Are you going on the “Hate March”? (11/11/23) - Poll

[Riklet]

Just back home after a long day.

Amazing march and very powerful. Started from Paddington about 1 and joined the march by Hyde Park. Chilled down the road and had a break as I got talking to a fit teacher. Then carried on until the bridge but it was crazy busy by then and couldnt get across. So we all headed right and went round via the next bridge past the US embassy and back over the bridge.

It was the 'end' of the march by that point but there were so many of us still chanting we went back over and back up the same protest route. I think the cops were a bit surprised and were hurrying about as it was quite militant.. lots of fireworks and smoke bombs and flares and stuff. Plus music and more roads being blocked. We pushed through their initial barrier and got past the vans and it was really lively and amazing with more peoole joining again. Somewhere along the way the OB finally got organised and rushed in to kettle us.. I saw it happening and managed to run through the row of coppers with some good dodging moves. Sadly most people got kettled and loads more cops arrived.. totally blocking the road and causing chaos in the process. The groups of us that had 'escaped' were hanging around and stood behind the cops but there werent enough of us to shake things up. I'm not sure what happened next. After another half an hour I was cold and knackered it was almost 7pm and headed to my friend's house for food.

Felt bad leaving people (not sure if arrests happened) but it was an amazing day and absolute massive massive march. Very inspiring. Fuck the government and fuck anyone complicit in this insanity and bloodletting. I suspect the march was a lot bigger than the authorities expected because honestly the police were massively massively outnumbered and couldnt do shit for 95% of the march. Anyway I'm exhausted and my legs ache from so much walking but very glad I went.

 

[Riklet]

Some pics

 

[kenny g]

This one is "interesting"

 

[Elpenor]

“We need to wipe them off the map… do you know what day it is”

If it wasn’t such a serious issue the irony bypass from that racist would almost be funny

 

[Johnny Vodka]

This one is "interesting"

I wonder if that cunt was busy "defending" the cenotaph earlier in the day.

 

[Spandex]

Meanwhile, in Tel Aviv yesterday:

Is that an anti-semetic hate rally? Or is all this talk of anti-semetic hate rallies a load of pro-Netanyahu bullshit that conflates Netanyahu's government with Israel with people around the world who happen to be Jewish, repeated by morally bankrupt politicians like Biden, Sunak and Starmer as they justify a genocide that is largely happening to maintain Netanyahu's grip on power?

 

[nino_savatte]

When Jews praised Mussolini and supported Nazis: Meet Israel's first fascists

***

www.haaretz.com

The always good haaretz on Zionism and fascism.

It was Mussolini rather than Hitler.

Mussolini didnt have a thing about Jews like Hitler did.

The context of the times was that strong leaders / a strong nationalist anti communist state appealed

Peronism in Argentina had Mussolini influences.

The Right wing Zionists , like others in Europe at the time, had a certain admiration for this kind of Fascism as a model.

Pierre Gemayel's Kataeb (Phalangist) Party in Lebanon was modelled on Mussolini's fascists.

 

[two sheds]

Mail doesn't let us down



Some choice comments on reddit

I’d like to take this opportunity to condemn the jostling. I take a strong stand against all of those who jostle, plan jostles, or glorify jostling online.

It’s sad. How easily the tolerant left become monsters. Jostling today, gulags for anyone without pink hair tomorrow.

So much for the tolerant left SMH
They say that they are the caring and compassionate ones, but here they are… jostling.

Ball bag Gove is lucky it’s just jostling. I can’t get over how he seems to have escaped any recriminations for all the bullshit during covid.

But do you condemn the jostling?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Apologies if this has already been posted but this video by ex-squaddie Joe Glenton on Remembrance Day and politician hypocrisy to even attend ceremonies is superb
Here

 

[teqniq]

Unless my eyes deceive me it really does seem to be Michael Gove:

So it was Michael Gove in that vid. Not only has the vid been deleted by the user but the account no longer exists either. However I found it still in Google cache.

 

[Riklet]

It really was Michael Gove. He emerged from a street literally just off the march route (somewhere round the Cleveland Clinic opposite the gardens down from Wellington Arch) and was quickly spotted. It was just as I was going past! There was a massive roar and some people went running off in that direction. I went running too but I couldn't catch up... I asked someone and they said "It was Michael Gould!" which rang a bell but I didn't make the connection so I went back to the march. He got mobbed there and I think later in Victoria. He seemed pretty unshaken in the pictures...

