Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[ViolentPanda]

As for holidays, yes, we're going to Ireland, but we get special assistance at the airport to the departure lounge as the walk is too far and we are picked up at the other end.

Minnie, Minnie, Minnie!

That's not a holiday, that's "visiting the family", which is MUCH MORE hard work than going on holiday!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Minnie, Minnie, Minnie!

That's not a holiday, that's "visiting the family", which is MUCH MORE hard work than going on holiday!

Too bloody right.

5 sisters, two brothers, 14 nephews and nieces and a wedding to slot into the few days that we're there and military precision planning for the trip. Call that a holiday And Stansted, aarrrggh

 

[ViolentPanda]

Too bloody right.

5 sisters, two brothers, 14 nephews and nieces and a wedding to slot into the few days that we're there and military precision planning for the trip. Call that a holiday And Stansted, aarrrggh

Well quite! If someone asks me about holidays, I say "none" (in 19 years we've had 2 holidays, 1 in 2008 which was our belated honeymoon, and one in 2011), because I can't see how the stresses of visiting rellies for more than a few hours is any sort of break, for the person with disabilities or their partner and carer.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Well quite! If someone asks me about holidays, I say "none" (in 19 years we've had 2 holidays, 1 in 2008 which was our belated honeymoon, and one in 2011), because I can't see how the stresses of visiting rellies for more than a few hours is any sort of break, for the person with disabilities or their partner and carer.

I hope they don't ask questions like that. Not sure how I'd explain a holiday in Malaysia (where we got taxis everywhere, and he spent most of the day in the water as it was lovely for him not to have to walk)

Haven't been anywhere for years (since 2008) though

 

[ViolentPanda]

I hope they don't ask questions like that. Not sure how I'd explain a holiday in Malaysia (where we got taxis everywhere, and he spent most of the day in the water as it was lovely for him not to have to walk)

Haven't been anywhere for years (since 2008) though

And that's obviously because himself's health hasn't allowed it, isn't it? In fact, even these dutiful visits to his family really take it out of him, don't they?

 

[tufty79]

I also noted in the appearance at his assessment they look for nicotine stained fingers?

Why is that relevant? Are they going to strike you off next because you're smoking and drinking?

Maybe they'll be wanting to examine bowels movements next to check on what you're eating

fwiw, i wasn't asked in mine about *what* i eat (just about where/how i get my food from, cooking ability etc). i did get asked what i drink every day though (in a non-booze sense). can't remember them asking anything about smoking.
the person who came to it with me also got asked to confirm/verify some of my answers (eg how often they see me, what my mood's like. there was one question i took too long in answering, so the hcp just asked my companion instead - proper 'does she take sugar?' moment ).

good luck with it all minnie x

 

[Jackobi]

Yes. You need at least 15 points to be put in the WRAG group. Less and you're expected to fuck off and get a job. More and there's a possibility of being allocated to the "top" group, where they (supposedly) leave you the fuck alone.
Hope that makes things clearer.

It doesn't quite work like that. There are two sets of descriptors, one set for the WRAG and one set for the Support Group. Meeting all criteria for each WRAG descriptor (x points) still equates to eligibility for the WRAG. In order to qualify for the Support Group, one or more descriptors relating to that group's eligibility criteria must be met.

 

[yardbird]

fwiw, i wasn't asked in mine about *what* i eat (just about where/how i get my food from, cooking ability etc). i did get asked what i drink every day though (in a non-booze sense). can't remember them asking anything about smoking.
the person who came to it with me also got asked to confirm/verify some of my answers (eg how often they see me, what my mood's like. there was one question i took too long in answering, so the hcp just asked my companion instead - proper 'does she take sugar?' moment ).

good luck with it all minnie x

I don't think that they can ask direct questions of a companion/helper - everything should have been asked through you and you should be able to consult your companion if needed.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

And that's obviously because himself's health hasn't allowed it, isn't it? In fact, even these dutiful visits to his family really take it out of him, don't they?

Well that's the truth, insurance is sky-high for all the conditions he's got! And yes, the visits do genuinely take it out of him. The main street in his little town is hilly. It's only a tiny high street, but my legs are even fucked after going up it a couple of times

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I don't think that they can ask direct questions of a companion/helper - everything should have been asked through you and you should be able to consult your companion if needed.

Well they won't get many reliable replies if they rely on his answers

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It doesn't quite work like that. There are two sets of descriptors, one set for the WRAG and one set for the Support Group. Meeting all criteria for each WRAG descriptor (x points) still equates to eligibility for the WRAG. In order to qualify for the Support Group, one or more descriptors relating to that group's eligibility criteria must be met.

