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And next, Syria?

camouflage said:
Yes, the war is complex and the best thing would be that the attackers stop attacking and a process of political and diplomatic dialogue is commenced between all interested Syrian parties with input from actual neighbours o Syria. The regime has made it clear that it is willing to enter into that process, the foreign backed crusaders are both unable and unwilling to enter into any such process while the regime is not defeated (signature red and white stripes that).
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What is their to negotiate? The opposition want the Assad regime gone, The regime want to stay in power. Short of the UN descending en mass and making every side play nice. I see little chance of anything useful happening from negotiations the opposition are only united in their hatred of the current regime.
 
dylanredefined said:
What is their to negotiate? The opposition want the Assad regime gone, The regime want to stay in power. Short of the UN descending en mass and making every side play nice. I see little chance of anything useful happening from negotiations the opposition are only united in their hatred of the current regime.
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Yes, this thing started as a movement for much needed political reform in Syria... obviously those people with things to talk about have been shoved aside by alien forces that have no objectives grounded in Syrian society and are pursuing their own absolutist campaign. They are strangers in that country, why should they have stuff to negotiate about, not like they come from home-towns in Syria or have children and families there.

Whole thing is a merry adventure for these battle-dwellers, it's all Sharia this, Jihad that, Martyr the other, they are certainly not interested in boring politics and live-here things like, constitution reforms or electoral processes and UN observance and the like.

These bearded nutters are no more interested in a peace-process than Viking raiders are interested in taking part in the town council of a medieval fishing village, even if everybody does agree that the local lord and his cronies are all dicks.
 
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Assad regime was a one party baathist state not exactly sweden on the middle
East:hmm:
He only looks resonable compared with mad jihadists if he hadnt decided to murder the fuck out of everybody who questioned his right to rule the jihadists would t be running about the place.
Those that started to protest about political situation in syria got murdered by the regimes thugs
only urban would attempt to defend a herditary tryant.:facepalm:
 
likesfish said:
Assad regime was a one party baathist state not exactly sweden on the middle
East:hmm:
He only looks resonable compared with mad jihadists if he hadnt decided to murder the fuck out of everybody who questioned his right to rule the jihadists would t be running about the place.
Those that started to protest about political situation in syria got murdered by the regimes thugs
only urban would attempt to defend a herditary tryant.:facepalm:
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Fuck that.... A, I'm not urban75, I'm a bloke going by the name of camouflage and B, you need to stop imbibing whatever narrative the media tells you to believe and try and employ some more sceptical-analysis of these media-distributed stories that some dodgy think-tank somewhere cooks up for your consumption. I'm not a journalist but even I am aware that the story we are told about how this thing got started is not kosher. Apparently your lovely mates in the Kingdom and the Conspiracy Institute of America et al were hiring and sending in snipers as far back as the peaceful protests stage, cops were being gunned down. It's hardly an unheard of tactic.... trigger brutal state responses against a movement of the population.

Yes the regime no doubt are cunts but so are those that would manipulate the security forces of a tough state in a brutal neighbourhood to actions that kill large numbers of people all so that said manipulators can co-opt and arrest the development of real democratic reform in the country. Who knows, maybe the Saudi's are just in it for the all the orphaned nine year-olds they can score, maybe it's about somebody making wads and wads of sweaty blood-spattered cash, maybe it's the spite of the French, impossible to say really as the rabbles don't seem to stand for anything other than beheadings and yelling "Alahu Akbar" in place of any sort of thought or capacity to reason whatsoever, and of course taking it in turns to serial "marry" and divorce teenage girls.

And what the fuck is so good about Sweden anyway? I doubt that place is really the model of everywhere that wants a restrained service state that democratically governs a prosperous nation in which conflicts of opinion take place politically. Turns out Sweden is as much a rights-stomping rim-sniffer of the USG as Blighty.
 
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camouflage said:
Fuck that.... A, I'm not urban75, I'm a bloke going by the name of camouflage and B, you need to stop imbibing whatever narrative the media tells you to believe and try and employ some more sceptical-analysis of these media-distributed stories that some dodgy think-tank somewhere cooks up for your consumption. I'm not a journalist but even I am aware that the story we are told about how this thing got started is not kosher. Apparently your lovely mates in the Kingdom and the Conspiracy Institute of America et al were hiring and sending in snipers as far back as the peaceful protests stage, cops were being gunned down. It's hardly an unheard of tactic.... trigger brutal state responses against a movement of the population.

Yes the regime no doubt are cunts but so are those that would manipulate the security forces of a tough state in a brutal neighbourhood to actions that kill large numbers of people all so that said manipulators can co-opt and arrest the development of real democratic reform in the country. Who knows, maybe the Saudi's are just in it for the all the orphaned nine year-olds they can score, maybe it's about somebody making wads and wads of sweaty blood-spattered cash, maybe it's the spite of the French, impossible to say really as the rabble don't seem to stand for anything other than their beheading and yelling "Alahu Akbar" in place of any sort of thought or capacity to reason whatsoever, and of course taking it in turns to serial "marry" and divorce teenage girls.

