 06/18 form, with a letter that said:

We need to look at your claim to decide if you might also be eligible for income related ESA from 16 Nov 2013. If you are you may be entitled to extra payments. These are call premiums

the 45 page form wants to know all about my person income etc etc etc for the last 5 years.

So as it sounds unconnected to assessments, presumably this is good? Why are they wanting to assess the last 5 years? is this related to us getting civilly partnered in 2013 - I did inform them at the time.
Any one else had these? Anyone know where can I find more info/ links / advice on whether its worth me filling it in? Many thanks.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Thanks equationgirl - he got a dreaded brown envelope today asking him to apply to see if he is entitled to income based ESA (he isn’t). It tempts people in by saying ‘you may be entitled to additional benefits’. Interesting timing imo - I’m sure it’s a sneaky ploy to get people onto ‘New ESA’ which is basically UC.

sorry I've only just read this - is it a ploy to move to UC?

 

[ash]

sorry I've only just read this - is it a ploy to move to UC?

Me being cynical thinksit could be. Even if your not entitled you may apply just in case and then could it be seen as a new claim? Interesting?! I wouldn’t punt it past them.

 

[ash]

sorry I've only just read this - is it a ploy to move to UC?

There was a whole new claim form in the pack so it would be seen as a new claim I think.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Me being cynical thinksit could be. Even if your not entitled you may apply just in case and then could it be seen as a new claim? Interesting?! I wouldn’t punt it past them.

Yes I wouldn't put it past them either. The idea of 5 years of back paid premiums is enticing. Even if she is entitled to something I'd think twice about filling in 45 pages about my money as well as hers.

Does any know any more? I can't image we would qualify.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Always always always seek independent advice and a benefits check from a CAB or law centre or see if any charities relating to medical conditions have welfare rights advisers, eg Mind have staff/volunteers who help people with benefits claims and check your entitlement and can help you make sure you get what you're entitled to.

 

[ash]

Yes I wouldn't put it past them either. The idea of 5 years of back paid premiums is enticing. Even if she is entitled to something I'd think twice about filling in 45 pages about my money as well as hers.

Does any know any more? I can't image we would qualify.

There is an opt out form which we completed you
Just tick if your partner works 24 hours a week or if you have savings of £16,000 and one other criteria which I can’t remember.

 

[BCBlues]

Its been a few years since the grrrlf had her last 'medical' and she lives in dread of the next summons. The other day a big fat brown A4 form sized envelope arrived, and when I came home I found her hiding under a blanket.

I opened it - it is ESA3 (IBR) 06/18 form, with a letter that said:
the 45 page form wants to know all about my person income etc etc etc for the last 5 years.

So as it sounds unconnected to assessments, presumably this is good? Why are they wanting to assess the last 5 years? is this related to us getting civilly partnered in 2013 - I did inform them at the time.
Any one else had these? Anyone know where can I find more info/ links / advice on whether its worth me filling it in? Many thanks.

I think there's something going on whereby the DWP incorrectly re assessed incapacity benefit to esa claims and they have been made to pay people back any shortcomings.
It sounds similar to your case. I've found this on Benefits and Work website which is linked but I recall seeing a smaller article, I'll try to find it later.

DWP surrenders on ESA backdated payments
Category: Latest news
Created: 19 July 2018
The DWP has finally surrendered and agreed to repay ESA claimants all the money that was unlawfully withheld from them, it was announced yesterday. The u-turn follows the publication of a highly critical report by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

In March of this year we reported that the DWP failed to award income-related ESA to around 70,000 claimants who were transferred from incapacity benefit to contribution-based ESA from 2011 onwards.

Affected claimants are owed between £2,500 and £20,000 each.

However, the DWP had insisted that they were only legally obliged to repay underpayments from 21 October 2014, when the upper tribunal first ruled that contribution-based and income-based ESA are a single benefit and that the DWP has a duty to assess claimants for eligibility to both types of ESA when a claim is made.

This meant that underpayments from before this date all the way back to 2011 were simply being ignored by the DWP.

The PAC report, published yesterday, accused the DWP of multiple failures:

“It failed to design a process that reflected its own legislation. It failed to subject that process to proper scrutiny. It failed to listen to its own staff, claimants, or external stakeholders and experts who told it things were going wrong and that it needed to slow down. And it failed to act even when it was painfully obvious that it was underpaying a significant number of people, taking over six years to take the necessary corrective action.”

