Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[sihhi]

A Radical Routes gathering last year.

In all honesty, why are AGMs called Gatherings?

 

[tufty79]

.

 

[Tom A]

In all honesty, why are AGMs called Gatherings?

Makes it sound all communal, non-hierarchical and part of One Nice Big and Welcoming Community, rather than some boring and sterile business meeting - ugh, that sounds so capitalist, yeuch!

 

[sihhi]

i know this is their perception of me/them - i'm the short paragraph that mentions brixton (where i've never worked) see the activism gaps compared to everyone else

I still don't get it: Why would people sign your name as a member of taking out a loan if you didn't give consent to it?

 

[rekil]

Makes it sound all communal, non-hierarchical and part of One Nice Big and Welcoming Community, rather than some boring and sterile business meeting - ugh, that sounds so capitalist, yeuch!

It's what the Irish government calls their campaign to gouge a few shillins out of ex-pats. It has tribaly celticy connotations.

http://www.thegatheringireland.com/

Official site has "fighting" spirit rather than "entrepreneurial" spirit.

Communities throughout Ireland are showcasing and sharing the very best of Irish culture, tradition, business, sport, fighting spirit and the uniquely Irish sense of fun.

 

[tufty79]

I still don't get it: Why would people sign your name as a member of taking out a loan if you didn't give consent to it?

i was aware that they'd applied and failed to sort out a loan while i lived there, but i'd been involved in the application process/writing up my info for that particular one etc.. wasn't told that i'd been included on any subsequent applications after i'd moved out.

it seems that they ignored my request to disassociate me from any membership/obligations/general association with the co-op when i left, and thought that what i *actually* meant was 'please! use my info! resubmit your application, and make bits up about me that you think i *might* say! in fact, put it all online and searchable on google, cos i have specifically asked you to *never* do that!'. i'd also imagine that they'd have visualised/done jazz hands with that.

when applying for loans/taking on new members etc they weren't very good at being straight with people about things like access to info about rules and regulations (housemembers) lists of current members (potential lenders), that sort of thing. i would imagine that if they'd applied for the loan with voids, it would've made their business model/projected income a bit wonkier than they were trying to make it out to be.

in short, they'd fuck their dead grandma for loanstock. and forge get her to write an endorsement if they thought it'd make their application likelier to succeed.

 

[sihhi]

i would imagine that if they'd applied for the loan with voids, it would've made their business model/projected income a bit wonkier than they were trying to make it out to be.

Sort of like:-
They couldn't find enough actual people in advance to join their loan-drawing and so they tried to lie their way through. ?

 

[Tom A]

It's what the Irish government calls their campaign to gouge a few shillins out of ex-pats. It has tribaly celticy connotations.

A lot of the people in Radical Routes would approve of the hippyish twang that provides. There's a lot of "getting back to the land" stuff about them, quite a lot are into their organic (and biodynamic - ugh) farming.

 

[tufty79]

Sort of like:-
They couldn't find enough actual people in advance to join their loan-drawing and so they tried to lie their way through. ?

something like that. and apparently they 'didn't think'. they're dead good at that.
personally, my take is that they (i'm referring to my former housemates, their colleagues, comrades, groups they're actively involved in and have dragged me into. mainly the leeds-based idiots, but a couple of oxford/manc/london people too)'re worryingly used to using 'assumed consent' in all their activities - sexual, financial, co-operative-wise, political - and it being 'dealt with within the activist community' (ie someone has a word, gets bought a pint, and it never gets mentioned again. and repeat when it happens again, for a couple of specific individuals)

 

[sihhi]

It's what the Irish government calls their campaign to gouge a few shillins out of ex-pats. It has tribaly celticy connotations.

http://www.thegatheringireland.com/

Not having a go but Irish activists also seem to use it:

No Borders Ireland Gathering

 

[rekil]

Not having a go but Irish activists also seem to use it:

Yes and the "grassroots gathering" stuff.

 

[sihhi]

Yes and the "grassroots gathering" stuff.

That makes more sense because it's far more than one group or org coming together.

This is Britain's EF thing called the Summer Gathering:

But when it happens in winter it's called a Moot

 

[andysays]

i know this is their perception of me/them - i'm the short paragraph that mentions brixton (where i've never worked) see the activism gaps compared to everyone else

View attachment 34159

If only you too could make "awesome sourdough"; maybe then your true value would have been recognised

I think the most significant factor in "activist burnout" can be having to work alongside so many fucking cranks and cultists

 

[DotCommunist]

It's what the Irish government calls their campaign to gouge a few shillins out of ex-pats. It has tribaly celticy connotations.

http://www.thegatheringireland.com/

Official site has "fighting" spirit rather than "entrepreneurial" spirit.

all around me fathers hat

 

[SpineyNorman]

Surely I can't be the only one who doesn't have a clue what radical roots actually is?

I mean no offence to the good people on this thread who've been involved (especially as they both appear to now hold these groups in utter contempt) but it sounds a bit like an anarcho-vegan-liberal yoghurt knitting circle

 

[tufty79]

Surely I can't be the only one who doesn't have a clue what radical roots actually is?

