I think the U.N rapporteur has now extended her remit and is looking at ATOS/Govt disability benefits issue from a human rights perspective, I don't have the email to hand but she is accepting evidence, etc.
Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
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I think the U.N rapporteur has now extended her remit and is looking at ATOS/Govt disability benefits issue from a human rights perspective, I don't have the email to hand but she is accepting evidence, etc.
Good grief, didn't know that...
The gov are sneeking the abolition of annual reporting on tribunals through under the Draft Deregulation Bill.
Unfortunately the consultation window has closed but letters to MP's are still possible of anyone is up to it.
http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/201...annual-report/
Unfortunately the consultation window has closed but letters to MP's are still possible of anyone is up to it.
http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/201...annual-report/
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
This is the website I got the info from - it's the public DWP guidance for a range of medical conditions:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/medical-conditions/a-z-of-medical-conditions/
It does say this is used by Decision Makers for DLA/Attendance Allowance decisions, but I would be very very surprised if the DWP Decision Makers aren't using it for ESA decisions in conjunction with the LIMA software output. I think this because of the amendments that have been made over the past few months effectively 'downgrading' the assessment requirements for conditions such as ME and traumatic brain injury. Obviously I haven't been through every condition to check changes, I have noticed these ones as questions were raised about these specifically and I had used them before June 2013.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/medical-conditions/a-z-of-medical-conditions/
It does say this is used by Decision Makers for DLA/Attendance Allowance decisions, but I would be very very surprised if the DWP Decision Makers aren't using it for ESA decisions in conjunction with the LIMA software output. I think this because of the amendments that have been made over the past few months effectively 'downgrading' the assessment requirements for conditions such as ME and traumatic brain injury. Obviously I haven't been through every condition to check changes, I have noticed these ones as questions were raised about these specifically and I had used them before June 2013.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
I've followed all the links but I can't find anything about a doctor no longer being required for the WCA. I can't even find a single mention of assessment requirements. Am I looking in the wrong place?
I also searched the news section of benefitsandwork and couldn't find anything.
well I heard yesterday that they haven't changed their decision because of "lack of evidence"and my case is to go to tribunal.
I didn't really think they would change it at this stage.
They seldom do, tribunal is where it all happens. Hope it goes your way.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Look for the medical condition you are interested in for example ME. It used to say that a doctor had to do the assessment, since June that bit has been removed. That means the assessment can be done by a HCP which could be a nurse or a physio with no experience of that condition.I've followed all the links but I can't find anything about a doctor no longer being required for the WCA. I can't even find a single mention of assessment requirements. Am I looking in the wrong place?
I also searched the news section of benefitsandwork and couldn't find anything.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
So you've assumed that doctors no longer do assessments just because that site doesn't say anything about who does them. 
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So you've assumed that doctors no longer do assessments just because that site doesn't say anything about who does them.
It's a valid assumption though, given that it's often through such revisions and/or omissions of decision-maker and "hcp" advice that Benefits & Work get their first clue as to what the DWP is up to with regard to particular policies. I'd be inclined to treat eqg's assumption as valid until further notice.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
I disagree. It needs checking out before announcing it as a fact. Given the way that CFS, stress, depression and suicidal thoughts feed off each other, I wouldn't dream of posting something so alarming without verifying it. It's heartless and irresponsible, and it needs editing to tell people that it's just a suspicion with an explanation of how that suspicion was arrived at, and an assurance that it's being researched further.
Wind your neck in.
The original assessment was:
That appears to be accurate.
It doesn't say doctors no longer do assessments: it says their use is no longer mandated in those documents.
If you or others misread it, that's not the poster's fault.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
You don't understand the point, you haven't familiarised yourself with the context and you don't have any relevant knowledge to share.
I'll come back to this thread when I have some facts. In the meantime I suggest that anyone looking for guidance here should double check the 'information.'
I'll come back to this thread when I have some facts. In the meantime I suggest that anyone looking for guidance here should double check the 'information.'
