Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[equationgirl]

Update on my research into this:





I asked the DWP by email: "I wonder if you could please let me know what amendments were made to this page in June? http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/...-medical-conditions/chronic-fatigue-syndrome/" Their answer: "I can advise that there wasn't an amendment to the actual page content - the amendment relates to general changes made by our technical people to the presentation of all the guidance in the A-Z of Medical Conditions web pages. The content of the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome guidance therefore remains unchanged."

At the benefitsandwork forum I asked whether the A to Z had formerly said that certain conditions were mandated for assessment by a doctor. The mod replied: “as far as I am aware this information has never been used in regard to what level of HCP is required to perform an ESA assessment for any given condition, this seems to be down to a couple of lists included in the contract between ATOS and the DWP, that were revealed by a Freedom of Information request some time ago”

The lists mentioned by the mod are in a DWP document called "Neurological Condition List by Practitioner Type". The document is subject to revision. People often ask for the document in a FOI request, so although the DWP never announces when it has been revised, the latest version quickly finds its way on to whatdotheyknow.com. We're now on version 5. It was supplied in this answer on June 24. Here are the lists:

I emailed the 'only for doctors' list to ATOS and asked if it was still current, and much to my surprise they confirmed that it is.

I'm certain that the DWP A to Z has never said which conditions mandate a doctor. In fact no government site has ever provided such info to the public. If it had it would have been referenced in a great many forums and blogs. There would have been no need for the many FOI requests about it. And if FOI requests had been made, the answers would have said “the DWP is not obliged to answer your question because the information is publicly accessible on the DWP site.” That's how the FOIA works.

An important point about the lists is in the intro on p.4 of the DWP doc: "The lists are not exhaustive." (Their emphasis.)
What this means in practice is that a neurological condition not on the list can still get you a real doctor for your WCA. CFS/ME has never been on the list, but some CFS/ME sufferers, including me, have had a real doctor. My medical was in August last year. I don't know why I was allocated a doctor. I haven't found any info about that part of the DWP decision process. Perhaps my CFS appeared complex because I've been diagnosed at a CFS clinic. Perhaps it's because I have several comorbid conditions. Perhaps if you mention a particular symptom on the ESA50 you get put in the 'complex neurological' pile. All I know for certain is that the people at the ATOS centre were instructed that I had to see a doctor. Maybe the answer is in a FOI request which I haven't read yet. There are so many of them....ATOS is mentioned in 400+.

I don't want to turn this thread into a massive argument about who is right (and no, that's not me bottling it and conceding the argument).

Thank you for your research into this. My original post still stands, the DWP has changed content on the website to the best of my knowledge because not only was the format of the page changed but information was changed too. I believe a statement from the DWP about as much as I believe Cameron when he says 'we're all in it together' to be honest.

Again, I never said a claimant would NEVER be seen by a doctor at an assessment, I said the DWP A-Z guidance had removed the statement where they would only accept evidence from a doctor and that I believed this amendment NO LONGER MANDATED assessment by doctor.

There is a growing body of evidence that claimants with complex conditions are not seen by a suitably qualified person at their assessment. Some people will be seen by doctors at assessment but others that should be seen by one won't meaning they are seen by nurses and even physios.

And it's a bit rich for you to say I'm making assertions I can't back up when you make similar claims yourself:

I'm certain that the DWP A to Z has never said which conditions mandate a doctor. In fact no government site has ever provided such info to the public. If it had it would have been referenced in a great many forums and blogs. There would have been no need for the many FOI requests about it. And if FOI requests had been made, the answers would have said “the DWP is not obliged to answer your question because the information is publicly accessible on the DWP site.” That's how the FOIA works.

 

[ash]

Which (among other things) will be proof that all of us who thought that it couldn't get any worse than Iain Dunked-in Shit, were very very wrong.