I've done the self-assessment test and here's snippets


HOW DID YOU ASSESS YOURSELF?
Did you assess yourself as being eligible for the support group on the grounds of:
a) Exemption: NO
b) Descriptors: YES
c) Exceptional circumstances: YES

Did you assess yourself as being eligible for the work-related activity group on the grounds of:
a) Exemption: NO
b) Points: YES
c) Exceptional circumstances: YES



WORK-RELATED ACTIVITY GROUP: POINTS
You assessed yourself as being eligible for the work-related activity group because you scored 15 or more points.
You assessed yourself as scoring a total of 108 points for the following:

However, these points may be reduced as I wasn't sure how to answer them.

ie. 15 (b) Is unable to get to a specified place with which the claimant is familiar, without being accompanied by another person. 9
Well he can go to local shops on his own as they're all in his long-term memory as he's lived in the area for years, but although he knows where King's College is, once he's there he doesn't know where he's going, despite visiting regularly.

7 (a) Cannot understand a simple message due to sensory impairment, such as the location of a fire escape. 15

Well yes, he could understand it when told, but if the alarm went off, he wouldn't remember where he'd been told it was unless there was a big sign in front of him saying "fire escape that way". This is the reason whenever he's admitted to hospital, they either give him his own room or put him in a ward in a bed next door to the toilet or one opposite a toilet so he doesn't get lost

 

[tufty79]

I don't think that they can ask direct questions of a companion/helper - everything should have been asked through you and you should be able to consult your companion if needed.

yep, my companion told them that he wasn't the right person to ask.
just remembered one of the other questions that was a bit 'eh?' - whether i had a mobile, how i pay the bill (as in what method, rather than how i afford it), and who i call on it (and again, my companion got asked how often i rang *them*, even after i'd answered the question). maybe it's not that odd, i don't know any more

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

yep, my companion told them that he wasn't the right person to ask.
just remembered one of the other questions that was a bit 'eh?' - whether i had a mobile, how i pay the bill (as in what method, rather than how i afford it), and who i call on it (and again, my companion got asked how often i rang *them*, even after i'd answered the question). maybe it's not that odd, i don't know any more

Manual dexterity maybe?

He knows to press and hold No. 2 to contact me.... only because it's written on the back of the phone. Other than that, he doesn't know how to use it, although he did actually manage to dial a number once and was dead proud he'd managed to do it. Never done it since though

Why do they want to know how you pay bill I wonder?

 

[tufty79]

i got asked about how i paid household bills as well.
i'm guessing it's see whether i'm capable of doing basic maths/tasks

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

i got asked about how i paid household bills as well.
i'm guessing it's see whether i'm capable of doing basic maths/tasks

Maybe if you say online they figure you know your way around a keyboard

 

[tufty79]

good point (although they covered that when they asked about my previous jobs).
the whole thing was purely questions-based, and there wasn't a single bit of the 'can you pick a coin up'/'how much can you bend your leg' stuff that i was expecting...

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

They're just nosy fuckers

 

[tufty79]

i'm on esa for MH stuff, so that'd explain why they didn't concentrate on physical problems, and why just about every other bit of every day life got picked apart.
i was really glad that someone came with me to it, but it was really humiliating talking about everything (esp some of the darker bits) in front of them. otoh, i disintegrated enough when i got out of there - if they'd not come along, i don't think i'd have actually *got* to the assessment, and don't like to think what i would've been like without them there.

 

[yardbird]

i got asked about how i paid household bills as well

The correct thing here is for the helping companion to ask if that question is on the LiMA software and what are the drop down options

 

[Jackobi]

I've done the self-assessment test and here's snippets


WORK-RELATED ACTIVITY GROUP: POINTS
You assessed yourself as being eligible for the work-related activity group because you scored 15 or more points.
You assessed yourself as scoring a total of 108 points for the following:

However, these points may be reduced as I wasn't sure how to answer them.

This highlights my point, that it is possible to score 108 points for WRAG but still not qualify for the Support Group. Although, it does seem to indicate a strong possibility that WRAG eligibility will be granted, rather than bordering on 15 points in a self-assessment. Depending on how many points the questions you are unsure of score, it appears that he still easily reaches the minimum of 15 points required for WRAG eligibility. Unfortunately, I don't think that self-assessments are an accurate reflection of the actual ATOS process.

 

[Greebo]

good point (although they covered that when they asked about my previous jobs).
the whole thing was purely questions-based, and there wasn't a single bit of the 'can you pick a coin up'/'how much can you bend your leg' stuff that i was expecting...

