The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The aspiration for votes for women was progressive. Not all of the suffragettes were though, some were bitterly anti trade union and most backed the war.
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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The aspiration for votes for women was progressive. Not all of the suffragettes were though, some were bitterly anti trade union and most backed the war.
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wobbly
I've been told their reasoning was similar to John Redmond. prove they could be trusted, then they would get their wish.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
AFAIK, there doesn't seem to have been much reasoning at all behind Redmond's decision to back the war. The account I read has him promising the volunteers to the war effort at a mass meeting where he was speaking off the top of his head, without prior consultation or argument with the Home rule MPs or anyone else.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think you're better off going straight to the many books Christopher Hill wrote on them - and for the more barmy end of the scale Thompsons' Witness Against the Beast: William Blake and the Moral Law has masses and masses of info. The very young (about 12 i'd guess) great granddaughter of the last Muggletonian was at the re-enactment of the Fifth Monarchist/Venner's Rising in january, holding a pike and screaming heads on pikes and charging St Pauls
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Does she look like Arya Stark?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bit of a misreading there norm. Not being funny but you need to understand the political tradition Dauve is coming from - and it's one that largely came out of the violence surrounding the councils in the early 20s. The argument in that short extract is simply one that says without the social conditions for revolution existing then the defences against or attacks on the latter type of violence reinstate the old specialisations of bourgeois society and the political parties appropriating the struggles for the class and pursuing their own ends and thereby undermining precisely the social conditions required to win. The wider piece discusses how this happened in the 20th centuries great events and is well worth the read. As is almost all of his stuff.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/quiz/2013/jun/05/check-your-privilege-quiz
Privilege checking now getting its own almost but not quite humorous quiz in the Guardian. That they think it worthwhile to publish this drivel is an indication that at least in the world of Guardian journalists and editorial staff there's an assumption that quite a few people know what it is.
There also seems to be quite a strong concern amongst mainstream liberals to police the boundaries of their liberalism against the more radical liberalism of privilege politics. So what's getting published about intersectionality/privilege consists of (a) people putting it forward, (b) people opposing it from a more moderate position within the liberal spectrum and (c) some easy right wing ridicule. That's actually quite problematic from the point of view of a left wing critic of this stuff. Criticism from the right risks making it seem more radical and attractive than it is.
Privilege checking now getting its own almost but not quite humorous quiz in the Guardian. That they think it worthwhile to publish this drivel is an indication that at least in the world of Guardian journalists and editorial staff there's an assumption that quite a few people know what it is.
There also seems to be quite a strong concern amongst mainstream liberals to police the boundaries of their liberalism against the more radical liberalism of privilege politics. So what's getting published about intersectionality/privilege consists of (a) people putting it forward, (b) people opposing it from a more moderate position within the liberal spectrum and (c) some easy right wing ridicule. That's actually quite problematic from the point of view of a left wing critic of this stuff. Criticism from the right risks making it seem more radical and attractive than it is.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That bubble can feel it breathing down their necks - young people form w/c backgrounds etc threatening their positions because they've been achieved through privilege and they have chosen to transmit that same privilege unto the next generation. It's like some crazed meritocracy is attempting to bring down their horrible little world.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Uh-huh. Maybe drilling with pikes should make a comeback. I had to do a bit in school for a play the headmaster had written about 1798.
If you have to ask, you'll never know.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
You're suggesting that scribblers should actually earn their way into a cushy number and not based on what school they went to or who they had lunch with last week?
HERESY!
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The Guardian quiz has attracted the usual level of twitter moaning. I keep being surprised when it shows up in my feed from people who I forgot I was following, or why, rather than it coming from the usual suspects.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
File under (c) easy right wing ridicule.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Fair enough - guess I'd have to read the whole thing to really get it. I think my misreading was because it seemed to be being quoted as an argument against the idea that revolutions are violent - when from what you're saying it looks like his point was that there's a lot more to revolutions than violence (ie. that more fundamental social processes are create the conditions for successful revolution and that any violence must be a part of this process rather than some socially detached insurrection or something) which is a very different thing and didn't ought to be controversial at all IMO.
Which is pretty much what I said, and quite clearly what Dauve meant...
Delroy picked up on something dumb Penny said ages ago, that we can't have 'nice things like a revolution' because we're bickering on here. It was a silly thing to say, but it clearly wasn't serious and didn't require any nitpicking - there's a lot more to criticise Penny for. I was simply pointing out that counterposing Penny's 'nice revolution' to the sectarian civil war in Syria, as proof revolution isn't 'nice' is a pretty shite argument against an inconsequential throw-away comment.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
That will be absolutely unbearable.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Which is pretty much what I said, and quite clearly what Dauve meant...
Yes - you got the wrong end of the stick with regards to what Delroy was saying, which led to me getting the wrong end of the stick with regards to the point you were making and what Dauve was saying in that quote. That's why I said seemed to be. It's ok, it happens - don't take it personally.
Don't think I agree. It may have been light hearted and tapping into some internet meme or something but it does I think illustrate the way she sees these things. Rather than being messy, dangerous and not to be taken lightly they're exciting, trendy, edgy, sexy, 'nice'. It's a theme that runs through everything she writes and that throwaway remark can be read as a distillation of her world view.
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
125 out of a possible 150
Sickeningly privileged; pay someone to check it for you.
Sweet!
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
tim dowling appears to be about as funny as AIDS
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
One of the things that might just be sufficient to raise her in my estimations is if she fucked off to Syria to do some proper reporting. You know, having to make links with people on the ground, build relationships with people very different from her and possibly even put herself at genuine risk; all those things she's never done in her entire life.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
didn't fancy a nicking at occupy NY, so the likelihood of her doing reportage from an actual shooting war is 0%
I wouldn't either. But my job is not 'Voice of a Generation'
I wouldn't either. But my job is not 'Voice of a Generation'
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Her friend did. She even managed to 'monetise' it.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
that would explain why Julie Bindel has been reposting the thing where Penny has told massive lies about interiewing her, what she said, and what she meant. I wish they'd just have a fist-fight and sort it out.
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