Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
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Wickerman1
New Member
Definitely no coincidence. E-mail sent to Soames on a Sunday afternoon, acknowledgement e-mail received from his PA the following day. A further e-mail received from PA on the Wednesday advising that an assessment date had been allocated and the official letter from ATOS received on Friday.
Going through the usual application route produced no results for nearly eight months whereas a single e-mail to our MP achieved the desired result in less than a week. Mrs W and I are happy with the outcome but are less than happy that we had to resort to writing to our MP to achieve it.
While that has been advised practice from welfare advisers, support groups, one could say now there is a clear issue with this:, if you put on the form or state how you are on your worst day, they assume you are like this all the time, not fluctuating, etc. The new regime is going to be more diligent and more cognisance is going to be taken comparing what you put on the form/stated at medical and how you 'perform' day to day, especially the unfortunates who it is decided need to be seen regualry or even have a fraud cases opened against them. The minimum for 'irregularities' is going to be a instant fine of 350 pounds.
at the very least, its something to be cautious about
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It is well documented that Atos cannot deal with conditions that vary. They simply seem incapable of understanding that on one day, a person can feel almost normal yet be crippled by pain a day or so later. If they are making this assumption then claimants have to use their worse case scenario. You will see that I recommended getting a GP letter documenting any changes in mrs wickerman's condition given the time that has lapsed since the form was submitted and the date of assessment.
And what 'new regime'? If you have any information about this then put them on another thread rather than this one which is about supporting those going through the process.
The CAB advise claimants to describe their symptoms in the worst case/worst day.
I know there's plans afoot to fine people for mistakes made in DWP correspondence/data, but surely that doesn't count here?
I know there's plans afoot to fine people for mistakes made in DWP correspondence/data, but surely that doesn't count here?
Especially if your disability involves making mistakes in forms?
Blimey. Fines were floated in February 2011: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12506273
Were they implemented?
I think they were in the latest raft of changes/reforms, though I can't be sure.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
As best I can tell, s116 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 deals only with errors that lead to overpayment ans the penalty seems to be limited to the amount of overpayment. But no fines are mentioned.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/116/enacted
Wickerman1
New Member
Mrs Wickerman starts on Gilenya today. We've now got a 6 or 7 hour observation starting at noon at the RSC Hospital in Brighton.
superfly101
Well-Known Member
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Best of luck to you both.
stereoisomer
tits and quiche
My bf has just started this hideous process, after he had to give up his job because his ME was getting worse and worse. Got the form, he's filled it in but I don't think he's put enough detail in, going to have to help him do it again I think. The questions are ludicrous aren't they? As if there are any jobs that don't require much, much more of a person than that...
The envelope to return it is addressed to Atos- thought they weren't doing the assessments any more? I'm hoping that the whole assessment process takes ages so at least he won't have to sign on. Hopefully they won't take one look at the form and decide he's not sick enough. With any luck if it takes 3 months he will have got a bit better again- then he can get another job for a month. He isn't keen on the idea of prostitution (too much exercise) so I'm encouraging him to take up drug dealing, it's the only way forward. That was a joke, sort of.
The envelope to return it is addressed to Atos- thought they weren't doing the assessments any more? I'm hoping that the whole assessment process takes ages so at least he won't have to sign on. Hopefully they won't take one look at the form and decide he's not sick enough. With any luck if it takes 3 months he will have got a bit better again- then he can get another job for a month. He isn't keen on the idea of prostitution (too much exercise) so I'm encouraging him to take up drug dealing, it's the only way forward. That was a joke, sort of.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Is he on any medications? List all of the them with their side effects. Underline any side effect that appears in more than one medicine. Make sure he has filled out the form based on how he is on his worst day. Also, ask any GPs or consultants (if you have them) for a letter giving supporting medical evidence about his condition and why he cannot work anymore. ViolentPanda and Greebo in particular have experience of getting suitable medical letters.
Keep copies of absolutely everything you send to Atos. Everything.
Also has he looked at applying for PIP (replaced DLA - Disability Living Allowance).
stereoisomer
tits and quiche
I've looked at the descriptors for PIP- don't think he could get it without exaggerating quite a bit. Can you walk 200 metres? Well, yes, most of the time... but it doesn't do him much good when the bloody bus stop is half a mile away!
He's not on any medication other than non-prescription painkillers which he canes a lot of and don't seem to do anything! Probably should get some that actually work, if such things exist
My commiserations to both of you - it's a vile process but has to be done. ViolentPanda's resting at the moment, but I'll tell him to check this thread and get back to you when he's next online (probably tomorrow).
What equationgirl said in spades. Even if you find more of less the same answer going down twice, do it. If there's too little space in the answer box, continue on extra paper attached to the back of the form (full legal name, NI number and which benefit the claim's for at the top of each sheet).
If in doubt, choose "no" or "not unless" instead or "yes but" when answering questions about what your bf can do.
IMHO he should certainly have a word with his GP (maybe a referral to a rheumatologist or a pain clinic would be in order?) as unrelieved pain definitely makes M.E. worse. I'm not going to preempt his GP but a combination of anti-inflammatories and different painkillers to the OTC ones might work wonders for his quality of life, although they won't cure your bf.
stereoisomer
tits and quiche
That's good advice, thanks. My worry is that he's ticked 'I can do this no problem' for far too many of the things. Perhaps the way to look at it is imagine if you had a job doing this for 8 hours a day- could you move empty boxes all day? Then the answer's no. Could you bend down and pick up pound coins off the floor all day? (as if that's a job lol) It does say 'repeatedly and to an acceptable standard' doesn't it.