When the Welfare Reform bill was going through the commons and lords and back again as these bills do we sent letters to as many MP,s and the lords and ladies as we practically could. Him indoors was affected so we fought to be heard. In the Commons the reaction from most who replied from all parties was that the Welfare Reform Bill was a good thing. Steven Timms and another who I can't remember said they would support the WRAG group being 2 years instead of one for those on CB ESA. The rest were a shower of Shiite, apart from Kate Hoey our MP who emailed a couple of times, realised there was some misunderstanding between us and phoned spoke to him indoors much to his surprise. She seemed to understand. Some of the people that we contacted in the House of Lords were far more receptive and our letter was read out. Sadly all to no avail but you have to do your best ?! The other issue is that some of the third sector organisations (used to be called charities) are businesses and making profit and generally their lobbying was extremely ineffectual. There was and is a massive conflict of interest as they were looking to obtain employability type contracts on the back of the WRB. I rest my case : (

 

[Frumious B.]

And it's a bit rich for you to say I'm making assertions I can't back up when you make similar claims yourself:

Um, I did back it up - have a look at the rest of the para you quoted.

 

[bob420]

I've never had any problem having attitude to 'authority' figures. I think it came naturally from an early age Just say to yourself tonight, lots of times, don't be fooled, they are cnuts.

nice post mate, i like you find it easy to tell these atos fools where to go,
i find them quite disgusting and shudder at the thought of them being anywhere near me
atos and the government attempt to take some kind of moral high ground over me, they suggest that a WCA assessment is in my interest

it would seem they want me to consent to something that i am clearly not happy with
they need either my consent or my refusal for the process to continue
i believe giving consent to the assessment is not an option for me, i will always challenge it
i am under no obligation to trust them, much of the information i have seen has led me to believe trusting atos would be foolish

from my own experience the best solution for myself was to make the assessment virtually impossible for them to conduct
because of the endless "special requests" that i make, while at the same time never refusing the assessment as this would be grounds
for non-compliance

on several occasions i accused them of dishonorable behavior/ practices
i made it clear to them that i do not trust them and i think their objective is to cause me harm
as they attempted to initially take the moral high ground with me, i decided to give them a taste of their own medicine

all of my correspondence to them was of a hostile accusing nature where i ask them to prove they are not
trying to kill me

since an atos employee on the panorama tv show labeled herself "toxic" this self admission was enough information for me
to genuinely fear these "toxic" people (HCP)

i also made it very clear that i am a very difficult person to handle. i will require extremely precise treatment
anything they propose to subject me to must be declared in writing

the WCA assessment is not fit for purpose they use intimidation and misinformation to trick people into consenting to it

these are some of the conditions i sent them,
i also sent atos a letter from my GP stating that removing my benefit would worsen my conditions

1 video and audio surveillance CCTV i have the right to use cctv to record my property , i reserve the rights to publish the video on youtube and or any other media outlet of my choice

2 (a)any visiting HCP must be deloused before gaining entry to my
sterile sanctuary (home),
(b)all hcp will be provided with a suitable hair net/ beard net and full body suit, this must be warn at all times to prevent the hcp from contaminating my environment.

3 all hcp will respect my right to express myself freely in my home
failing to do so will be a negation of my human rights
this includes my right to express and practice “naturism” in my own home

i say have fun with it, make them jump through as many hoops as you can
the alternative is to agree with them using an unscrupulous flawed system of criteria (WCA)
to downgrade my huge ESA50 score

the magnitude of proposed cuntishness atos come at me with is off the scale
they must think i am Oliver twist or something

peace

 

[equationgirl]

Um, I did back it up - have a look at the rest of the para you quoted.

No, you can't make that assertion unless you read and regularly take screenshots of all A-Z pages, and have done since they were first posted on the internet. Have you done that?

You also state that 'no government site has ever provided such information to the public'. Have you consistently and constantly monitored all pages from all government sites since they were first posted on the internet?

The whatdotheyknow.com site, whilst carrying a lot of data, has never claimed to hold all FOI request responses and has only been registered since 2008, for example, and it is entirely possible that some information that had previously been available from e.g. 2000-2004 is now no longer available unless someone has saved a copy in a different format and reposted it. Your other assertion that 'it would have referenced somewhere' would only be true if these blogs and forums had remained online since 2004. Granted, I'd expect it to be referenced somewhere but the more likely scenario is that once an update is received it replaces the earlier version to avoid confusion. People also delete personal files, upgrade computers, lose files, shred paper, remove webpages (especially if fees are increasing) and so on.

