Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I can't find the original link BUT I stumbled across the following one:
http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatosmedicalreport.html

Read the section on Breach of Contract - given the complexities of his condition, he MUST be seen by a practitioner experience in neuro disorders in order to receive a fair assessment.

I ended up reading almost the whole thing! What bit of "I need easy reading" didn't you get equation girl? Only joking. This guy's certainly done his homework hasn't he.

Not sure if this is relevant to cancer (as in any cancer) or neuropsychiatry though as I'm afraid after reading the whole lot, I started drifting off towards the end

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I've found the original links, the DWP have an odd way of categorising brain/head injuries. The first link gives (briefly) the types of people competent to give a report on the patient's condition:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/.../organic-brain-disorders/sources-of-evidence/
This link gives guidance on how long benefits should be awarded for, based on the severity of the head injury)bottom table):
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/...ganic-brain-disorders/prognosis-and-duration/

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/...ganic-brain-disorders/prognosis-and-duration/

Well he's classed as having severe short-term memory loss

This link may help you with the words to write on the form:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/...c-brain-disorders/head-injury-intro-obd.shtml
From what you've said, most of the words in the bottom link could be used in your b/f's case.[/quote]

That's fantastic. He has the majority of those (although luckily not disinhibition!), so that's a great help. Not sure what this is

• Changes in affect (flat affect, inappropriate emotions and mood)

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

PS: You are a little diamond equationgirl for digging out all this info for me. Although I've done the forms before, no harm having all this info to hand to remind me what to put rather than having to dig around and look at old claim forms, but these links are better at explaining than I am

 

[equationgirl]

PS: You are a little diamond equationgirl for digging out all this info for me. Although I've done the forms before, no harm having all this info to hand to remind me what to put rather than having to dig around and look at old claim forms, but these links are better at explaining than I am

It's no trouble at all, Minnie, I want to help people as much as I can on this issue. Anything I can help you find just let me know - and giving the DWP stuff back in their own words will make it harder for them to argue back.

 

[equationgirl]

I ended up reading almost the whole thing! What bit of "I need easy reading" didn't you get equation girl? Only joking. This guy's certainly done his homework hasn't he.

Not sure if this is relevant to cancer (as in any cancer) or neuropsychiatry though as I'm afraid after reading the whole lot, I started drifting off towards the end

It's relevant to both, I think, but hey, the guy only had a 'mild brain tumour'.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It's relevant to both, I think, but hey, the guy only had a 'mild brain tumour'.

Right, as I was wondering if it was just for cancer, if a tumour has been treated successfully, would they still consider that person as having cancer and therefore need a GMC doctor?

Anyway, I'm going to leave you alone now, mainly because I don't want to go to bed with another headache, but no doubt once I receive the forms, you'll be bombarded (as will VP and Greebo) with questions to help me fill in forms

I think you can probably do with a rest yourself as well.

I'm thinking I may have to move questions to a conversation though and invite people as don't really want to be blabbing all his conditions on public boards

Wish there was a private forum for this type of thing

 

[equationgirl]

Right, as I was wondering if it was just for cancer, if a tumour has been treated successfully, would they still consider that person as having cancer and therefore need a GMC doctor?

Anyway, I'm going to leave you alone now, mainly because I don't want to go to bed with another headache, but no doubt once I receive the forms, you'll be bombarded (as will VP and Greebo) with questions to help me fill in forms

I think you can probably do with a rest yourself as well.

I'm thinking I may have to move questions to a conversation though and invite people as don't really want to be blabbing all his conditions on public boards

Wish there was a private forum for this type of thing

If you want a private 'forum' you can start a conversation and ask whoever you want to join. No-one will see it but who you invite.

Night night lovey x

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

If you want a private 'forum' you can start a conversation and ask whoever you want to join. No-one will see it but who you invite.

Night night lovey x

Yeah, but it can get confusing! Would be easier to just have one where we could have subjects like: Physical, Mental, Cancer, MS, ME etc.

I'm sure I'll cope with conversations, will just have to make sure to give each conversation a proper title like "please help me fill in form" instead of hello

I'm not going to bed for a few hours, but I'm having a rest from looking at disability websites.

Have a good night yourself, and many thanks

 

[Greebo]

Yeah, but it can get confusing! Would be easier to just have one where we could have subjects like: Physical, Mental, Cancer, MS, ME etc.