I mean no offence to the good people on this thread who've been involved (especially as they both appear to now hold these groups in utter contempt) but it sounds a bit like an anarcho-vegan-liberal yoghurt knitting circle

they are a 'network of housing and worker co-operatives working for radical social change'.
these are their aims and principles:

Here we are in twenty-first-century Britain, in a world not of our making but one that has been moulded over thousands of years of exploitation and injustice.

Our world is shaped by the forces of greed, capitalism and materialism, where maximum production and optimum profits are vigorously pursued, making life a misery for many and putting us and the environment at risk.

The system is ultimately controlled by the rich and powerful, the capitalists and bureaucrats, through the use of many mechanisms such as ownership of the economy (making people slaves to a job) and control of the media (creating a passive culture).

Radical Routes is a network of co-ops and individuals seeking to change all this.

We want to see a world based on equality and co-operation, where people give according to their ability and receive according to their needs, where work is fullfilling and useful and creativity is encouraged, where decision making is open to everyone with no hierarchies, where the environment is valued and respected in its own right rather than exploited.

We want to take control over all aspects of our lives. However, as we are not all in a position of control we are forced to compromise in order to exist.

We are working towards taking control over our housing, education and work through setting up housing and worker co-ops, and co-operating as a network.

Through gaining collective control over these areas we aim to reduce reliance on exploitative structures and build secure bases from which to challenge the system and encourage others to do so.

Radical Routes has developed from an idea in the mid 80s to a secondary co-op registered in April 1992. In 1986 New Education Housing Co-op was loaned£7,000 by supporters to put down a deposit on a house in Birmingham.

From that housing co-op Radical Routes has grown via staging educational events, the spreading of information, a will to seek likeminded people and investment from supporters into a expanding nationwide network of like-minded co-ops and individuals.

The formation of the secondary co-op provided a structure to pursue our collective aims in a more efficient way, by promoting and raising funds for its member co-ops.

Radical Routes has limited resources and recognises that its particular work towards the above aims are only some of many valid activities.

The specific means it is pursuing are:

• The setting up of housing co-ops to house people and projects with the above aims.
• The setting up of workers co-ops which operate with the above aims.
• The promotion and organisation of participatory education through skills- and knowledge-sharing events, Taking Control events, informative material and workshops.
• The raising of finance to take control over resources (property, technology, land...) through co-operation and economic interlocking of the co-ops.
• The support of like-minded projects.

it might be my eyes, but i don't see 'aims' or 'principles' defined. i do see a lot of 'we want' and 'specific means it is pursuing'.

they basically exist as a co-op of co-ops, with a 'radical' proviso.
financially, they support the co-operative movement by lending loanstock moneys (sourced from radicals, triodos bank, compensation from actions against the police, member co-ops, and interest on the loans they've previously given) to new/still growing/not paid off their mortgage yet co-ops. but only if they're fully paid up members of radical routes - try and get help and assistance otherwise (as i believe carlton mansions did in 2011 - i might be mistaken and mean another collective though. i know that they were based on coldharbour and came to one of the gatherings being desperate, and were told they'd have to wait months until their membership was approved before they would be given any advice, let alone financial assistance) and they'll tell you they can't do anything unless you've been approved by the gathering. and paid up your subs
other ways they support it are by insularity, corruption, and not being quite as fluffy as they make out

part of the terms of your co-op becoming a full member, is that all members of your co-op (with some exceptions, subject to consideration) must do a minimum of 16 hours a week work 'towards radical social change'. there has been fierce debate as to whether this may include paid work, or not activist stuff like teaching etc.

it's not something that i want to ever have to go near again. but i'm more than fine to bitch about them...

i think that c has managed to update *some* bits of the website over the four+ years she's been maintaining it, so maybe use the online enquiry form for more info.
(that's not a swipe at *you* btw).

 

[Tom A]

...and god help you if you want to do a food co-op which isn't vegan or (gasps in horror) does ethically slaughtered meat!

 

[tufty79]

i think that c has managed to update *some* bits of the website over the four years she's been maintaining it, so maybe use the online enquiry form for more info.
(that's not a swipe at *you* btw).

my mistake - it doesn't work
http://www.radicalroutes.org.uk/contact-us-113.html

 

[Tom A]

There has been fierce debate as to whether this may include paid work, or not activist stuff like teaching etc

At the spring 2011 gathering the (coerced?) "consensus" was that teaching was fine and dandy as long as it was some radical initiative but not the state system (although I bet that teaching in a Steiner school would qualify).

 

[J Ed]

...and god help you if you want to do a food co-op which isn't vegan or (gasps in horror) does ethically slaughtered meat!

I don't eat meat but I find the nastiness of some vegetarian and vegan 'progressives' to people who eat meat really embarrassing. They care more about chickens and sheep than people.

