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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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what it means is that you don't know if someone has suffered from sexual violence or not so lay of the rape jokes / rapey behaviour etc as "well i didn't know" won't be accepted as an excuse.

i have written safer spaces policies before :D

fair enough, there's nothing wrong with that.

although people just shouldnt fucking do it anyway and if they do they should be kicked out.
 
I can feel the future at my back and my white tears rolling under the fridge :(


Also how similar is all this intersectionality stuff to racism awareness seminars for skin-colour white people? (I know does Fuad Siniora count when he's in France etc etc?):


White Awareness: Handbook for Anti-racism Training said:
Color also continues to be an issue in terms of our organizational and societal structures. It still plays a key role in one's ability to make it in the system and is a more prevalent factor than one's ethnic background or abilities. People can often hide their ethnic identities but not usually their racial identities. This reality must be examined in the group.
A second dynamic in the group may be the denial of responsibility for racism: "I'm not responsible for what my ancestors did." This altitude should be explored in terms of the privileges whites have because of the racist nature of the system and in terms of the fact that whites maintain, support, and perpetuate the system. Although they are not responsible for the historical aspects of racism, the historical dimensions are still playing out today—in the criminal justice system, the educational system, the health care system, and so on.

Another part of Stage 5 explores one's individual racism through one's attitudes and behaviors and tries to uncover inconsistencies in them. Your role here is to help participants honestly discuss their real values, assumptions, and attitudes as well as understand the reasons why an attitude or a behavior may be racist.

...
You must help participants to work through these feelings, not support people getting blocked from owning their whiteness, and get to a deeper understanding of themselves as white people in a white racist system. Guilt prevents people from moving forward and taking action. Participants must understand that their guilt alone benefits no one. It is important that they feel some internal conflict and responsibility, and these valid feelings should be supported.
 
also, while it might seem wanky and that a general "Don't Be A Dick" rule should be applied, our experience is that unless you expressively write a list of Proscribed Dick Moves people won't agree on what behaviour constitutes Being A Massive Fucking Nob End and it becomes impossible to evict arseholes. Lefty communities too often are too forgiving of bad behaviour.

Or too wet to do anything about the culprits..
 
fair enough, there's nothing wrong with that.

although people just shouldnt fucking do it anyway and if they do they should be kicked out.

yes, i agree. safer spaces policies shouldn't be needed but, if my experience of communities such as the M11 Link Road protests and Occupy are anything to go by, or indeed anarchist groups, they are :(
 
fair enough, there's nothing wrong with that.

although people just shouldnt fucking do it anyway and if they do they should be kicked out.
But that's what's actually happening, they get turfed out. And if they don't, someone on twitter will say something like whatever happened to fucking safer spaces, we know that bloke's a wrong un, why wasn't he ejected? Cos by and large, they do get ejected if people know about them which is what encouraging people to talk about it does. Not try and sweep it under the carpet cf comrade delta.
 
That was lost on the old laptop when i was mugged - might be a copy on the matb archives.

:( Bloody hell, sorry to hear it.

Remember this though calling out people is hard and people might need a calling out chill out tent to take a break in:

tumblr_mfeama9BV81qgpjfvo1_1280.jpg
 
yes, i agree. safer spaces policies shouldn't be needed but, if my experience of communities such as the M11 Link Road protests and Occupy are anything to go by, or indeed anarchist groups, they are :(
But this goes back to keeping everyone alert and setting up safeguards as far as possible.
 
yes, i agree. safer spaces policies shouldn't be needed but, if my experience of communities such as the M11 Link Road protests and Occupy are anything to go by, or indeed anarchist groups, they are :(

What do you make of people in pink armbands doing/helping keeping these policies in line?
 
