Are you going on the “Hate March”? (11/11/23) - Poll

[deeyo]

Turns out the BBC interviewed a Na'amodnik who was on the Jewish bloc, actually a pretty decent interview:

fine example of a hate marching, holocaust denying, terrorist supporting, self loathing jew-in-name-only rape apologist, is he not ms braverman? ms cooper? ms barlow? mr levy?

 

[Cloo]

Is there any kind of notable reaction to antisemitism from the Right and conspiracist movements? I'm just an observer but I've written a bit on conspiracy stuff especially and the way the Right has been linking up with that over recent years is really consistent and saturated in antisemitism, social media is a hotbed for it (and it's around the edges of all sorts of protests and activism). So rarely seems to get any attention though and even when it does it's usually just a passing nod of 'well of course they're antisemitic', which seems like a weirdly muted reaction.

Rightwing and conspiracist antisemitism is kind of the background hum of our existence really. There's this horrible irony now where things come full circle and now parts of the right are siding with Israel basically because the Left aren't and because of Islamophobia. I think some Jews are being insufficiently critical of new chums who would come for us once they'd got rid of everyone else.

I've had an unusual response to my Threads post mentioned earlier which is an angle I'd never come across before, from someone saying 'we'll deal with Netanyahu after Israel is secure' but in the meantime we 'need to have ONE VOICE', so I read that as saying, well yes, Netanyahu is committing war crimes and we'll deal with that later but can't we at least all get behind Israel for a bit.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Speaking of histrionics, here is a fine example of the genre. She has turned off replies so I have quoted her asking her to provide evidence to back up her claims. I am not very hopeful of a response:

View attachment 399841

I wonder if there could be a successful defamation case here?

 

[teqniq]

I wonder if there could be a successful defamation case here?

I dunno if it's possible but if it is, a class action lawsuit on behalf of that amount of people would be rather spectacular

 

[Sue]

And this:

French march against antisemitism shakes up far right and far left

Far-right leader Marine Le Pen takes part, alongside major parties but the far left refuses.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not forgetting it's not very long ago the leader of the FN (as was) was saying this:

Jean-Marie Le Pen fined again for dismissing Holocaust as 'detail'

French court fines former leader of far-right Front National for third time for calling Nazi gas chambers a mere ‘detail’ of history

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ax^]

Rightwing and conspiracist antisemitism is kind of the background hum of our existence really. There's this horrible irony now where things come full circle and now parts of the right are siding with Israel basically because the Left aren't and because of Islamophobia. I think some Jews are being insufficiently critical of new chums who would come for us once they'd got rid of everyone else.

I've had an unusual response to my Threads post mentioned earlier which is an angle I'd never come across before, from someone saying 'we'll deal with Netanyahu after Israel is secure' but in the meantime we 'need to have ONE VOICE', so I read that as saying, well yes, Netanyahu is committing war crimes and we'll deal with that later but can't we at least all get behind Israel for a bit.

the odd thing about aligning themselves with the worst parts of the evangelistic christian hard right types in the united states is that it is a death cult that believes we are in the end times
they only support the state of israel as they believe its were jewish people should be fighting muslims until the second coming

the guys want something major to kick off the rapture , its a weird tribe march in step in line to

 

[mojo pixy]

I wonder if there could be a successful defamation case here?

That many people could definitely afford a decent lawyer anyway

 

[Gramsci]

I know most posters here rightly see Braverman / Starmer and the right in this country as out for ridicule but it has real world consequences.

My mate at work- I had to explain to him that Palestinians arent all religious nutters/ that Palestinians have not rejected peace/ that settlers in West Bank have still been taking land of them/ that whataboutery does not mean people should not support Palestinians.

Trouble is a lot of hard working people pick up bits and pieces on news.

The counter narrative , unless you watch Al Jazeera , is not their

And there is depressing tendency I find that a lot of people throw up their hands and go their is nothing one can do about these conflicts. In some parts of world its all about religion and thats that.

Both sides are as bad as each other. In fact all sides - including those who went on demo and the far right who went to Cenotaph are all as bad as each other.

And why are you not going on about xyz in another part of world.

Some of it is imo - I work hard / Im a reasonable person/ this is something not to do with me/ Just keep out of it.

I think Starmer is looking at polls and thinking this in end will not effect peoples votes.

 

[sealion]

He runs his own business JT landscaping but hopefully he may find himself short of customers.

