The next American Civil War

[Yuwipi Woman]

It doesn't imply that.

I'm not saying that you personally are implying that, but the argument doesn't make sense without that context.

 

[Yossarian]

Stranger in my own country could also mean someone voting Democrat in Alabama though couldn't it? I wouldn't necessarily conclude everyone feeling that way is fash.

Yep, it doesn't seem unusual for the phrase to be used by Black Americans and other minorities.

Buttigieg acknowledged he faces a “challenge” in introducing himself to many black voters, before pivoting to his own experience as a gay man. “I do not have the experience of ever being discriminated against because of the color of my skin,” Buttigieg said. “I do have the experience of feeling like a stranger in my own country, turning on the news and seeing my own rights coming up for debate.”

Democratic debate highlights: Experience and race at forefront as healthcare talk fades

The fifth presidential debate featured sharp exchanges on Wednesday over outreach to minority voters, the role of U.S. diplomacy and which of the Democratic contenders is best prepared to lead.

www.reuters.com

"I feel like a stranger in my own country,” I remember saying with exasperation to my editor the morning after the 1994 election that saw a “Republican Revolution” take over both houses of Congress for the first time in more than 40 years. As an African American and a gay American, I’d grown accustomed to that feeling. One where we were viewed and made to feel like we were apart from rather than a part of this great nation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/07/06/no-longer-feeling-like-a-stranger-in-my-own-country/

 

[Nylock]

Just seen a bunch of vids about how, despite the clear warning signs of what's to come if the republicans seize control of congress, both houses are likely to flip republican in the midterms and that a significant number of republican congressional candidates are trumpist headbangers. The supreme court have already trailered a bunch of soon-to-be-egregious rulings in the upcoming session as well. WTF is actually going on over there? What makes an electorate get a lick of the fires that'll consume them and decide to go all in in a 'woohoo, roast me baby!' kind of gesture??!?!

It would appear that the US is irredeemably fucked. It seems that anyone who is remotely 'left' or believes in the US constitution and the doctrine of 'seperation of church and state' might need to tool up and prep like fuck. It's looking like you guys are in for a bumpy (and ugly) ride over the next ten years or so. 2024 is looking more and more like a doomsday countdown than just another general election. Easpecially if 2022 goes as it's predicted to

 

[Humberto]

Just seen a bunch of vids about how, despite the clear warning signs of what's to come if the republicans seize control of congress, both houses are likely to flip republican in the midterms and that a significant number of republican congressional candidates are trumpist headbangers. The supreme court have already trailered a bunch of soon-to-be-egregious rulings in the upcoming session as well. WTF is actually going on over there? What makes an electorate get a lick of the fires that'll consume them and decide to go all in in a 'woohoo, roast me baby!' kind of gesture??!?!

It would appear that the US is irredeemably fucked. It seems that anyone who is remotely 'left' or believes in the US constitution and the doctrine of 'seperation of church and state' might need to tool up and prep like fuck. It's looking like you guys are in for a bumpy (and ugly) ride over the next ten years or so. 2024 is looking more and more like a doomsday countdown than just another general election. Easpecially if 2022 goes as it's predicted to

I'm not dismissing this or saying you are hyperbolic, I'm just wary that every pundit 'in America' has been shouting about the end of democracy for years/decades. And at the end of the day, even if the QAnon, Maga hat wearers don't wise up they/we are still headed for climate castastrophe anyway.

 

[frogwoman]

Just because they were going on about it for ages doesn't mean they're wrong. And tbh that sort of punditry is often a self fulfilling prophecy anyway

 

[frogwoman]

And yeah I didn't think it would unravel as quickly as this but listening to 5-4 is giving me a grim feeling about 2024 tbh. It could even be sooner than that

 

[Nylock]

I'm not dismissing this or saying you are hyperbolic, I'm just wary that every pundit 'in America' has been shouting about the end of democracy for years/decades. And at the end of the day, even if the QAnon, Maga hat wearers don't wise up they/we are still headed for climate castastrophe anyway.

I'm well aware of the bolded bit and thus the risk of looking like the italicised bit. However, it's feeling a lot more ominous these days. It's not the sort of environment you'd want to risk being complacent in.

 

[Humberto]

Well we can't help them. They can only sort it themselves. Whether they help or hinder themselves or us as the world enters perennial graduating climate problems, is in their court.

 

[frogwoman]

We can't do anything one way or another but an illegitimate election let alone a civil war or anything approaching it in a nuclear armed state which is the largest economy in the world will have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the world.