Just because something isn't available now doesn't mean it wouldn't have been available then.

 

[equationgirl]

bob420 I do appreciate your creativity - how are Atos taking it?

 

[laptop]

peace

I'm certainly not employing you.

You may be proving yourself to be unemployable.

But I can't help thinking of Catch-22...

 

[treelover]

Todays memorial to the ATOS dead in Westminister

 

[J Ed]

http://www.pontefractandcastleforde...tling-cancer-told-she-s-fit-to-work-1-6086368

A grandmother battling cancer has been told she is fit to work by a Department for Work and Pensions tribunal – despite the fact she has had part of her lung removed and is undergoing chemotherapy.

Sylvia Allington, 53, was told on Friday an appeal against a DWP decision to move her to jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) was unsuccessful and she is deemed ‘fit to work’.

Mrs Allington, of Grove Lea Walk, Pontefract, had lodged the appeal last December following the decision to change her benefit from employment and support allowance (ESA), although she already suffered from high blood pressure, asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

However, in June during the appeal process, Mrs Allington was diagnosed with lung cancer after doctors found four tumours. She had surgery to remove a lobe of her lung and is currently receiving chemotherapy, with no clear prognosis from consultants.

Despite providing proof of her cancer treatment to the tribunal, it still rejected the appeal. Also, according to DWP rules, Mrs Allington should have remained on ESA, of £110 a week during the appeal process, but her family say she was moved straight to JSA of £71 a week instead.

 

[bob420]

bob420 I do appreciate your creativity - how are Atos taking it?

i have not heard from atos for a long time, but i am sure in time they will come calling again
they even tried to telephone me when i made it clear in writing that i did not accept calls from them
as i need everything to be logged in writing
when the atos lady phoned me out of the blue, i just repeated the words " yellow alert yellow alert"
until she hung up, they had not called me since

atos overall only corresponded with me on 2 or 3 occasions and this was always out of the blue
on horrible paper with some shitty fake looking logo

most of my correspondence was with the DWP and much of that was sent via my local MP
using emails
the MP did his job he forwarded all my letters and emails quickly, i do not think he particularly helped or is even in a position to help
but he was another form of creating a record of events and my dealings with the dwp

everything i mentioned they mostly seem to sidestep and did not directly address
they kept saying they could see no reason why the wca should not take place
i kept replying saying, you have not met my special requirements
they kept delaying the process and postponing home visits

finally my GP agreed to write the letter i had asked him to write
after i had made a complaint to the GMC about him
i sent that letter to atos and the dwp and i was awarded benefit without a WCA
they said i met the criteria for the support group and the wca was not necessary

 

[WouldBe]

Kerching. My DLA arrears has been paid into my bank account and I've broken my financial spreadsheet as the columns aren't wide enough.

Then I've had a letter this morning about my ESA saying that as a result of a change in circumstances I've been put in the support group but they are withholding ~£900 in ESA arrears as they may have made an overpayment. If anything the cheecky bastards have made an underpayment. They owenearly £900 in missed mortgage payments due to their cockup

No word yet about the result of the WCA though.

 

[Libertad]

Good news WouldBe

 

[equationgirl]

Kerching. My DLA arrears has been paid into my bank account and I've broken my financial spreadsheet as the columns aren't wide enough.

Then I've had a letter this morning about my ESA saying that as a result of a change in circumstances I've been put in the support group but they are withholding ~£900 in ESA arrears as they may have made an overpayment. If anything the cheecky bastards have made an underpayment. They owenearly £900 in missed mortgage payments due to their cockup

No word yet about the result of the WCA though.

May have made an overpayment????? Cheeky sods - when are they going to let you know? I'd be asking for a copy of their calculations to show how they arrived at that.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

http://www.pontefractandcastleforde...tling-cancer-told-she-s-fit-to-work-1-6086368

Cunts

 

[WouldBe]

May have made an overpayment????? Cheeky sods - when are they going to let you know? I'd be asking for a copy of their calculations to show how they arrived at that.