Why can't the fucking form just say 'can you get up early in the morning go to work and work a full day? if not why not' surely that's the only relevant question. Fuckers
Word. People who are longterm sick shouldn't have to go through so much red tape and stress when they need all their energy just to keep going, let alone have a chance of improvement.
You need to think of the activities in terms of being able to do things safely, repeatedly, reliably, and without the claimant's condition becoming worse.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
This, really. I used to get a lift in with someone (15-20 minutes each way by car) and for the time I did that my health was noticeably better. He got another job so I get the bus now (45-60 minutes each way, plus a 10 minute walk to/from the bus stop) and although the distance is practically the same I am much much more tired after a full day's work. And I often sleep for 12 hours or more on a Friday because my system just shuts down.
You are right to be concerned that he's ticked too many 'I can do this no problem' boxes. They are looking to make cuts to the benefits budget still and if they can easily justify NOT giving ESA to someone then they will. He needs to probably put a lot of supplementary information together if possible, and try for a GP letter at the very least. If he can also get referred to a pain management clinic and/or rheumatologist as Greebo suggests then he should ask for that as soon as possible.
For example, he could write that the nearest bus stop is (e.g.) 400m away and walking to the bus stop would debilitate him so much he would not be able to work a full day without a significant increase in pain anf fatigue levels. The esteemed Mr Panda has given some much better examples for supplemental information about this.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Detail is the key, in my experience. It's about overwhelming them with detail as much as possible, so that they're left with little or no "wriggle room" in awarding ESA.
A few key things to pay attention to, when filling the forms out, are:
1) that the tasks the form sets out (lifting arms, standing and sitting etc etc) will have to be repeated multiple times throughout the day, with all the concomitant pain and fatigue.
2) that the questions are designed to catch people out, so where questions are similar to previous questions, a similar answer has to be incorporated.
3) that the spaces left for answers are deliberately small. Many people will therefore try to edit their answer down to fit the space - DON'T DO THIS!!!! - and end up trimming off essential detail. If the box isn't big enough, then use additional A4 sheets, and index them to the question being answered, i.e. "additional sheet no. 10, Q5 'How many times do you need help farting, during the night?' ".
4) although it's complex and awkward to do, try to think laterally when filling in the forms. For example, if he's taking any medication, check out the side-effects, so that if his M.E. makes him dizzy/upsets his sense of balance, check if his meds have that side-effect, and then incorporate that into the answer about symptoms, i.e. "suffers poor balance, may be exacerbated by having to take xxxxx twice a day".
The questions are designed to minimise successful claims, rather than to take account of actual abilities
Does he have a diagnosis of M.E./CFS from a consultant, or is his diagnosis a self-diagnosis? If it's the latter, then he needs to see a consultant rheumatologist as soon as possible. If it's the former, then he needs a copy of the letter giving the diagnosis.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Thing is, what people are deceived into thinking with such questions, is that an ability to walk 200 metres is the primary point. It isn't. The primary point is how far you can walk without causing yourself discomfort/pain. I can walk to my GP surgery half a mile away, however, I can't walk at all without pain, and it takes me 40-45 minutes (including resting time) to get there, and I certainly couldn't do it more than once a week at best without it causing muscle spasms bad enough to tear muscles.
What sort of pain does he have (I'll guess at joint and muscular)? If so, he should be getting his GP to prescribe, not buying OTC. His GP can prescribe higher strength, and provide larger quantities. Works out cheaper most of the time, too.
stereoisomer I'm just gong to pick this point up as some of the things you need to think about - pain, fatigue, and needing to rest may be part of the picture, but so is how able your bf is to do other stuff once he's even tried to walk that distance.
eg Does his speech become a bit slurred or muddled? Could he think straight? Could he think clearly enough to answer a fairly complicated question or read more than a short paragraph of clear English? Would his coordination or grip be compromised? With VP, if he's overdone it and then tries handling smallish items, his hands tend to flip the paperback or coins into the air.
No need to give the answers here, just asking as an idea of the context for the form.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Of possible interest to this thread:
Via http://www.featuresexec.com/bulletin/news_article.php?id=23043
Via http://www.featuresexec.com/bulletin/news_article.php?id=23043
"specialist ignoring."
I think you mean.
I think you mean.
Yep. 3 hours of waiting (each appointment seems to have 4 people allocated it because of the allegedly high dropout rate) to be told words which boil down to: "You're still ill but have got worse, you're not dying yet, you still know what you've got, there are no miracle cures, you're already taking what you're allowed to take, piss off and live with it."
Yep: 3 hours waiting (each appointment seems to have 4 people allocated it because of the allegedly high dropout rate) to be told words to the effect of "you're still ill but have got a bit worse, you still know what you've got, there are no miracle cures, you're already taking what you're allowed to take, piss off and live with it."
The attitude seems to be that, if you have lived with X, then X isn't a problem.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Thanks for the help given on here. I just found out today that my friend was put straight in the support group with no test required 
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