Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Trealover]

Mime and dance.

Seems it'd have to be.

TEFL seemed to me to be largely a scam for eternal youngsters who can't hold down normal jobs or think they're on an adventure.

 

[DotCommunist]

your fake nose and glasses just fell off

 

[weepiper]

I am uncomfortably reminded of Lord Freud and his 'the poor should take the most risks because they have the least to lose' schtick.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/359910/Freud-Poor-should-take-more-risks

The middle classes go on gap years 'for charity'. Working class kids join the army, and it's not usually because they fancy an adventure.

 

[Trealover]

your fake nose and glasses just fell off

As ever, I wasn't wearing any.

 

[DotCommunist]

I am uncomfortably reminded of Lord Freud and his 'the poor should take the most risks because they have the least to lose' schtick.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/359910/Freud-Poor-should-take-more-risks

The middle classes go on gap years 'for charity'. Working class kids join the army, and it's not usually because they fancy an adventure.

economic conscription ennit- they are quite shameless about advertising along those lines

 

[Trealover]

I am uncomfortably reminded of Lord Freud and his 'the poor should take the most risks because they have the least to lose' schtick.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/359910/Freud-Poor-should-take-more-risks

The middle classes go on gap years 'for charity'. Working class kids join the army, and it's not usually because they fancy an adventure.

Nobody with any sense would join the army now. Go and get shot at for a measly few fucking grand a year.

 

[DotCommunist]

Nobody with any sense would join the army now. Go and get shot at for a measly few fucking grand a year.

live fire training though

 

[Trealover]

live fire training though

Yes-for shooting the likes of you. And me.

 

[rekil]

...I rather enjoy being told I'm pretty. It's just that I prefer class war.

Class war smarts.

 

[J Ed]

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/333562680491266050

This says a lot about both of them, I think, but particularly O'Neill. Who the fuck lets interns buy coffee for them?

 

[_angel_]

How can you teach something without being able to explain what you're doing in the language that the rest of the class speaks?

I spoke more Polish than this girl and I was shit. I wouldn't have even considered trying to teach a Pole English.

I don't know how it works at all.

 

[weepiper]

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/333562680491266050

This says a lot about both of them, I think, but particularly O'Neill. Who the fuck lets interns buy coffee for them?

Who the fuck can afford to work unpaid aged 20 for the promise of jam (or a successful writing career interspersed with paid after dinner speeches) tomorrow? Oh yeah, not me, because I'm not like them.

 

[DotCommunist]

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/333562680491266050

This says a lot about both of them, I think, but particularly O'Neill. Who the fuck lets interns buy coffee for them?

I give you my fucking coffee and you just rip the piss? Name and number

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sorry, no. I've heard this "all you need is a bit of initiative/hard work/etc" before. Didn't buy it at school, not buying it from the government, definitely not buying it from you.

Phil has to have that perspective. It validates him.

 

[Trealover]

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/333562680491266050

This says a lot about both of them, I think, but particularly O'Neill. Who the fuck lets interns buy coffee for them?

If I'd had an intern, I'd make him buy the coffee. Complacent little shit.

 

[J Ed]

I wonder if the interns at the New Statesman have to buy the coffee

 

[Trealover]

I don't know how it works at all.

I think you have to rely on the pupils knowing almost as much English as you, but try to fool them into believing that you know what you're talking about.

 

[Trealover]

I wonder if the interns at the New Statesman have to buy the coffee

Hope so.

 

[J Ed]

I think you have to rely on the pupils knowing almost as much English as you, but try to fool them into believing that you know what you're talking about.

That really isn't that uncommon or odd in language lessons, in fact it's preferable.

 

[Trealover]

That really isn't that uncommon or odd in language lessons, in fact it's preferable.

Yes, preferable for those who can't be arsed learning the language of those they're teaching.

 

[Favelado]

I know about 6 people who have done a TEFL. Four of them are now alcoholics (they even admit it) and one of them is now a lecturer at a university teaching Modern English Literature - well jealous (of her, not the alcoholics obviously). I think you need to have right charachter to stick it out without succumbing to cheap alcohol and loneliness.

Jesus. It's not that bleak! I don't know how you end up lonely doing it. It must depend on the country.

 

[Favelado]

Yes, preferable for those who can't be arsed learning the language of those they're teaching.

It's often preferable not to allow any use of their language in the classroom. It becomes a problem, not a help.

 

[Trealover]

It's often preferable not to allow any use of their language in the classroom. It becomes a problem, not a help.

Yes, especially when you don't understand what's going on.

 

[Favelado]

I met somebody earning a living doing TEFL in immediate post-Communist Poland. She hardly spoke a word of Polish. How does that work?

That's the point of TEFL courses. You don't always know where you're going beforehand, so you have to be able to teach without knowing their language. You can give a perfectly good class without ever using the learner's native language. In fact, the first day of my TEFL I was given a Polish lesson, with no English used, to demonstrate how it can be done. Poland was not part of my plans and it could have been any other language.

 

[Favelado]

Yes, especially when you don't understand what's going on.

This is why you do the course. You know what's going on because you're the teacher and you've organised everything appropriately. Or you can deal with such difficult moments in a way that they don't become a big deal.

 

[Trealover]

This is why you do the course. You know what's going on because you're the teacher and you've organised everything appropriately. Or you can deal with such difficult moments in a way that they don't become a big deal.

I don't know what I'm arguing for really. Normally I never think about TEFL and don't care one way or another.

 

[Favelado]

I don't know what I'm arguing for really. Normally I never think about TEFL and don't care one way or another.

Thanks for coming!

 

[_angel_]

Yes, especially when you don't understand what's going on.

I guess that's the "immersion" technique.
Usually I think it helps to know a bit of the language already before going down that route.

 

[ViolentPanda]

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/333562680491266050

This says a lot about both of them, I think, but particularly O'Neill. Who the fuck lets interns buy coffee for them?

TBF, if Owen Jones thinks Slug O'Neill is "one of the worst people on earth", he's shockingly fucking naive. O'Neill is a cunt, but he's hardly up there with the Assad dynasty, for example!

 

[Trealover]

I guess that's the "immersion" technique.
Usually I think it helps to know a bit of the language already before going down that route.

Whatever anybody says, it seems strange to be teaching English to Poles in Poland and yet you can't even ask for a pint of milk in a Polish shop (or sklep, as they say over there.)