Trying to lull you into a false sense of security, innit?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

i'm on esa for MH stuff, so that'd explain why they didn't concentrate on physical problems, and why just about every other bit of every day life got picked apart.
i was really glad that someone came with me to it, but it was really humiliating talking about everything (esp some of the darker bits) in front of them. otoh, i disintegrated enough when i got out of there - if they'd not come along, i don't think i'd have actually *got* to the assessment, and don't like to think what i would've been like without them there.

How long did it take? That link to the guy that equationgirl put up (the minor brain tumour one) was well over an hour. I think it was nearer to an 1.5 hours. Must feel more like an interrogation

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

This highlights my point, that it is possible to score 108 points for WRAG but still not qualify for the Support Group. Although, it does seem to indicate a strong possibility that WRAG eligibility will be granted, rather than bordering on 15 points in a self-assessment. Depending on how many points the questions you are unsure of score, it appears that he still easily reaches the minimum of 15 points required for WRAG eligibility. Unfortunately, I don't think that self-assessments are an accurate reflection of the actual ATOS process.

I realise that, and I think B&W does, but I think they're just trying to give you an idea what to expect

 

[Greebo]

<snip>i was really glad that someone came with me to it, but it was really humiliating talking about everything (esp some of the darker bits) in front of them. otoh, i disintegrated enough when i got out of there - if they'd not come along, i don't think i'd have actually *got* to the assessment, and don't like to think what i would've been like without them there.

That sounds like an ordeal and a half! Just as well you had somebody with you, an extra pair of eyes and ears (in case something is lied about on the report) is always useful anyway.

FWIW VP has been close to collapsing at the end of even DLA medicals done at home, which tend to be less bad than (what was) the IB assessment.

 

[tufty79]

Trying to lull you into a false sense of security, innit?

i'm really not sure - the one i had about three years ago *did* have a bit of physical stuff, which is why i assumed it'd happen again...

How long did it take? That link to the guy that equationgirl put up (the minor brain tumour one) was well over an hour. I think it was nearer to an 1.5 hours. Must feel more like an interrogation

it was about an hour in all. i came out of it feeling brokener (which i didn't think was possible), and assuming that i was going to be put on jsa. in the end, i stayed put in the work related activity group.

edit for clarity: i was on esa a few years back and the atos assessment put me in the WRAG. i started doing voluntary work, then managed (in terms of relatively coping with my condition, and also being lucky enough to be offered a job) to get back into paid work proper, then had a fuckinghugerelapse, couldn't continue with my job, and my esa claim was reopened. the recent assessment i had was in january this year.
i assumed i was going to be put onto jsa because they didn't include any of the physical questions - i thought that this meant they'd already got me down as a 'no' and they didn't see the point in continuing with a full assessment <-- stupid brain.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

i'm really not sure - the one i had about three years ago *did* have a bit of physical stuff, which is why i assumed it'd happen again...


it was about an hour in all. i came out of it feeling brokener (which i didn't think was possible), and assuming that i was going to be put on jsa. in the end, i stayed put in the work related activity group.

So do you work now?

What type of jobs do they send you to?

I reckon himself could get a job rubber-stamping ESA forms

 

[tufty79]

So do you work now?

What type of jobs do they send you to?

I reckon himself could get a job rubber-stamping ESA forms

i'm not working at the moment, but i'm trying to get myself to the point where i can - still not quite there..
all the WRAG means at the moment is seeing my 'employment advisor' every six weeks. i started seeing him in february, and since then i've managed to start doing a day a week voluntary work (when i told him that, i thought he was going to pat me on the head ). i've also got his ok to try for permitted work (i applied for a 1-day-a-week job but didn't get it), but there doesn't seem to be any pressure from the dwp end of things at all.

 

[Jackobi]

I realise that, and I think B&W does, but I think they're just trying to give you an idea what to expect

I'm sure that you do, and I don't think it is possible to be over-prepared for these sneaky fuckers, good luck.

 

[toggle]

i'm on esa for MH stuff, so that'd explain why they didn't concentrate on physical problems, and why just about every other bit of every day life got picked apart.
i was really glad that someone came with me to it, but it was really humiliating talking about everything (esp some of the darker bits) in front of them. otoh, i disintegrated enough when i got out of there - if they'd not come along, i don't think i'd have actually *got* to the assessment, and don't like to think what i would've been like without them there.

I went along to bakunin's appeal hearing to support him. i was fine there, but ended up stopping an weebling in a layby on the way home.

 

[Greebo]

all the WRAG means at the moment is seeing my 'employment advisor' every six weeks. i started seeing him in february, and since then i've managed to start doing a day a week voluntary work (when i told him that, i thought he was going to pat me on the head ). i've also got his ok to try for permitted work (i applied for a 1-day-a-week job but didn't get it), but there doesn't seem to be any pressure from the dwp end of things at all.

Good to hear that it's more or less worked out alright for you, tufty.