And what the fuck is so good about Sweden anyway? I doubt that place is really the model of everywhere that wants a restrained service state that democratically governs a prosperous nation in which conflicts of opinion take place politically. Turns out Sweden is as much a rights-stomping rim-sniffer of the USG as Blighty.
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Get over yourself.
 
camoflague what the fuck are you on about.
camouflage said:
Yes, this thing started as a movement for much needed political reform in Syria... obviously those people with things to talk about have been shoved aside by alien forces that have no objectives grounded in Syrian society and are pursuing their own absolutist campaign.
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And why did that happen? Because Assad, rather than seizing the opportunity to make some of these much needed political reforms decided against that and sent in shabiha and secret police to ruthlessly murder the democratic political activists as soon as possible. He made it into a civil war, he in effect opened the door for every wahhabist and jihadi in the middle-east to come, with the backing of longstanding regional enemies, as a result of this huge strategic miscalculation. He behaved exactly like the Ba'athist murdering bastard we expected and sent in his goons, and it's ended up with Syria totally destroyed.

All you can really say is that the yanks made a mistake too when they reacted to this, thinking Syria's Ba'ath party and state apparatus would collapse inwards once under pressure like Iraq did. It didn't, Syria has a much stronger state than Iraq, and Assad is a much more competent and shrewd man than Saddam Hussein but every bit as brutal and merciless. So instead of being able to take out Assad, and bring Iran to the negotiating table on the US's terms, they've had to settle for a crippled Syria in a state of perpetual sectarian war.

The role of the Gulf kingdoms is also interesting and complicated. Rather than helping the presence of the jihadi fighters you've mentioned have actually hindered the rebels in Syria in key ways. Not only has it acted as a unifying factor for the government, giving non-sunni's a good reason to cling to the otherwise hated regime, it also ruined any hope of western intervention on their behalf, which ultimately is what they needed all along if they were going to have any chance of succeeding.

camouflage said:
They are strangers in that country, why should they have stuff to negotiate about, not like they come from home-towns in Syria or have children and families there.
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And this is also not true. A great many of the rebels do come from Syria, and this rebellion might've been sponsored from abroad but it started in Syria. You're uncritically accepting the Assad-loyalist line that all the rebels are just foreign terrorists jihadi's and you'll end up sounding like Casually Red if you too much of that at face value.
 
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dylanredefined said:
What is their to negotiate? The opposition want the Assad regime gone, The regime want to stay in power. Short of the UN descending en mass and making every side play nice. I see little chance of anything useful happening from negotiations the opposition are only united in their hatred of the current regime.
Click to expand...

the syrian people ...alone...will decide theur future and who stays and who goes, not Saudi Arabia, Turkey, The Muslim Brotherhood, NATO and the zionists. The Jihadis and their backers refuse to countenance the syrian people ever being permitted that choice, thats why they continually refuse to enter negotiations . They insist upon the outcome of any negotiations being pre determined on their terms alone . Thats simply not going to happen . Because the syrian people refuse to bow down and let that happen. And thats why the contras are being hammered all over the place by Syrians of all persuasions. Who are paying a massive human price to determine their own future and not have it decided for them .
 
Casually Red said:
the syrian people ...alone...will decide theur future and who stays and who goes, not Saudi Arabia, Turkey, The Muslim Brotherhood, NATO and the zionists. The Jihadis and their backers refuse to countenance the syrian people ever being permitted that choice, thats why they continually refuse to enter negotiations . They insist upon the outcome of any negotiations being pre determined on their terms alone . Thats simply not going to happen . Because the syrian people refuse to bow down and let that happen. And thats why the contras are being hammered all over the place by Syrians of all persuasions. Who are paying a massive human price to determine their own future and not have it decided for them .
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Maybe they just don't want to live under a dictator anymore.
 
camouflage said:
Yes, this thing started as a movement for much needed political reform in Syria... obviously those people with things to talk about have been shoved aside by alien forces that have no objectives grounded in Syrian society and are pursuing their own absolutist campaign. They are strangers in that country, why should they have stuff to negotiate about, not like they come from home-towns in Syria or have children and families there.

Whole thing is a merry adventure for these battle-dwellers, it's all Sharia this, Jihad that, Martyr the other, they are certainly not interested in boring politics and live-here things like, constitution reforms or electoral processes and UN observance and the like.