He's dug a big fucking hole

 

[ska invita]

I think some organisations put a lot of effort into spreading the idea among Israelis and American Jews that the UK is super-Islamic and we're about to have a Sharia government that's going to declare war on Jews. And they won't believe you when you say 'Mate, I live here, I think I know the political and social landscape better than you do'.

gsv has been having a big set-to with some of his US cousins on Facebook about him attending the march yesterday and they talk a lot about how outnumbered Jews are globally by Islam and I fear they're being pulled into this mindset that Something Needs To Be Done About The Muslims, which is a bit of an ironic fucking line of thought for Jews to take.

An extension of the wider racist great replacement theory popular across europe... No doubt similar far right networks spreading it

 

[Dystopiary]

He runs his own business JT landscaping but hopefully he may find himself short of customers.

But NOT this JT Landscapes:

post 18384844

 

[Wilf]

But NOT this JT Landscapes:

post 18384844

Didn't Giuliani do a press conference at a landscaping company (where his hair dye ran in rivers)?

 

[PTK]

I wonder if there could be a successful defamation case here?

I could not get there, but a friend of mine went on the march. I always thought that she seemed like a nice person, but now I know that beneath that nice exterior is a raging monster.

 

[Dystopiary]

Didn't Giuliani do a press conference at a landscaping company (where his hair dye ran in rivers)?

Don't know where it was but I remember the hair dye.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

It's difficult because there is a degree of generational trauma whereby many Jews really are scared by anything they deem might be antisemitism and there are many Jews and, more significantly, parties that want to leverage Jewish fear to shut various things down that they don't like, who will really play up this fear.

It annoys me and I don't agree with it, but I understand why it happens. Personally, I feel very safe in the UK as a Jew. I've been reflecting that for many centuries we were the outgroup in Europe - sure we know people of colour etc did visit and live in Europe more than perhaps assumed, but we were the outsiders for centuries, with no guaranteed right of settlement anywhere, often restricted in where we could live, trades we could practice etc. But these days in most countries we are not the 'main story' for bigots - sadly to the point some Jews will hide under the wings of, for example, Islamophobes, who say they are on Jews' side. But anyone who goes after any outgroup, be that Muslims, people of colour, LGBTQ+ people - ultimately if they go their way they'd be coming for us too.

But in the UK there is no remotely credible political force that could come into power and turn the national and its institution against Jews. I'd be much more worried about that if I were Muslim. I feel no existential risk from the politics of the UK - yes, there is now a heightened risk of Jewish-targetted terror attacks, and I believe we need to target anti terror policing at preventing this. But I certainly wouldn't feel safer in Israel than the UK, even before all this kicked off - something Israeli and American right wing Jews often intimate 'Oh, you are only safe in Israel'.

Well said, and I trust you realise that criticism on here of the IDF is in no way motivated by antisemitism

 

[Larry O'Hara]

And this:

French march against antisemitism shakes up far right and far left

Far-right leader Marine Le Pen takes part, alongside major parties but the far left refuses.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not forgetting it's not very long ago the leader of the FN (as was) was saying this:

Jean-Marie Le Pen fined again for dismissing Holocaust as 'detail'

French court fines former leader of far-right Front National for third time for calling Nazi gas chambers a mere ‘detail’ of history

www.theguardian.com

To be fair he and his daughter are deadly political enemies

 

[Cloo]

Well said, and I trust you realise that criticism on here of the IDF is in no way motivated by antisemitism

Oh absolutely, but a lot of people won't. There is the, to some extent justifiable, call of 'why Israel so much more than anywhere else?' but as I've said elsewhere, particularly at the moment, the issue is that that unlike Russia or China or various other places, our government makes a big noise about Israel being our allies. It's not just that it's a Jewish state.

That said, my feeling is that quite a lot of people on the Left pick out Israel not so much from antisemitism than being blanket anti-religious - that they see it as 'stupid religious people killing each other Because God Said So', which I think actually misapprehends the conflict. It may have 'started' with religion, but this is people fighting a geopolitical war for homeland, not because God said Muslims or Jews are best, and the Israelis, certainly, are as irreligious as heck and certainly don't generally believe in God (albeit some politicians will use religion in their cynical way)

 

[Wilf]

Don't know where it was but I remember the hair dye.

4 seasons landscaping I think. The theory was he thought he'd booked the hotel of that name.

 

[Gramsci]

And this:

French march against antisemitism shakes up far right and far left

Far-right leader Marine Le Pen takes part, alongside major parties but the far left refuses.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not forgetting it's not very long ago the leader of the FN (as was) was saying this:

Jean-Marie Le Pen fined again for dismissing Holocaust as 'detail'

French court fines former leader of far-right Front National for third time for calling Nazi gas chambers a mere ‘detail’ of history

www.theguardian.com

I was talking to my French friend who lives in Uk today. She was telling me about big demo supporting Palestinians.