Committee Chair, Meg Hillier MP, commented:

“Indifference has no place in the delivery of vital public services. It must be rooted out wherever it is found.

“The Department needs to explain what it is doing to improve both its management culture and its ability to gather and act promptly on critical intelligence.

“It must also set out how it will more quickly address the £1.7 billion of underpayments claimants miss out on each year.

“Half-hearted Whitehall targets offer no comfort to people struggling to make ends meet because of Government mistakes."

Within hours of the report being published, Esther McVey, secretary of state for work and pensions, made a statement saying that the DWP would be backdating ESA payments all the way to 2011. Claimants who have already received their backdating will have their case reviewed again to see if they are entitled to any more money.

Child Poverty Action Group, which had launched a legal challenge to the DWP’s original decision to limit backdating, welcomed the u-turn.

However, the DWP is still refusing to pay compensation for consequential losses, such as loss of free prescriptions, free dental care and free school meals.

 

[friendofdorothy]

There is an opt out form which we completed you
Just tick if your partner works 24 hours a week or if you have savings of £16,000 and one other criteria which I can’t remember.

trouble is I have worked less than 20 hours and neither/ nor both of us have have 'savings' of over 16K which are the only they mention in the letter. But I'm not sure what they are counting as 'savings' as the questions ask about allsorts of stuff. Have rules about partners income changed?

I remember years ago, before 2007 civil partnerships came in, my income stopped the grrl qualifying for most income related benefits - she had, I think, council tax benefit and free prescriptions as those forms explicitly asked questions about your Man/husband/married - which obviously I am not. She didn't qualify for any benefits were the forms said partner/cohabitee and asked about my income. When they asked about any changes I had make an embarassing phone call, to ask 'what does living as if civilly partnered mean?'. Some one asked lots of questions about who did the washing up and what the neighbours thought. Aparently it meant an end to those benefits too. Oh the romance.

 

[chainsawjob]

Brown envelope yesterday, PIP reassessement, it's less than a year since I got through the last one (moving from DLA). Fuck this. Took it rather badly yesterday. Moving towards not letting the bastards grind me down today

Sorry I haven't said anything friendofdorothy, my first thought was it's the backpay from when they fucked up when people were switched from Incapacity to ESA. Hope so. Sorry haven't read everything that's been said since you first posted about this.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Brown envelope yesterday, PIP reassessement, it's less than a year since I got through the last one (moving from DLA). Fuck this. Took it rather badly yesterday. Moving towards not letting the bastards grind me down today

Sorry I haven't said anything friendofdorothy, my first thought was it's the backpay from when they fucked up when people were switched from Incapacity to ESA. Hope so. Sorry haven't read everything that's been said since you first posted about this.

Sorry to hear that. I thought they weren't supposed to keep doing re assessments so often. Do assessors or the type of illness a person has indicate when re assessment should happen - does anyone know what the rules about this are?

Wishing you the strength to deal with the bastards what ever happens.

Mean time I've put the form to one side til I find out more, I need to do some serious research. Can't imagine they want to give us more money.

 

[equationgirl]

Sorry to hear that. I thought they weren't supposed to keep doing re assessments so often. Do assessors or the type of illness a person has indicate when re assessment should happen - does anyone know what the rules about this are?

Wishing you the strength to deal with the bastards what ever happens.

Mean time I've put the form to one side til I find out more, I need to do some serious research. Can't imagine they want to give us more money.

Now I did read something about them underpaying, there's been a court case about it, so it does seem legit. That said, I understand the reticence to give them more information, I would be very sceptical too.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Now I did read something about them underpaying, there's been a court case about it, so it does seem legit. That said, I understand the reticence to give them more information, I would be very sceptical too.

Even if I might qualify, filling in the 45 page form is daunting. Particularly when it asks for a single 'amount' in umpteen different types of savings and accounts. What? a single figure for a 5 year period? doesnt say highest/ average or amount on a particular date - no idea how to fill that in.

There's a number to ring 'if you have questions about letter' which I want to call for info as a spouse/ helper/ PA / representative on earth - though the grrlf is worried even this will remind them she exists and will prompt a reassessment.

 

[friendofdorothy]

There's a number to ring 'if you have questions about letter'

I rang it this morning - thank fully to the grlfs relief they didn't ask my name, her name or any details.