These bearded nutters are no more interested in a peace-process than Viking raiders are interested in taking part in the town council of a medieval fishing village, even if everybody does agree that the local lord and his cronies are all dicks.
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there was more to it than that though. The many powerful elements waiting their chance to destabilise and destroy syria went to work simultaneously with those protests. They started sniping almost immediately, killing dozens right from the outset. Syrias enemies didnt simply see an opportunity and try and take advantage later, they were ready and waiting from the very beginning and the evidence is there to point to their activities behind the entire situation. Thta former french minister has openly admitted he knew it would be kicking off well in advance and the western powers were going to make sure it did to ensure syrias downfall. Their people were on the ground waiting befire it happened, not toddling along afterwards.
 
camouflage said:
Apparently your lovely mates in the Kingdom and the Conspiracy Institute of America et al were hiring and sending in snipers as far back as the peaceful protests stage, cops were being gunned down. It's hardly an unheard of tactic.... trigger brutal state responses against a movement of the population.
.
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we saw it in Venezuela as well. And the same eejits on here would have happily swallowed that rubbish had it not been for the Venezuelan people unexpectedly rewriting the script. Just as the syrian people are rewriting this one.
 
likesfish said:
Assad regime was a one party baathist state not exactly sweden on the middle
East:hmm:
He only looks resonable compared with mad jihadists if he hadnt decided to murder the fuck out of everybody who questioned his right to rule the jihadists would t be running about the place.
Those that started to protest about political situation in syria got murdered by the regimes thugs
only urban would attempt to defend a herditary tryant.:facepalm:
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Sadly its not only on Urban were we see people insisting the saudis and AQ are battling for democracy.
 
Casually Red said:
theres elections next year. They can dump Assad at the ballot box if they want . People like you though dont want them to have the opportunity to vote for the wrong person. Because you know better than them, as always.
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How on earth is that going to work ? The idea that the west had some great plan for Syria is Jazz like lunacy the Arab spring took them completely by surprise and they have been playing catch up ever since.
 
The plan for assad and gadaffi was to sell them loads of shit as they had seen what happened to saddam and decided to play nice or at least not be murdeous fuckwits:hmm:
Their people deciding to get rid of them came as a nasty suprise gadaffi had pissed everybody off so he had no chance.
Assad seem as somebody the west could cope with till he decided lets kill anybody who disagrees with me.
 
Mr.Bishie said:
A vote for who? The dead, or refugees in other countries?

Jesus fucking wept.
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al qaeda and its affiliates have declared all out war on syria and your blaming the syrian government for the ensuing casualties of that war. They make so secret of their desire to eradicate Syrias national minorities , openly do that on the districts under their control, and your blaming the Syrian state for the refugee crisis !!. 450, 000 christians alone have fled , tens of thousands of kurds .Jesus fucking wept indeed .
 
likesfish said:
The plan for assad and gadaffi was to sell them loads of shit as they had seen what happened to saddam and decided to play nice or at least not be murdeous fuckwits:hmm:
Their people deciding to get rid of them came as a nasty suprise gadaffi had pissed everybody off so he had no chance.
Assad seem as somebody the west could cope with till he decided lets kill anybody who disagrees with me.
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it was 9 months of non stop nato bombing that got rid of the Libyan state, not the Libyan people by any means . There were barely 50, 000 militia at the height of that conflict and until NATO went to war it was on the verge of being over for good within a matter of days. You just swallow the BBC line, soldiers being issued with viagra et al, no matter what.
And if the syrian people wanted rid of Assad hed have been gone long ago. Instead theyve rallied to fight for their nation, his army is overwhelmingly sunni and its stood firm for the most part and continues to recruit heavily. And its winning .
 
anyways, as things stand at the minute it looks like Syria will eventually defeat these fucks , but at a massive human cost . The Iranian nuclear deal seems to have completely sucked whatever appetite was left for war out of the western powers. Its sidelined the war mongers not only in the western capitals but among the saudis, kuwaitis, Qataris and zionists. The manipulated uprising has failed,the nerve gas provocation has failed, attempts by the British, French and US leaderships to get their own states to go to war have miserably failed
...the saudis and their mates are commiserating over their utter failure to get a western war machine on the move and the zionists are on the verge of getting the international cold shoulder if they even try and fuck this one up .

The attempts by the former British and French colonial powers and their jihadist surrogates to make preconditions to negotiations that Assad be removed from power is being openly scoffed at as delusional. That will never happen now. Those are major defeats on all fronts for Syrias enemies.
 
Casually Red said:
al qaeda and its affiliates have declared all out war on syria and your blaming the syrian government for the ensuing casualties of that war. They make so secret of their desire to eradicate Syrias national minorities , openly do that on the districts under their control, and your blaming the Syrian state for the refugee crisis !!. 450, 000 christians alone have fled , tens of thousands of kurds .Jesus fucking wept indeed .
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Give over ffs
 
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