Which she agreed with.

 

[deeyo]

Didn't Giuliani do a press conference at a landscaping company (where his hair dye ran in rivers)?

that he did.

Keep on digging: Trump team holds press conference at suburban garden centre

Rudy Giuliani details strategy in the car park of Four Seasons Total Landscaping, a suspected mixup with Four Seasons hotel in Philadelphia

www.theguardian.com

the hair dye melt down happened a bit later though.

Rudy Giuliani’s Hair Dye Melting Off His Face Was the Least Crazy Part of His Batshit-Crazy Press Conference

It was possibly the most insane 90 minutes Giuliani‘s ever been involved in, and that includes his scene in the new Borat movie.

www.vanityfair.com

maybe he should have used this fine companys products? vegan, sustainable & with a big heart...

Four Reasons - Vegan, Sustainable Hair Products with a Big Heart - Salon Hair Care

www.fourreasons.us

 

[Gramsci]

Oh absolutely, but a lot of people won't. There is the, to some extent justifiable, call of 'why Israel so much more than anywhere else?' but as I've said elsewhere, particularly at the moment, the issue is that that unlike Russia or China or various other places, our government makes a big noise about Israel being our allies. It's not just that it's a Jewish state.

That said, my feeling is that quite a lot of people on the Left pick out Israel not so much from antisemitism than being blanket anti-religious - that they see it as 'stupid religious people killing each other Because God Said So', which I think actually misapprehends the conflict. It may have 'started' with religion, but this is people fighting a geopolitical war for homeland, not because God said Muslims or Jews are best, and the Israelis, certainly, are as irreligious as heck and certainly don't generally believe in God (albeit some politicians will use religion in their cynical way)

Sorry your posts are good but this I disagree with.

Reading the history and Zionism was not that religious initially

I don't think left criticism has been that based on religion.

Certainly Ilan Pappe in his book on the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine in 48 does not mention religion much.

The more religious settlers are more recent phenomenon

Ethnic cleansers like David Ben Gurion were the origins of Labour Zionism if I get my history right.

 

[ska invita]

Oh absolutely, but a lot of people won't. There is the, to some extent justifiable, call of 'why Israel so much more than anywhere else?' but as I've said elsewhere, particularly at the moment, the issue is that that unlike Russia or China or various other places, our government makes a big noise about Israel being our allies. It's not just that it's a Jewish state.

That said, my feeling is that quite a lot of people on the Left pick out Israel not so much from antisemitism than being blanket anti-religious - that they see it as 'stupid religious people killing each other Because God Said So', which I think actually misapprehends the conflict. It may have 'started' with religion, but this is people fighting a geopolitical war for homeland, not because God said Muslims or Jews are best, and the Israelis, certainly, are as irreligious as heck and certainly don't generally believe in God (albeit some politicians will use religion in their cynical way)

Really interesting question this....I was talking to someone from Hong Kong new to London and unfamiliar with the Israel Palestine conflict. Coming from a secular country they saw it as a religious conflict...I said as you, it's more about land than it is religion.

But since then I've been doubting what I said a bit as it's absolutely about identity, ethnic and religious. If Palestinians were practiscing Judaism would it make any difference? I think they'd still be othered as arabs. So yeah, not about religion as much but about ethno-states.

 

[PTK]

Oh absolutely, but a lot of people won't. There is the, to some extent justifiable, call of 'why Israel so much more than anywhere else?' but as I've said elsewhere, particularly at the moment, the issue is that that unlike Russia or China or various other places, our government makes a big noise about Israel being our allies. It's not just that it's a Jewish state.

That said, my feeling is that quite a lot of people on the Left pick out Israel not so much from antisemitism than being blanket anti-religious - that they see it as 'stupid religious people killing each other Because God Said So', which I think actually misapprehends the conflict. It may have 'started' with religion, but this is people fighting a geopolitical war for homeland, not because God said Muslims or Jews are best, and the Israelis, certainly, are as irreligious as heck and certainly don't generally believe in God (albeit some politicians will use religion in their cynical way)

Another reason it is in the news so much is that it is the "Holy Land", which is familiar to people from the Bible. We have all heard of Jerusalem, but how many people know the names of any cities in East Timor or South Sudan?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Oh absolutely, but a lot of people won't. There is the, to some extent justifiable, call of 'why Israel so much more than anywhere else?' but as I've said elsewhere, particularly at the moment, the issue is that that unlike Russia or China or various other places, our government makes a big noise about Israel being our allies. It's not just that it's a Jewish state.