Another cool and inspiring moment was back by the US embassy when a load of us had gone all the way round along Grosvenor Road over Chelsea Bridge. Loads of people were leaving the march that way by that point so we were coming in both directions. I passed a group of people and cops outside a block of flats and asked what was going on.. it seemed they had just arrested someone! Not sure why. So the protestors surrounded the relatively small group of cops and because people were coming from both directions more were joining us. We started chanting "let him go, let him go!" and after a few minutes they made a 'tactical decision' I guess and they actually did!!! Massive cheers and it was great. Maybe I should send this heartwarming story to Suella Braverman..... #softonhatemarchers

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Michael Gove, quite by accident going for a stroll right next to a very well publicised march route?

No court can convict for "jostling" even if the powers that be find some way of making it a crime. His presence there is tantamount to entrapment.

 

[Pickman's model]

Michael Gove, quite by accident going for a stroll right next to a very well publicised march route?

No court can convict for "jostling" even if the powers that be find some way of making it a crime. His presence there is tantamount to entrapment.

The 'loons walk among us

 

[pesh]

Who hasn’t popped out on a Saturday afternoon for a quick offie restock and to pick up some cash for another couple of bags.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

The cynic in me thinks that Suella and Co were so desperate for some left violence that in the spirit of remembrance weekend ("Honour Those Who Made Such Sacrifices") Gove drew the short straw and deliberately headed out to take a well-deserved shoeing. The 'jostlers' showed admirable restraint.

 

[tony.c]

About eleven years ago I went to the protest at the Conservative conference at Manchester. As the CWU pstal workers contingent went past the Conference Centre, Michael Fallon then Tory Minister for Royal Mail privatisation came out and walked through the march and stood on the other side of the road with his minders. He was obviously trying to provoke a reaction. The marchers either didn't recognise him or just ignored him.
The Daily Heil obviously disappointed with not getting pictures of a Conservative Minister being mobbed or attacked, instead ran a story about an unnamed Conservative councillor being 'spat at'.

 

[pbsmooth]

Mail doesn't let us down

View attachment 399731

Some choice comments on reddit

They got what they wanted there unfortunately. Sneaky cunts.

 

[two sheds]

Yeh half a million on a peaceful march = no news
A few people call pob a twat = hate mob

I hope the police don't go after the bloke who was most vocal there - there were loads of headbangers much more threatening to people.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The cynic in me thinks that Suella and Co were so desperate for some left violence that in the spirit of remembrance weekend ("Honour Those Who Made Such Sacrifices") Gove drew the short straw and deliberately headed out to take a well-deserved shoeing. The 'jostlers' showed admirable restraint.

Reminds me of when Gove's wife drove him around for hours looking for a hospital that was closed on Sundays, so she could write an article claiming that he nearly died because of the evil NHS.

 

[SpookyFrank]

They got what they wanted there unfortunately. Sneaky cunts.

They were always going to find something. Out of half a million people someone's always going to drop a fag packet or piss in a doorway or something. And then just like that it's 'both as bad as each other'. I'm sure the headline and half the copy were written before the event.

 

[kenny g]

Quite prescient comment on Reddit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They were always going to find something. Out of half a million people someone's always going to drop a fag packet or piss in a doorway or something. And then just like that it's 'both as bad as each other'. I'm sure the headline and half the copy were written before the event.

The Tories doing this was always entirely predictable. The Labour front bench joining in so enthusiastically perhaps less so. Blair waited until he was in power before placing himself and those riding with him on the wrong side of history. Starmer's gone one better.

 

[cesare]

"and their own reflections"

 

[Gramsci]

might be acceptable from jews as well...?

Warnings of Israeli fascism should be heeded, not condemned

IHRA definition would brand critical Jewish voices as anti-Semitic.

electronicintifada.net

From Humanity to Bestiality, an encounter with Y. Leibowitz

Yeshayahu Leibowitz was a famous Israeli intellectual known for his outspoken opinions on Judaism, ethics, religion and politics. Here’s an interview of his on the topic of “Humanity to…

hummusforthought.com

Looked at the Electronic intifada article.

To bring it closer to home this on Labour List.

In short puts forward proposition that now Starmer has progressed to rooting out anti semitism next move is for Labour party to say anti Zionism as anti semitic:

Those who peddle hateful language and lies about Israel – who compare it to an apartheid state or draw shameful analogies between its actions and those of Nazi Germany – cannot claim to be opponents of antisemitism simple because they’ve attacked anti-Jewish racism on the populist right.

Saying Israel is Apartheid State is something the human rights groups are saying. As well as PSC - a mainstream organisation

Under Keir’s leadership, the battle against antisemitism is being fought and won. To ensure that this victory is both complete and lasting, we must recognise the absolute centrality of anti-Zionism in feeding this latest variant of the world’s oldest hatred.