But that's what's actually happening, they get turfed out. And if they don't, someone on twitter will say something like whatever happened to fucking safer spaces, we know that bloke's a wrong un, why wasn't he ejected? Cos by and large, they do get ejected if people know about them which is what encouraging people to talk about it does. Not try and sweep it under the carpet cf comrade delta.
Exactly TALK ABOUT IT not say to people don't talk about it unless you know everyone's status.
 
"calling out" - what is this called in real life? Being challenged? Argued with? Debate? Argument, scrap, fight, punch up, break some blokes nose

Technical terms for normal interactions - are you in a cult? A collective?

It doesn't really matter - oppressive sentences are probably as bad as broken noses - as this quote by black liberation activist Toni Morrison liked over 6000 times proves:

Oppressive language does more than represent violence; it is violence.

http://stfu-moffat.tumblr.com/post/46677844294/oppressive-language-does-more-than-represent
 
i dread to think about that "someone saying ew your white isn't racist" cunt or that "jews aren't oppressed because they control the media and have all the best jobs and institutional privileges" cunt deals with their ability to "call people out" and the privilege and power they have in that setting and how that gets abused. Or For that matter think about this. Somebody is raped or sexually assaulted and then told by the person that did it that they won't be believed and not to talk about rape when there's other people in the room. Anyway they are less oppressed and don't think about other people's experiences sensitively etc.

you can see how this shit works.
 
Take care out there in them private liberal arts colleges people, it's tough out there. And remember - you own all these issues

Given that this broadly makes sense - ie men should challenge sexism wherever they are and not seek acceptance into feminist fora, will the same be applied to middle-class people?

tumblr_mk9w0jjL3M1qztkl8o1_400.png


Will middle-class activist people take the space they have in society & make it working-class?
 
"it was not rape, you weren't really raped think about how (insert x group here) is oppressed every day, and if you mention it to anyone you're being insensitive" etc.

or am i being over the top?
 
What about men who don't want to be feminists? i.e me. What do i need to do - what do you need to do Kelly?

The space they have in society - again, needs unpacking - and there is loads there isn't there?
 
"it was not rape, you weren't really raped think about how (insert x group here) is oppressed every day, and if you mention it to anyone you're being insensitive" etc.

or am i being over the top?
Depends how/who you're saying to! It does 'call out' the projected inverted and weaponised Tu Quoque of much of this approach though.
 
What about men who don't want to be feminists? i.e me. What do i need to do - what do you need to do Kelly?

The space they have in society - again, needs unpacking - and there is loads there isn't there?

That's the NUS's chief women's officer by the way - she is already doing it, check male privilege etc.

If you want to help amplify the struggle she has tweeted this

We're looking for a Campaigns and Communications Assistant in Team Liberation.

A job for £23k in London:


NUS are looking for a proactive, confident and persuasive communicator to join the Political Strategy Unit. The role of Campaigns and Communications Assistant (Liberation) will require the post holder to work with staff and elected officers to promote the work of NUS National Liberation Campaigns and local Liberation Campaigns within member students’ unions in further and higher education.
... The role demands an articulate and enthusiastic individual who is self-motivated and passionate about communications and Liberation. Applicants will also be assessed on their ability to put together a working communications plan and their ability to absorb information and re-present it as concise and attractive communication.
 
Wow.

I can put them in touch with some irish-types. Would that help my application?

Only if you are originally from Gaeltacht and speak Irish as a matter of course, anything else would be cultural appropriation, you're still white remember, from the same racism awareness training volume:

One trap to be wary of is the reversion of some participants to their ethnic identities. Many people deny their whiteness by saying that their culture was derived only from their ethnic identity. Although clearly that is a part of one's cultural identity and heritage, in the United States we cannot ignore the role that racial identity has played. Many white immigrants have suffered discrimination, it is true, but because of their color, they and their families have ultimately been accepted. People of color, such as African Americans. Native Americans, Latinas and Latinos, and Asian Americans, on the other hand, have been discriminated against
 
Accept your whiteness, Sinn Fein. Even tho you have been discriminated against you and your families have ultimately been accepted.
 
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