 

[frogwoman]

At the spring 2011 gathering the (coerced?) "consensus" was that teaching was fine and dandy as long as it was some radical initiative but not the state system (although I bet that teaching in a Steiner school would qualify).

my old landlady was a great admirer of the steiner school approach

 

[Tom A]

my old landlady was a great admirer of the steiner school approach

I need to do a piece about how the Steiner movement and Anthroposophy has infected significant parts of the environmental movement and fed a problematic mentality. Think the "why the Greens are shit" thread would be a good place to put it.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Not having a go but Irish activists also seem to use it:

It's a sure sign social centre types are involved in a campaign over here. It has a vaguely hippyish connotation.

 

[sihhi]

Surely I can't be the only one who doesn't have a clue what radical roots actually is?

I mean no offence to the good people on this thread who've been involved (especially as they both appear to now hold these groups in utter contempt) but it sounds a bit like an anarcho-vegan-liberal yoghurt knitting circle

I've not been involved at all, but I was told that Radical Roots or some fairtrade groups associated with them received some funding once from the cosmetics firm Lush.

Counselling for Social Change - the organisation above - also received some money from them aswell.

'Counselling for Social Change' has just received funding from cosmetics company, Lush, to provide counselling retreats and phone counselling for activists, carers and campaigners. This work is in addition to their work providing low-cost emotional support across Mid and West Cornwall.

 

[sihhi]

financially, they support the co-operative movement by lending loanstock moneys (sourced from radicals, triodos bank, compensation from actions against the police, member co-ops, and interest on the loans they've previously given) to new/still growing/not paid off their mortgage yet co-ops. but only if they're fully paid up members of radical routes - try and get help and assistance otherwise (as i believe carlton mansions did in 2011 - i might be mistaken and mean another collective though. i know that they were based on coldharbour and came to one of the gatherings being desperate, and were told they'd have to wait months until their membership was approved before they would be given any advice, let alone financial assistance) and they'll tell you they can't do anything unless you've been approved by the gathering. and paid up your subs
other ways they support it are by insularity, corruption, and not being quite as fluffy as they make out

part of the terms of your co-op becoming a full member, is that all members of your co-op (with some exceptions, subject to consideration) must do a minimum of 16 hours a week work 'towards radical social change'. there has been fierce debate as to whether this may include paid work, or not activist stuff like teaching etc.

Is it a sustainable model? It seems to mean drawing people out of struggle elsewhere to concentrate on your cooperative and on deciding what cooperatives are allowed in or not.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I've not been involved at all, but I was told that Radical Roots or some fairtrade groups associated with them received some funding once from the cosmetics firm Lush.

Counselling for Social Change - the organisation above - also received some money from them aswell.

Ah a light bulb has just gone off in my head. There's a Lush shop on fargate in Sheffield and we were doing a bedroom tax stall there (think that's what it was - might have been childrens centres though) and someone came out of the shop and gave us some soap for free. What you've just posted explains why they'd have been sympathetic - I thought it was just a nice way of calling me a scruffy cunt

The soap was weird stuff, a kind of moldy green with what looked like those little black sesame seeds in it. And it made me sneeze so I threw it away

 

[tufty79]

I've not been involved at all, but I was told that Radical Roots or some fairtrade groups associated with them received some funding once from the cosmetics firm Lush.

Counselling for Social Change - the organisation above - also received some money from them aswell.

plane stupid also got a chunk of lush funding a year to two back (don't know if they still do).

i was in the leeds shop t'other week, and they were fundraising for the city's survivor-led-mental-health-crisis-service (they're run by MH survivors, and don't involve mental health teams/CMHT/NHS crisis teams unless you reqeust/it's absolutely essential), who are absolutely brilliant. so yeah, still feel ok about indulging in the odd bubble bar when i'm feeling minted.

Ah a light bulb has just gone off in my head. There's a Lush shop on fargate in Sheffield and we were doing a bedroom tax stall there (think that's what it was - might have been childrens centres though) and someone came out of the shop and gave us some soap for free. What you've just posted explains why they'd have been sympathetic - I thought it was just a nice way of calling me a scruffy cunt

The soap was weird stuff, a kind of moldy green with what looked like those little black sesame seeds in it. And it made me sneeze so I threw it away

they donated stuff to occupy leeds as well
and no dash for gas

 

[tufty79]

Is it a sustainable model? It seems to mean drawing people out of struggle elsewhere to concentrate on your cooperative and on deciding what cooperatives are allowed in or not.

seems to be more than successful, in their opinion

 

[sihhi]

So first radical artist Molly Crabapple posts this:

In case anyone didn't see it, I just got back from covering #GTMO for @VICE. Giant essay soon.

And then two tweets later just out of nowhere posts this question:

Is there anyone on my twitter feed who spent time in Afghanistan in the late 90's/early 2000's pre 9/11? Want to talk to you about stuffs

 

[J Ed]

http://internationalsocialistnetwor...ysis/151-brenna-bhandar-race-gender-and-class

First theoretical piece I've read on intersectionality from people in favour of it. May be of interest.