 

[Humberto]

We can't do anything one way or another but an illegitimate election let alone a civil war or anything approaching it in a nuclear armed state which is the largest economy in the world will have catastrophic consequences for the rest of the world.

This is true. And as I say, while I don't dismiss the gravity, which Nylock describes, I'm sick as of years ago of people throwing fuel onto the fire for clicks (not on here), as if that's a wholesome or legitimate enterprise.

 

[frogwoman]

This is true. And as I say, while I don't dismiss the gravity, which Nylock describes, I'm sick as of years ago of people throwing fuel onto the fire for clicks, as if that's a wholseome legitimate enterprise.

Yeah, that's why I was saying a lot of the punditry has kinda been a self fulfilling prophecy tbh, especially but not exclusively on the Republican side. It's been obvious for years

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think just talking about the possibility is necessarily fuelling it though. There's ways of doing it.

 

[frogwoman]

And the extreme wing of the Republican party has been preparing for this and openly discussing a civil war etc for 50+ years in a way that democrats, the left and even slightly less extreme Republicans haven't really done at all until recently.

 

[Humberto]

I don't think just talking about the possibility is necessarily fuelling it though. There's ways of doing it.

Sure, they need to back their institutions, academic and democratic for example. Seems like any old rambling wanker can make waves now.

 

[frogwoman]

Sure, they need to back their institutions, academic and democratic for example. Seems like any old rambling wanker can make waves now.

I don't see how they can when any institution even ones that are supposed to be apolitical like the courts are being used as a weapon. I also don't think replacing the Republicans with Democrats when they die would solve the problem at all in the long term tbh, although it might be their best option

 

[Humberto]

I don't see how they can when any institution even ones that are supposed to be apolitical like the courts are being used as a weapon. I also don't think replacing the Republicans with Democrats when they die would solve the problem at all in the long term tbh, although it might be their best option

The country does seem to have a natural divide though, that can be exploited unfortunately. For all that unites them (or did), there are vast spaces of poverty both rural and urban. At the end of the day Capitalism is the corrosive agent here.

 

[David Clapson]

It's all rooted in white racism and fear of the other. The white right try to dress it up as something else but they live in fear of young African-American men on a spree of ultra-violent home invasions. The rate of imprisonment of these men has declined by about a third. It's still 5 or 6 times higher than for white men. The white right opposes the libtards on every issue in order to reduce their power so that they don't succeed in keeping even more 'black criminals' out of jail. They all tell you that these men deserve to be there. They're deaf to the argument that many of them are only there because they're on pre-trial remand for something trivial and can't afford bail. It's one of the worst abuses of human rights in the world...millions of people jailed without trial, sometimes for years, in the country which claims to be a beacon of freedom. The right whites know that if the situation was reversed, they'd rebel. They'd storm the jails. They'd lynch people in droves. It's hard for them to grasp why anyone wouldn't rise up, after slavery and the Jim Crow laws and all the ways that the police have managed to keep Jim Crow going to the present day. So it's very, very easy to convince right whites they are fighting for their survival and the survival of America. Because America was never meant for anyone but whites.

 

[tim]

And the extreme wing of the Republican party has been preparing for this and openly discussing a civil war etc for 50+ years in a way that democrats, the left and even slightly less extreme Republicans haven't really done at all until recently.

50 years ago the extreme wing of the Republicans were in or on the Southern "Dixiecrat" fringes of the Democrats, and had just lost a low-intensity civil war.

 

[LDC]

It's all rooted in white racism and fear of the other. The white right try to dress it up as something else but they live in fear of young African-American men on a spree of ultra-violent home invasions. The rate of imprisonment of these men has declined by about a third. It's still 5 or 6 times higher than for white men. The white right opposes the libtards on every issue in order to reduce their power so that they don't succeed in keeping even more 'black criminals' out of jail. They all tell you that these men deserve to be there. They're deaf to the argument that many of them are only there because they're on pre-trial remand for something trivial and can't afford bail. It's one of the worst abuses of human rights in the world...millions of people jailed without trial, sometimes for years, in the country which claims to be a beacon of freedom. The right whites know that if the situation was reversed, they'd rebel. They'd storm the jails. They'd lynch people in droves. It's hard for them to grasp why anyone wouldn't rise up, after slavery and the Jim Crow laws and all the ways that the police have managed to keep Jim Crow going to the present day. So it's very, very easy to convince right whites they are fighting for their survival and the survival of America. Because America was never meant for anyone but whites.

I suggest you read this, it's a more nuanced take on some of that stuff. It's not all as simple as based in racism, the far right and fascism divides along all sorts of lines.

Insurgent Supremacists: The U.S. Far Right's Challenge to State and Empire

This book takes readers on a tour of neonazis and Christian theocrats, by way of the patriot movement, the LaRouchites, and the alt-right.

pmpress.org

 

[tim]

I suggest you read this, it's a more nuanced take on some of that stuff. It's not all as simple as based in racism, the far right and fascism divides along all sorts of lines.

Insurgent Supremacists: The U.S. Far Right's Challenge to State and Empire

This book takes readers on a tour of neonazis and Christian theocrats, by way of the patriot movement, the LaRouchites, and the alt-right.

pmpress.org

Nuance is far to woke for David Clapson

 

[petee]

while certain posters (no names) continue to tell us from their comfort there in the UK that what's happening here in the US isn't such a big deal, i give you this republican

GOP Rep. Kinzinger publishes 'unhinged' voicemail threats left by Trump supporters

Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., released a compilation of threatening voicemail messages left by apparent Trump supporters.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Blatant proto-fascist policy that the fascists on the Supreme Court will hold up as constitutional - if they even agree to hear it.

New law will survey Florida students, professors on political views

Colleges could lose funding if survey of "ideas and perspectives" fails to satisfy state's GOP-run legislature

www.salon.com

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Blatant proto-fascist policy that the fascists on the Supreme Court will hold up as constitutional - if they even agree to hear it.

New law will survey Florida students, professors on political views

Colleges could lose funding if survey of "ideas and perspectives" fails to satisfy state's GOP-run legislature

www.salon.com

This is just a prelude to removing people who don't support the governor's agenda. And if DeSantas gets elected President in a couple of years, they'll take it nationwide. The US is in serious trouble if this stands.

 

[spring-peeper]

Blatant proto-fascist policy that the fascists on the Supreme Court will hold up as constitutional - if they even agree to hear it.

New law will survey Florida students, professors on political views

Colleges could lose funding if survey of "ideas and perspectives" fails to satisfy state's GOP-run legislature

www.salon.com

Couldn't everyone just say republican and be done with it?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Couldn't everyone just say republican and be done with it?

When I told a friend that I'd switched my voter registration to Republican, he suggested that it would make me safer when the Republicans took the gloves off. I doubt it would stand up to close scrutiny, but it might get me a pass if they don't look closely. It really does look like we're closing in on a system where you have to be a party member to get and keep your job. And, not surprisingly, they're going after educators and educated people first. Where have I heard that before..... ?

 

[petee]

When I told a friend that I'd switched my voter registration to Republican, he suggested that it would make me safer when the Republicans took the gloves off. I doubt it would stand up to close scrutiny, but it really does look like we're closing in a system where you have to be a party member to get and keep jobs. Where have I heard that before..... ?

well since we're sharing, i was a registered republican for about 23 years. i registered in no party when i registered, but my father found out and to shut him up i registered GOP. this wasn't too conflictual as long as the NYS GOP maintained its relatively liberal pose (too long to detail here). but then iraq happened and out i went.

 

[frogwoman]

When I told a friend that I'd switched my voter registration to Republican, he suggested that it would make me safer when the Republicans took the gloves off. I doubt it would stand up to close scrutiny, but it might get me a pass if they don't look closely. It really does look like we're closing in a system where you have to be a party member to get and keep your job. And, not surprisingly, they're going after educators and educated people first. Where have I heard that before..... ?

Why did you change out of interest?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

well since we're sharing, i was a registered republican for about 23 years. i registered in no party when i registered, but my father found out and to shut him up i registered GOP. this wasn't too conflictual as long as the NYS GOP maintained its relatively liberal pose (too long to detail here). but then iraq happened and out i went.

Why did you change out of interest?

I registered as Republican because I live in a deep, red state and that's the only way to have any say in who gets elected. I can only vote in the Republican primary if I'm a registered Republican. In the Nov. election, I'll vote for the Democrat, but they won't win.

 

[frogwoman]

I registered as Republican because I live in a deep, red state and that's the only way to have any say in who gets elected. I can only vote in the Republican primary if I'm a registered Republican. In the Nov. election, I'll vote for the Democrat, but they won't win.

Jeez

 

[bluescreen]

I registered as Republican because I live in a deep, red state and that's the only way to have any say in who gets elected. I can only vote in the Republican primary if I'm a registered Republican. In the Nov. election, I'll vote for the Democrat, but they won't win.

You mentioned it on here before, iirc. You're not the only person I've heard of who's felt impelled to do that, to vote for the least worst option of GOP candidate, but will then vote D in the election.