I'm sure I'll cope with conversations, will just have to make sure to give each conversation a proper title like "please help me fill in form" instead of hello <snip>

Good idea - makes it easier to find for future reference.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Took me ages to find that injection one from VP, then I remembered the month I was probably discussing it so that helped

 

[toggle]

I'm thinking I may have to move questions to a conversation though and invite people as don't really want to be blabbing all his conditions on public boards

at least i don't have to worry about that, i have one who shares everything. to everyone. all the time. so by the time i get round to blabbing, it's old news

 

[purenarcotic]

How does one develop a 'mild' brain tumour. Can one now have a 'mild' case of cancer, much like a mild cold or a bit of a headache?

Lord above.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

at least i don't have to worry about that, i have one who shares everything. to everyone. all the time. so by the time i get round to blabbing, it's old news

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

How does one develop a 'mild' brain tumour. Can one now have a 'mild' case of cancer, much like a mild cold or a bit of a headache?

Lord above.

Maybe they think a mild tumour is one that can be treated and a major one is one that's going to kill you whilst you're stressing out filling out the form for them

 

[Greebo]

at least i don't have to worry about that, i have one who shares everything. to everyone. all the time. so by the time i get round to blabbing, it's old news

The Crocodile Dundee approach - go to the bar, tell Wally, Wally tells everyone else.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

The Crocodile Dundee approach - go to the bar, tell Wally, Wally tells everyone else.

Maybe he could go to the medical on behalf of everyone

 

[Greebo]

Maybe he could go to the medical on behalf of everyone

It'd certainly be more efficient all round

 

[equationgirl]

How does one develop a 'mild' brain tumour. Can one now have a 'mild' case of cancer, much like a mild cold or a bit of a headache?

Lord above.

It's the LIMA software, rather than a medical diagnosis. It's set up to generate sentences based on answers chosen from drop down menus.

So, for example for the report in question, the patient had declared a brain tumour but it only affected his right side, and he needed a stick to get around. Without seeing the software code I can't say for certain, but it will go something like this:

Menu choices are:
Patient cannot walk for any distance.-------------------------------> software picks 'severe'
Patient can walk 5m.--------------------------------------------------> software picks 'moderate'
Patient can walk 50m.-------------------------------------------------> software picks 'mild'
Patient can walk 200m.------------------------------------------------> software picks 'minimal'

Assessor chooses 'Patient can walk 50m',

The software then generates sentences based on the choices made so there will be a line in the code that puts the two choices together in a sentence:

'patient has a <menu choice> <medical condition>'

Which sounds great in theory but by trying to standardise complex medical histories and capabilities for a widely varying set of people, atos have ended up software that produces nonsense - nobody appears to proof-read these before they get sent out.

So in this case, the sentence that got generated was 'the patient has a mild brain tumour', the word 'mild' coming from one of the menu choices picked by the assessor. Pointless

 

[equationgirl]

Maybe they think a mild tumour is one that can be treated and a major one is one that's going to kill you whilst you're stressing out filling out the form for them

This guy was pretty sick - and they still passed him as fot for work in 6 months. He appealed on the grounds that atos hadn't used an appropriately qualified assessor and won.

He posted up his report to help others. I salute him.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

This guy was pretty sick - and they still passed him as fot for work in 6 months. He appealed on the grounds that atos hadn't used an appropriately qualified assessor and won.

He posted up his report to help others. I salute him.

Yeah, I read it, and good on him for doing that, as if he hasn't got enough stress already

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

So in this case, the sentence that got generated was 'the patient has a mild brain tumour', the word 'mild' coming from one of the menu choices picked by the assessor. Pointless

Wonder how that works when you have multiple conditions

Can walk 50 metres, but has mild peripheral neuropathy/myopathy, mild vascular disease, mild anaemia (despite his anaemia being so severe, if it went any lower, they were talking about blood transfusions)

Facepalm just isn't a good smiley for this crap

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I also noted in the appearance at his assessment they look for nicotine stained fingers?

Why is that relevant? Are they going to strike you off next because you're smoking and drinking?

Maybe they'll be wanting to examine bowels movements next to check on what you're eating

 

[equationgirl]

Wonder how that works when you have multiple conditions

Can walk 50 metres, but has mild peripheral neuropathy/myopathy, mild vascular disease, mild anaemia (despite his anaemia being so severe, if it went any lower, they were talking about blood transfusions)

Facepalm just isn't a good smiley for this crap

It pretty much doesn't work for multiple conditions, in my opinion, based on what research I've done.

For the software to work it has to be simplified, so the interdependencies of several medical problems have to be ignored.

Remember, when you're filling out the form, base your answers on his very worst days. It is human nature to be optimistic, and the form seems to be skewed to give very low scores when people give answers based upon their BEST days. To get the 15 points you need to give answers based upon his worst days.