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think we can reasonably accept that a web forum isn't exactly hardcore legal advice. Equationgirl has a pretty good track record on this stuff, and - whatever assumptions may have been made - I don't think her comments warrant the kind of attitude you're giving her on this. If you really think she's barked up the wrong tree, an "Are you sure about that?" might be a little more tactful than the way you have gone about it.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
With respect, I've been involved in this thread and doing research on the LIMA software and the DWP approach to medical assessments for well over a year. I made the notification about the use of a doctor no longer being mandated because to me it is a significant change by the DWP to their assessment approach. I gave a link to the DWP website (primary source) and notified the thread of when the change took place. I have never tried to make out I am an absolute authority on ATOS or assessments in general, but thought this change was significant to talk about.So you've assumed that doctors no longer do assessments just because that site doesn't say anything about who does them.
I am both hurt and annoyed at your response as I have never tried to do anything but support those affected by the whims of the DWP, and present any information I find accurately and with links to the primary DWP source where possible.
Thanks to those posters who appreciated what I posted and why, and who stuck up for me - ViolentPanda, laptop, existentialist to name but a few.
ETA: Appeals have been won because the claimant hasn't been assessed by a doctor as mandated by the DWP themselves for their condition(s). That's why this set of changes is so important - it removes that appeal argument for the claimant. Not a good thing.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
And on the basis of equationgirl's last post, I wish to retract any qualifiers I made about assumptions. It's pretty obvious to me now that her statement on the question of doctors doing assessments is unimpeachable.
I think that it might be politic and tactful to consider offering her something of an apology, Frumious B.
I think that it might be politic and tactful to consider offering her something of an apology, Frumious B.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
They are wankers. Well done for sticking it out to tribunal stage.well I heard yesterday that they haven't changed their decision because of "lack of evidence"
I didn't really think they would change it at this stage.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Looks like the DLA have accepted the tribunals decision as they have sent me a form asking where to deposit my DLA and back pay.
They already have these details on record.
TBF, they send a note asking that because a lot of people have their DLA paid into a Post Office Card Account, and they're not able to remit your backpay to a POCA, only as a bank transfer or (which they may not do anymore) as a cheque.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You're having a pop at someone for making assumptions, and then post this shite making assumptions about the nature of ME/CFS, that all those with ME/CFS will be prey to "stress", and that this will necessarily cause "depression and suicidal thoughts".
Guess what? Not even close.
You do realise that Atos has been using basic HCPs rather than doctors for neuro conditions since the inception of WCAs, don't you? Have a look on epilepsy-specific boards, or boards for Parkinsons. They regularly use OTs to assess people with Parkinsons. The "use a doctor for claimants with neuro conditions" is "best practice" guidance by the way, no longer regulation or mandated policy. It's not "must use", it's "should use", unfortunately for us.
I know you get off on being precious and self-righteous, but frankly you should wind your neck in and do a bit more research yourself.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yup. Basically they've given themselves a "get out of jail free" card that has nothing at all to do with:
a) The low ratio of doctors to other healthcare workers that Atos use,
b) The BMA pretty much anathematising Atos and the DWP, and
c) The fact that they've found doctors to be a bit less pliable than nurses, physios and OTs when it comes to getting them to "revise" WCAs.
Honestly.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It might be.
I'm expecting a Jeremiad against Urban's monothought clique, myself.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
My DLA has always been paid into a bank account. They already have those bank account details on record. IIRC they also ask what bank account you want your DLA paid into on the DLA form as well.
@ DWPI think they are just using it as a delaying tactic so they can hang onto it for a few more weeks and earn a bit more interest on it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
My DLA has always been paid into a bank account. They already have those bank account details on record. IIRC they also ask what bank account you want your DLA paid into on the DLA form as well.
I think they are just using it as a delaying tactic so they can hang onto it for a few more weeks and earn a bit more interest on it.
No, seriously, it's a pro forma they send out because a majority of people get their DLA and/or other benefits paid to a POCA, so they just mail out the pro forma to everyone. My dad got one when he got given Attendance Allowance, even though he had his pension paid into his bank account.
Nah - everyone knows that the DWP is your friend and ours.<snip>I think they are just using it as a delaying tactic so they can hang onto it for a few more weeks and earn a bit more interest on it.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Ah. I don't really know the poster in question, so was giving him the benefit of the doubt...It might be.
I'm expecting a Jeremiad against Urban's monothought clique, myself.
Good luck. BTW take your time answering the door or get somebody to do it for you. Your walk to and from the door may be observed and included in the assessment by the so-called healthcare professional.
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
Have you got recording equip.?? If you have use it, also handy to have at least one witness. Good luck.
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