I asked is it about savings or income limits - we dont have much savings and I don't work over 20 hours but my level of income used to prevent grlf from qualifying before. She said it depended on the level of my income. When I said that the letter only mentions 'savings over £16,000' not income, she said it should be 'income over £16,000'. She seemed surprise the letter did not say this.

it asks for a single 'amount' in umpteen different types of savings and accounts. What? a single figure for a 5 year period?

she said they want it completed with the amounts from the one date 5 years ago they mention in the letter.

So not ' details of your circumstances from blah date 2013 to now' as the letter says. or '...have since the date we've put on the front of this form' as it says above the questions in the form. The form repeatedly says '.. since the date we've put on the form' in nearly all qs in the form.

Seems odd that phone advice and letter say such different things. I may phone again to see if they still say the same thing.

 

[Jackobi]

I asked is it about savings or income limits - we dont have much savings and I don't work over 20 hours but my level of income used to prevent grlf from qualifying before. She said it depended on the level of my income. When I said that the letter only mentions 'savings over £16,000' not income, she said it should be 'income over £16,000'. She seemed surprise the letter did not say this.

It sounds like she does not know what she is talking about. The £16,000 saving limit is relevant as that is the capital limit for working age people receiving means-tested benefits.

 

[friendofdorothy]

It sounds like she does not know what she is talking about. The £16,000 saving limit is relevant as that is the capital limit for working age people receiving means-tested benefits.

But they ask a awful lot of questions about income - is there an income limit for partners of people applying for means-tested benefits?

 

[Jackobi]

But they ask a awful lot of questions about income - is there an income limit for partners of people applying for means-tested benefits?

There is no specific limit, it depends on your household circumstances and what other benefits you receive if any. It is not a simple case of X earns Y therefore there is no entitlement. The letter is correct in that it specifies a hard limit of £16,000 in savings as that amount in savings would disqualify a single person/couple from receiving any means-tested benefits at all, any savings above £6,000 but below £16,000 would affect full entitlement and result in a reduction. Any savings below £6,000 are irrelevant as they are disregarded.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I've just followed the links on the Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) and found this calculator Where you live which was very helpful

 

[ash]

I've just followed the links on the Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) and found this calculator Where you live which was very helpful

Interesting thanks

 

[Puddy_Tat]

But they ask a awful lot of questions about income - is there an income limit for partners of people applying for means-tested benefits?

in answer to this specific, then yes and no. any means tested benefits consider the income / savings of both partners. in the context of benefits, a partner does not have to be married / civil partnered (it's about the only time the state does recognise 'common law' partners - although same sex partners were not recognised by the benefits system until civil partnership became a thing in 2005 - before then this generally worked in favour of same sex couples as one partner could claim means tested benefits even if partner was on a good wage)

but as Jackobi has said, the 'limit' for income related benefits will vary according to age / circumstances (and where rent / council tax are involved, what they are)

i was about to suggest the benefits calculator on 'entitled to' - if your income is borderline for the two of you to get means tested benefits as a couple, then it might be worth making a claim. if it's some way above, then it's not going to be worth the effort.

and at the risk of stating the obvious, housing benefit / council tax reduction are not 'all or nothing' - if you get means tested benefits from DWP then you'd get maximum on housing benefit / council tax reduction, if your income is a bit higher than that you might still get something

and when I came home I found her hiding under a blanket.

 

[scifisam]

Friendofdorothy, am I right in assuming your GF only gets DLA or PIP? They're not actually affected by income at all. If you do decide to fill in the ridiculously long form for possible ESA payments it won't move her onto UC or affect her PIP. And it might actually be worth looking into housing benefit or council tax reduction anyway if you don't get them.

Iona, thanks for asking before The mandatory reconsideration actually awarded her PIP At the lower rate, one point off the higher rate because bizarrely she got no points at all for the communications section, basically because I was there with her and helped with communication. As if you'd give someone no points for mobility because someone carried them in. (Might have happened!)

I'm not going to appeal though because I'm too ill to do it and this at least solves our most pressing potential problems. Next time she gets assessed I'll go with her, sit outside, then let her call me in when she can't tell them her date of birth.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

for anyone dealing with this shit

 

[chainsawjob]

Glad to hear your outcome scifisam, sorry to hear you're too ill to appeal. How frustrating it was one point short of the higher rate, and crap that they assessed her communication abilities like that It's so harsh and inhumane.

Cheers for the sympathies to all dealing with this shit fishfinger, appreciated. Hope you're doing ok. It really is shit. I'm putting it off til after the weekend (which I will need all my reserves to deal with).