Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[treelover]

If they're lucky. Even outliers and places that haven't formerly been given a second glance to, such as "new" Marzahn, are being gentrified/put out of the price range of w/c Berliners. Most of what was West Berlin, and the more central sections of what was East Berlin are already beyond ordinary affordability. My favourite bit of Berlin (Moabit - no fancy coffee shops, think Balham 30 years ago) has already seen rents almost double over the last 10 years.

Blimey, I was in Marzahn, a few years ago, the big Stasi base/now museum is there, urban jungle, lots of neo-nazis as well, didn't think it could be gentrified..

 

[treelover]

Casualty of industrialisation

Only in the west, still masses made globally..

 

[love detective]

Are you saying they are also national newspaper columnists?

I've no idea who they are, you are the person who brought them up

I have had phone calls making those threats. Mostly from American accents, thank fuck. Several a day for a week or two, occasionals for months after. One PC killed stone dead, one university network downed for three days by spam porn.

And that was for being in the paper for a week or two.

Sorry to hear you have received such threats and harassment

You might want to stop defending your position and start wondering whether it is at all defensible.

I'm more than happy to continue to defend my position though

i'm not saying she must be lying about this because she lies about other stuff, i'm saying she is lying about this because she has lied about it.

I and many others on here (including many females) have been falsely accused of giving her sexist/misogynistic abuse when all they have done is criticised her politics, her method and what she represents

By her own admission she counts this as part of the sum total of sexist/misogynistic abuse that she gets

My position is that she is lying about the level/frequency of sexist/misogynistic abuse that she gets and exaggerating the level/frequency of it. My evidence to support this is the huge amount of criticism that she has received on here (and from posters on here on twitter) which she disingenuously catalogues as being sexist & misogynistic abuse

You've already admitted in an earlier post though that:-

It has nothing to do with the truth or who might be lying

So there it is

 

[cesare]

Only in the west, still masses made globally..

I expect there are masses of handmade candlesticks made globally. I suspect the global number of industrially produced candlesticks is more though.

 

[Nylock]

even so i dont find it plausible, although if it includes people she's in regular contact with its a bit different, but the impression given is that these are separate unsolicited emails

thats a fuck of a lot, just on one very specific subject for someone who in the general scheme of things is pretty obscure, i might buy that cheryl cole or wayne rooney gets that number of emails asking for advice every week, but not laurie penny

3-4 emails a week = 150-200 emails a year. For someone, anyone, with LP's following, 'lecture'* schedule, travel itinerary and profile that's hardly breaking the fabric of reality... As others have said here there's plenty of provable exaggeration that LP's used in her articles and to focus on disputing something that is, in all probability, factually correct is a bit of an odd direction to take tbh...


*not the right word for it but that sort of thing....

 

[smokedout]

Are you leading up to "so therefore we should all ignore her cos she's not worth paying attention to"?

no, not at all, I've never said that, I think her and the bubble she operates in should come under scrutiny, for the reasons given in this thread many times

but she's not a national newspaper columnist, she write for an obscure left wing publication with a small subscription and occasionally goes on television shows no-one watches. shes not even that big on twitter (in her field), which is where she's highest profile, caitlin moran has 400,000 followers, nearly ten time what laurie has

for her to get 3 or 4 emails a week asking for advice on how to be a blogger must mean she gets an astonishing amount of unsolicited email, because shes far more likely to be contacted by people saying hello, asking her to write about stuff or people with a story/some information. I find it pretty hard to believe on that basis.

 

[cesare]

no, not at all, I've never said that, I think her and the bubble she operates in should come under scrutiny, for the reasons given in this thread many times

but she's not a national newspaper columnist, she write for an obscure left wing publication with a small subscription and occasionally goes on television shows no-one watches. shes not even that big on twitter (in her field), which is where she's highest profile, caitlin moran has 400,000 followers, nearly ten time what laurie has

for her to get 3 or 4 emails a week asking for advice on how to be a blogger must mean she gets an astonishing amount of unsolicited email, because shes far more likely to be contacted by people saying hello, asking her to write about stuff or people with a story/some information. I find it pretty hard to believe on that basis.

No, I never said that you'd said it ("are we leading up to ...?") - I'm just wondering where we're going with this and why.

 

[phildwyer]

really? that doesn't make a lot of sense. but then, once you're willing to believe a holy book any weirdness is possible.

Whare are you on about now? What Holy Book do you belıeve forbıds the wearıng of a tıe?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Blimey, I was in Marzahn, a few years ago, the big Stasi base/now museum is there, urban jungle, lots of neo-nazis as well, didn't think it could be gentrified..

You'd be amazed what a bit of landscaping and cladding can do. Bear in mind their are decades-worth of situational crime-prevention measures that get deployed when communities like Marzahn see the developers arrive. It's not beyond the wit of man to alter opportunity enough that anti-social elements, neo-nazis or otherwise, don't feel like loitering, even if they actually live there.

 

[smokedout]

No, I never said that you'd said it ("are we leading up to ...?") - I'm just wondering where we're going with this and why.

because shes using this to set herself up as an expert on blogging, claiming she gets contacted by hundreds of people asking her about the very subject that she happens to have been asked to talk about, which is her advice as a blogger when she isnt a blogger

 

[cesare]

because shes using this to set herself up as an expert on blogging, claiming she gets contacted by hundreds of people asking her about the very subject that she happens to have been asked to talk about, which is her advice as a blogger when she isnt a blogger

I'm not a fan of the content of her blog, but it's packed full of the latest fucking inanities from her: http://www.penny-red.com/

 

[el-ahrairah]

Whare are you on about now? What Holy Book do you belıeve forbıds the wearıng of a tıe?

don't be deliberately obtuse, it's unbecoming of a grown man.

 

[smokedout]

I'm not a fan of the content of her blog, but it's packed full of the latest fucking inanities from her: http://www.penny-red.com/

she posts up pictures of herself, and occasionally uses it for a piece she presumably cant flog (as all journos do), but its been four months since she even did that. