And next, Syria?

[goldenecitrone]

his hole, were most of his other facts are plucked from .

How would you categorise the ratio of Syrians fighting against Assad to foreign fighters?

 

[Sirena]

Have you been following the uprising in Sryia? Over the last 2 and a half years?

Funnily enough, yes.

 

[Casually Red]

Nah, top level US and UK politicos including our own Prime Monster have been actively and publicly attacking Russia over this issue

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...nocks-putin-on-gay-rights-draws-big-response/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/04/g20-summit-putin-gay-rights-russia-obama

Look at the countries of the G20. Given that Saudi Arabia executes people for being gay and in parts of Indonesia you can be imprisoned for being gay, does it really make sense to make an example of Russia's record on gay rights?

Clearly homophobic legislation is unacceptable anywhere, but the public lambasting of Russia over it, and the attempt to manufacture consent for a war on that basis, is just so nakedly insincere it should shame all of them.

and remember its not even a teeny weeny bit illegal to be gay in Russia .

Thousands of gays are fleeing Poland for the UK to escape persecution there,gay pride prades banned from the capital , some absolute horror stories here but Ive no memory of calls to boycott the Euro football finals in Poland

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/01/gayrights.uk

or Ukraine despite a homophobic law coming in there that amkes the Russian clause 28 look poitively enlightened

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19881905

Its political propaganda.

 

[goldenecitrone]

and remember its not even a teeny weeny bit illegal to be gay in Russia .

Thousands of gays are fleeing Poland for the UK to escape persecution there,gay pride prades banned from the capital , some absolute horror stories here but Ive no memory of calls to boycott the Euro football finals in Poland

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/01/gayrights.uk

or Ukraine despite a homophobic law coming in there that amkes the Russian clause 28 look poitively enlightened

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19881905

Its political propaganda.

r
All around the world there are despicable regimes that are legislating against homosexuality. Russia just happens to be part of the UN table of 5. I think they have enough clout to be held up under the spotlight. In 1939 even Henry Ford was an anti-semite. Why judge Nazi Germany?

 

[Casually Red]

How would you categorise the ratio of Syrians fighting against Assad to foreign fighters?

I wouldnt , because I dont know . All I do know is theres a lot of them and they feature heavily in many of the videos and reports from there. I also know the answer isnt up your hole so I certainly wont be taking my facts from there, thankyou very much .
John Kerry was anxious to minimise their involvement, so Id be inclined to regard his estimate as extremely conservative given the political embarassment potential it has for his case . And consider it to be significantly higher than that .

 

[Casually Red]

r
All around the world there are despicable regimes that are legislating against homosexuality. Russia just happens to be part of the UN table of 5. I think they have enough clout to be held up under the spotlight. In 1939 even Henry Ford was an anti-semite. Why judge Nazi Germany?

so its gas chambers for gays in Russia now . Very good .

 

[goldenecitrone]

I wouldnt , because I dont know . All I do know is theres a lot of them and they feature heavily in many of the videos and reports from there. I also know the answer isnt up your hole so I certainly wont be taking my facts from there, thankyou very much .
John Kerry was anxious to minimise their involvement, so Id be inclined to regard his estimate as extremely conservative given the political embarassment potential it has for his case . And consider it to be significantly higher than that .

This is where we differ. I still look at it as a mass uprising against a repressive regime. You see it as an influx of Al Q fightets against a secular government against Islam. Neither of us know the truth on the ground. But as long as you post your prejudices views, I will post mine. And may Assad be cast out, whichever way.

 

[Casually Red]

Al Q doesn't exist, as you well know. OBL is dead,

that will come as quite a surprise to the thousands of jihadists in Syria openly proclaiming their membership of Al Qaeda, and allegiance to OBLs replacement . And to Ayman al-Zawahiri whos giving them open instructions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/syria-iraq-al-qaeda-merger-annulment_n_3415138.html

this fact didnt come out of your hole, therefore looks remarkably different to the latest one that did

 

[goldenecitrone]

that will come as quite a surprise to the thousands of jihadists in Syria openly proclaiming their membership of Al Qaeda, and allegiance to OBLs replacement . And to Ayman al-Zawahiri whos giving them open instructions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/syria-iraq-al-qaeda-merger-annulment_n_3415138.html

this fact didnt come out of your hole, therefore looks remarkably different to the latest one that did

Funny, isn't it? how 10 years ago everyone was disputing the existence of this organisation as it looked like a reason for the US to swap the fight against the commies for a fight against Al Q to prolong their arms spend. But now you are going along with the neocons and their perpetual war on terror against an unquanifiable enemy. How times change.

 

[Casually Red]

This is where we differ. I still look at it as a mass uprising against a repressive regime. You see it as an influx of Al Q fightets against a secular government against Islam. Neither of us know the truth on the ground. But as long as you post your prejudices views, I will post mine. And may Assad be cast out, whichever way.

Where we differ is I use actual sources to back my points up, and dont make a claim I cant attempt to back up with sources, whereas your openly admitting the rubbish your posting has been made up by you simply for the sake of it to amplify your prejudices . I dont attempt to quantify with any precison the influx of foreign fighters, I simply assume John Kerry has a political necessity to significantly minimise his estimate because he has a lot of reasons to do so . Which isnt unreasonable .

What your openly admitting to doing is tantamount to trolling and spamming and if you keep it up Ill have to stick you on ignore . Im here to debate the issue, to inform and be informed by others in turn . Not to argue the toss with contrarians just for the sake of it .

 

[Casually Red]

Funny, isn't it? how 10 years ago everyone was disputing the existence of this organisation as it looked like a reason for the US to swap the fight against the commies for a fight against Al Q to prolong their arms spend. But now you are going along with the neocons and their perpetual war on terror against an unquanifiable enemy. How times change.

call me old fashioned but the statements from the Al Nusra front leaders announcing their allegiance to OBLs replacement , from Al Qaeda in Iraq announcing their merger with Al Nusra, and from Ayman al-Zawahiri telling them to sort it out tends to indicate it does exist . Ive never espoused the view it didnt . And yet agin youve been proven to be talking a load of shite and are derailing with yet another issue .

Sort yourself out or stfu

 

[goldenecitrone]

Where we differ is I use actual sources to back my points up, and dont make a claim I cant attempt to back up with sources, whereas your openly admitting the rubbish your posting has been made up by you simply for the sake of it to amplify your prejudices . I dont attempt to quantify with any precison the influx of foreign fighters, I simply assume John Kerry has a political necessity to significantly minimise his estimate because he has a lot of reasons to do so . Which isnt unreasonable .

What your openly admitting to doing is tantamount to trolling and spamming and if you keep it up Ill have to stick you on ignore . Im here to debate the issue, to inform and be informed by others in turn . Not to argue the toss with contrarians just for the sake of it .

Well, I have sympathy for your point of view. And I can step back and look at the rhetoric from both sides. Stick me on ignore if that helps you understand the complexities of this tragic situation,

 

[Casually Red]

well as your not, and i dont believe ever have been, personally abusive towards me or running any kind of agenda towards me I really dont want to do that . But I can only argue for or against facts . Id just prefer it if youd back yours up as opposed to just voicing a prejudice . The Syrian war will not be lost or won on this thread so theres no point falling out .

 

[Casually Red]

Islamists on a quest to kill Assad is comparable to the Spanish Civil War..

It certainly is . In an attempt to overthrow the Spanish government and because the Spanish army stayed largely loyal to the government the fascists had to call in tens of thousands of Muslim troops from the middle east . They proclaimed they were on a jihad against secular unbelievers and committed horrific atrocities . The Russians supported the Spanish government then too while the western powers largely supported the fascists uprising and the jihadists to one degree or another . Good comparison .

Vive la revolution

the spanish or french one ? Bearing in mind the Spanish uprising was a fascist affair .

 

[camouflage]

 

[J Ed]

It certainly is . In an attempt to overthrow the Spanish government and because the Spanish army stayed largely loyal to the government the fascists had to call in tens of thousands of Muslim troops from the middle east . They proclaimed they were on a jihad against secular unbelievers and committed horrific atrocities . The Russians supported the Spanish government then too while the western powers largely supported the fascists uprising and the jihadists to one degree or another . Good comparison .