That said, my feeling is that quite a lot of people on the Left pick out Israel not so much from antisemitism than being blanket anti-religious - that they see it as 'stupid religious people killing each other Because God Said So', which I think actually misapprehends the conflict. It may have 'started' with religion, but this is people fighting a geopolitical war for homeland, not because God said Muslims or Jews are best, and the Israelis, certainly, are as irreligious as heck and certainly don't generally believe in God (albeit some politicians will use religion in their cynical way)

I think the left objects to Zionism as both a religious and/or a racial monstrosity of a belief system, as appropriate. Also intellectually absurd, and practically obnoxious in every way.

 

[PTK]

Really interesting question this....I was talking to someone from Hong Kong new to London and unfamiliar with the Israel Palestine conflict. Coming from a secular country they saw it as a religious conflict...I said as you, it's more about land than it is religion.

But since then I've been doubting what I said a bit as it's absolutely about identity, ethnic and religious. If Palestinians were practiscing Judaism would it make any difference? I think they'd still be othered as arabs. So yeah, not about religion as much but about ethno-states.

Well, there are Arab Jews in Israel, who moved there from Iraq, Yemen, etc. If the Palestinian Arabs had been overwhelmingly Jewish, then there could not have been a project to settle Europeans there in the name of creating a Jewish homeland.

 

[Gramsci]

Well, there are Arab Jews in Israel, who moved there from Iraq, Yemen, etc. If the Palestinian Arabs had been overwhelmingly Jewish, then there could not have been a project to settle Europeans there in the name of creating a Jewish homeland.

Mizrahi jews have inferior social status in Israel

 

[krtek a houby]

Really interesting question this....I was talking to someone from Hong Kong new to London and unfamiliar with the Israel Palestine conflict. Coming from a secular country they saw it as a religious conflict...I said as you, it's more about land than it is religion.

But since then I've been doubting what I said a bit as it's absolutely about identity, ethnic and religious. If Palestinians were practiscing Judaism would it make any difference? I think they'd still be othered as arabs. So yeah, not about religion as much but about ethno-states.

Prior to the Nakba, there were Palestinian Muslims, Jews and Christians living together in (relative) harmony. This started to change in the '20s.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Mizrahi jews have inferior social status in Israel

They form the bedrock of support for far-right parties. This is quite a depressing article linking Israel's move to the right to demographic shifts in Israeli society.

Demographics help explain Israel's steady march to the right

Israel's right and far-right's hold on power will likely increase unless serious pressure is applied. This prediction is based on a series of demographic shifts, namely the growth of religious, Haredi, and Sephardic and Mizrahi groups, which have filled the void left by the decline of the secular Ashkenazi parties and elites i.e. the State of Israel's founders.

The secular Ashkenazi constituted 85 percent of the Jewish population immediately prior to Israel's establishment, with most ascribing to nationalist socialist politics. This percentage has plummeted: today the secularists (the majority Ashkenazi) form around 40 percent of Israel's Jewish population.

The article was written last year, but I think there's no doubt that there exist many in Israel, including in government, who see this as an opportunity to get rid of Palestinians. So we shouldn't be so surprised by the vile hatred being spewed by some quite openly. That is their stated project, after all.

The emerging alliance - between the Israeli right and extreme right - is expected to work tirelessly to achieve Israeli sovereignty over all of what it considers the "Land of Israel". The Palestinian question must be destroyed alongside the Palestinian presence, and Jewish supremacy between the "river and the sea" secured. The final stage may be the rebuilding of the Third Temple, which the Israeli right dreams of and considers its final goal and destination. While the religious-settler and nationalist right's plan is unlikely to happen in one fell swoop, they are definitely on track to achieving it.

The 'Third Temple' is a reference to the desire to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and build a temple there.

 

[GarveyLives]

British Transport Police are appealing for assistance in relation to their investigation into an incident at Waterloo Station yesterday (11 November 2023), and say that senior detectives are currently reviewing the footage of the incident and that anyone with any information is urged to contact them as soon as possible.

In particular, they believe that the four men in the following images may be able to assist them with their enquiries into the incident:

...

Anyone who knows any of the people should contact British Transport Police by texting 61016 or by calling 0800 40 50 40, quoting reference 217 of 12/11/2023. And you can submit information anonymously by calling Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

Policing made easy.​

 

[Ax^]

jebus the younger sisters bestie has hired their club hall for her 40th next weekend


** edit to add not the first event in the club so might of bumped into kevin before..