According to one of the forums, they've started sneaking in questions such as 'Do you have holidays?'. Obviously the seriously ill and disabled aren't supposed to be able to afford such fripperies even if they are respite-based. Fuckers. I'm assuming the nicotine-fingers question is along the same lines - maybe they're looking to attribute people's health problems to their lifestyle choices (and possibly deducting points?).

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It pretty much doesn't work for multiple conditions, in my opinion, based on what research I've done.

For the software to work it has to be simplified, so the interdependencies of several medical problems have to be ignored.

Remember, when you're filling out the form, base your answers on his very worst days. It is human nature to be optimistic, and the form seems to be skewed to give very low scores when people give answers based upon their BEST days. To get the 15 points you need to give answers based upon his worst days.

According to one of the forums, they've started sneaking in questions such as 'Do you have holidays?'. Obviously the seriously ill and disabled aren't supposed to be able to afford such fripperies even if they are respite-based. Fuckers. I'm assuming the nicotine-fingers question is along the same lines - maybe they're looking to attribute people's health problems to their lifestyle choices (and possibly deducting points?).

Yeah, I do try to put down his worst days, although normally he can walk 50m but he's in pain as soon as he starts walking, and you wonder if they get you in for an assessment, if they don't think you look in pain (because you're used to it), they might think otherwise. Also, if they sat him down and asked him if he was in pain, he'll often say no, but then he'll remember his liver's in pain or his back's in pain and that pain is overriding the pain in his feet

Doesn't help that vascular consultant discharged him last month after latest scan. Decided he was spending enough time at the hospital and it was pointless coming for scans when his condition hasn't changed since the operations. Told us to contact them again though if it gets worse.

As for holidays, yes, we're going to Ireland, but we get special assistance at the airport to the departure lounge as the walk is too far and we are picked up at the other end.

 

[equationgirl]

Yeah, I do try to put down his worst days, although normally he can walk 50m but he's in pain as soon as he starts walking, and you wonder if they get you in for an assessment, if they don't think you look in pain (because you're used to it), they might think otherwise. Also, if they sat him down and asked him if he was in pain, he'll often say no, but then he'll remember his liver's in pain or his back's in pain and that pain is overriding the pain in his feet

Doesn't help that vascular consultant discharged him last month after latest scan. Decided he was spending enough time at the hospital and it was pointless coming for scans when his condition hasn't changed since the operations. Told us to contact them again though if it gets worse.

As for holidays, yes, we're going to Ireland, but we get special assistance at the airport to the departure lounge as the walk is too far and we are picked up at the other end.

So when you're talking about his vascular problems, use the word 'stable'. Yes, he's been discharged but that doesn't mean the condition has been cured, it means that it's not progressing or deteriorating.

Given the extremely complex nature of your b/f's health, I'd be very surprised if they call him for assessment - mainly because he needs to be seen by a GMC-registered neuropsychiatrist oncologist vascular specialist which basically won't exist as a skillset in a single doctor. Fingers crossed. Hope you're putting in for a home visit with recording too.

I'm envious of you going on the airport transporter

 

[equationgirl]

I think the nictoine thing is partially used to assess range of motion in their smoking arm, looking at the atos report from the nice man who posted his.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

So when you're talking about his vascular problems, use the word 'stable'. Yes, he's been discharged but that doesn't mean the condition has been cured, it means that it's not progressing or deteriorating.

Given the extremely complex nature of your b/f's health, I'd be very surprised if they call him for assessment - mainly because he needs to be seen by a GMC-registered neuropsychiatrist oncologist vascular specialist which basically won't exist as a skillset in a single doctor. Fingers crossed. Hope you're putting in for a home visit with recording too.

I'm envious of you going on the airport transporter

Don't always get that I'm afraid. Sometimes you do, other times you get the wheelchair which means I get to walk

Especially with Ryanair. Depends what you order when booking, and I normally say a wheelchair (with someone pushing it) is sufficient

 

[WouldBe]

If a HCP "can't be arsed" to check for incontinence and as a result the DWP don't believe you, is it acceptable to send the DWP soiled clothing as proof?


Maybe I should ask how I go about this in my letter to the DWP.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

If a HCP "can't be arsed" to check for incontinence and as a result the DWP don't believe you, is it acceptable to send the DWP soiled clothing as proof?


Maybe I should ask how I go about this in my letter to the DWP.

They'd have to check it for DNA to make sure it's yours though and you haven't just borrowed some

 

[WouldBe]

It can be easily arranged

E2A: perhaps they could be asked to arrange cleaning and returning of said items as well.