He isn't the first one to make the comparison see http://www.albavolunteer.org/2013/05/the-new-non-intervention-syria-and-the-spanish-civil-war/ but it's a really stupid comparison anyway imo

 

[Fuchs66]

The job of an international chemical weapons inspector is one of the most dangerous in the world. Inspectors have to seek out some of the most poisonous substances known to mankind and dismantle bombs filled with deadly nerve gas. So it is remarkable that, after more than two decades of chemical weapons destruction, not a single inspector has been killed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/13/destroying-chemical-weapons-syria-challenge

Well knock me down with a rubber chicken, just call me Mr Danger!

 

[gosub]

so statistically its a less dangerous job than being a lollipop lady

 

[Fuchs66]

so statistically its a less dangerous job than being a lollipop lady

Oh fuck off! Let me run with that for a while

 

[Fuchs66]

Also there are far more lollypop ladies than Inspectors and we are better trained

 

[Nylock]

Looks like the US and Russia have come up with a plan of sorts.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24100296

..The US are still reserving the right to unilateral action though..

 

[gosub]

Nearly half the rebel fighters in Syria are now aligned to jihadist or hardline Islamist groups according to a new analysis of factions in the country's civil war.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html

 

[gosub]

http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-report-united-nations-un-inspectors

suppose we find out about the spec of rocket on Monday

 

[J Ed]

Can any pro-interventionists explain to me why the US should be intervening in Syria but not in the Mexican drug war? Many more people have died in the Mexican drug war than in the Syrian Civil War, and it's probably one of the few conflicts where deaths are often even more brutal than in Syria, and it's right there next to the US. Surely the American army should be intervening in DC to get America to implement some sensible drug laws or at least to stop the country arming the main combatants?

 

[camouflage]

Can any pro-interventionists explain to me why the US should be intervening in Syria but not in the Mexican drug war? Many more people have died in the Mexican drug war than in the Syrian Civil War, and it's probably one of the few conflicts where deaths are often even more brutal than in Syria, and it's right there next to the US. Surely the American army should be intervening in DC to get America to implement some sensible drug laws or at least to stop the country arming the main combatants?

That wouldn't be useful, NAFTA is up and running and US corporations are free to spread toxic pigfactory shit and the like in Mexico without interference, plus the hordes of cheap brown labor and all the use to be extracted from that... they got a good thing going with the situation just as it is. Why on Earth would they need to start fussing about poor loser Mexican bitches getting disappeared and beheaded now? What are you anyway some sorta bleeding heart liberal?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The US does intervene in the Mexican drug war - not directly with the military but by providing training and equipment to the Mexican government.

 

[laptop]

The US does intervene in the Mexican drug war - not directly with the military but by providing training and equipment to the Mexican government.

I seem to recall that there's funding, too.

There's definitely intelligence support: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/03/AR2010120306820.html (quoting WikiLeaks documents).

 

[Delroy Booth]

The US does intervene in the Mexican drug war - not directly with the military but by providing training and equipment to the Mexican government.

And the US intervenes in Syria too. Both directly, with covert forces and all sorts of proxy fighters, and indirectly, for instance by having a load of destroyers and submarines lingering off the Syrian coast. All that exerts a big influence.

This just shows that the word intervention is another one of those horrible military euphemisms for invade or occupy.

 

[camouflage]

The US does intervene in the Mexican drug war - not directly with the military but by providing training and equipment to the Mexican government.

Hm, sounds glibly similar to their interventions in Colombia.

 

[camouflage]

And the US intervenes in Syria too. Both directly, with covert forces and all sorts of proxy fighters, and indirectly, for instance by having a load of destroyers and submarines lingering off the Syrian coast. All that exerts a big influence.

This just shows that the word intervention is another one of those horrible military euphemisms for invade or occupy.

Or fiddle about with and manipulate. They should replace it with the word 'grooming' really.