IIRC When I came of IB and got put on ESA and was classed as 'fit to work' they paid my ESA up to mid May then sent out a letter stating they had stopped my ESA from March so they had made an over payment. However when I then signed on for JSA they wouldn't back date the claim.

When the skip full of brown envelopes arrive trying to explain what they have done and why then my solicitor wants to see them to make sure I've not been short changed.

 

[audiotech]

From june of last year, but as Atos gets a mention in a speech that inspires:

 

[audiotech]

epetition with nearly 60,000 who have signed already. It calls for amongst other things a:

'Cumulative Impact Assessment of Welfare Reform, and a New Deal for sick & disabled people based on their needs, abilities and ambitions and an immediate end to the Work Capability Assessment, as voted for by the British Medical Association.'

Sign and share.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43154

 

[scifisam]

I got my DLA! Middle rate care, high rate mobility. :-D This is extra good because I think I'll need to get a taxi to work today as my left foot, hip and knee are conspiring to make life hell - bloody lefties.

The letter doesn't mention anything about backpayments, but I am due a fair bit. Any ideas how that'll work?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I got my DLA! Middle rate care, high rate mobility. :-D This is extra good because I think I'll need to get a taxi to work today as my left foot, hip and knee are conspiring to make life hell - bloody lefties.

Congratulations!! I know it was something of an endurance test for you, but it's generally worth it!

The letter doesn't mention anything about backpayments, but I am due a fair bit. Any ideas how that'll work?

It should just be a disbursement to your nominated account (for which you'll have to wait anything from 3-8 weeks ), but I'd recommend phoning them up and enquiring, simply on the basis of the phone call making them check that everything is "in process", as relying on their system alone...let's just say it's not exactly a fault-free system!

 

[WouldBe]

DWP have made a decision on my WCA I've been put in the support group for 1 year. Had to phone them up to find that out though.
Apparently there has been no overpayment so they have paid me the £870 they were withholding.
Now just need them to sort out the severe disablement payments.

 

[laptop]

Meanwhile: did Andrew Mitchell MP get permission to record an interview?

 

[equationgirl]

Meanwhile: did Andrew Mitchell MP get permission to record an interview?

Doubt it.

 

[Celt]

Meanwhile: did Andrew Mitchell MP get permission to record an interview?

i wondered about that

 

[Jackobi]

Here's some updated information about the 'mandatory reconsideration of decisions before appeal' changes, which will be in effect for all benefit claims from the 28th October, 11 days time:

"If the decision notification is dated before 28 October, the existing process will apply (so there will be an option of moving straight to appeal).

If the decision notification is dated on or after 28 October 2013, the new process will apply and the person will have to request a mandatory reconsideration before they can appeal."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...le/249902/appeals-process-changes-q-and-a.pdf

Which confirms that the decision date is the main factor affecting an immediate right of appeal or not, and not the date of the appeal submission.

 

[treelover]

"Universal Automation" is launched , just google

 

[treelover]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...-atos-pmqs-video_n_4108677.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Things seem to be hotting up, watch this very moving attack by Denis Skinner on ATOS at PMQ, some Tories even bayed at him afterwards, Cameron was shreweder.

http://news.sky.com/story/1156124/fit-to-work-benefits-test-unfit-for-purpose

CAB just issues a report that 150'000 have complained about ATOS, Sky News had a package on it, not the BBC though

 

[WouldBe]

Had my last apointment with A4E yesterday. They weren't having it initially that I didn't need to go in if I was in the support group.

 

[audiotech]

Benefits Tests: 'People Are Dying Penniless'
More than 150,000 people have complained about ATOS- the company which carries out fit-to-work tests for benefit claimants. Disability campaigner Lisa Egan says the company is 'so wrong, so much of the time.'

Sky interviewer whose brief is pretty poor for what they get paid to do.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/benefits-tests-people-dying-penniless-073340447.html

 

[equationgirl]

Had my last apointment with A4E yesterday. They weren't having it initially that I didn't need to go in if I was in the support group.

They could see their commission giving them a two-fingered salute.

 

[scifisam]

They paid me! I'm going to be able to clear all my debts! And then go into more debt to pay for a DELTA course. And yes, for the sake of my credit rating it is, bizarrely, better to do it that way round.