The article correctly says that Labour party supported Zionism from its early days. Yes it did. It also supported the British Empire in its early days. Something it would now rather forget.


So Starmer position on I stand by Israel is literally accurate. And what this article says is the way the Labour party was going under his leadership.

Opposing a ceasefire is consistent with these views.

Suggesting a one party state where both Jews and Palestinians live together as equals under this view is anti semitic.

'Anti-Zionism feeds antisemitism. To fight racism, Labour must recognise this' - LabourList

At the heart of the shocking growth of antisemitism in the Labour party after 2015 rested a myth…

labourlist.org

 

[pbsmooth]

They were always going to find something. Out of half a million people someone's always going to drop a fag packet or piss in a doorway or something. And then just like that it's 'both as bad as each other'. I'm sure the headline and half the copy were written before the event.

I didn't even mean anyone did anything wrong.
But I'm sure the Gove walk was deliberate.

 

[pbsmooth]

Some good naming and shaming here.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

So estimates of 300,000 on the peace, love and unity march and a pathetic 100 old drunk racists fighting with the police. Great stuff.

I think it was more than a 100 old drunk racists, sadly.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Back of a fag packet:

If 600,000 people were there yesterday, that's 1% of the UK population. About 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish, so you'd expect 3,000 of those people to have been Jewish if you were choosing at random.

I would wager that significantly more than 3,000 Jewish people were marching yesterday. So if you're Jewish, you are more likely to have attended yesterday's march than the average 1%.

It's a similar story to the Labour Party. If you're a Jewish member of the Labour Party, you're many times more likely to be expelled for antisemitism than a non-Jewish member.

It's not so surprising, of course. Jewish people are on average far more likely to have strong opinions about Israel than non-Jewish people. But both the Tories and Labour are now banging on about the marches 'making Jewish people feel unsafe'. In reality, it is their lies about the marches and what they stand for that are making some Jewish people feel unsafe.

 

[hitmouse]

Back of a fag packet:

If 600,000 people were there yesterday, that's 1% of the UK population. About 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish, so you'd expect 3,000 of those people to have been Jewish if you were choosing at random.

I would wager that significantly more than 3,000 Jewish people were marching yesterday. So if you're Jewish, you are more likely to have attended yesterday's march than the average 1%.

It's a similar story to the Labour Party. If you're a Jewish member of the Labour Party, you're many times more likely to be expelled for antisemitism than a non-Jewish member.

It's not so surprising, of course. Jewish people are on average far more likely to have strong opinions about Israel than non-Jewish people. But both the Tories and Labour are now banging on about the marches 'making Jewish people feel unsafe'. In reality, it is their lies about the marches and what they stand for that are making some Jewish people feel unsafe.

I was trying to think how many specifically Jewish groups mobilised for it - according to this, there were at least 6 (Jewish Socialist Group, Black Jewish Alliance, Na'amod, Jewish Voice for Labour, Jewdas, Just Jews). They only estimate 500 people for the specifically Jewish bloc, not sure if it grew after that, but sure there will have been plenty more not on the bloc.

Also, for future reference, found an actual article with that quote from DAC Taylor posted upthread. Worth keeping on hand, that quote deserves to follow him around for the rest of his career (which hopefully won't be a long one).

 

[YouSir]

Back of a fag packet:

If 600,000 people were there yesterday, that's 1% of the UK population. About 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish, so you'd expect 3,000 of those people to have been Jewish if you were choosing at random.

I would wager that significantly more than 3,000 Jewish people were marching yesterday. So if you're Jewish, you are more likely to have attended yesterday's march than the average 1%.

It's a similar story to the Labour Party. If you're a Jewish member of the Labour Party, you're many times more likely to be expelled for antisemitism than a non-Jewish member.

It's not so surprising, of course. Jewish people are on average far more likely to have strong opinions about Israel than non-Jewish people. But both the Tories and Labour are now banging on about the marches 'making Jewish people feel unsafe'. In reality, it is their lies about the marches and what they stand for that are making some Jewish people feel unsafe.

The UK Jewish community has been abysmally mistreated over recent years. The 'internal' disciplining has been abhorrent - not just over Israel's actions but also over Left wing sympathies before that, constant erasure of people as fake/non-Jews, self-loathing etc. The Fear Narrative is a key (and incredibly dangerous) part of that imo, also a wholly dishonest one given how much antisemitism flourishes in the relatively uncommented on conspiracist and Right Wing subcultures, something that rarely if ever gets a look in. No community comes close when it comes to being targetted for political manipulation really.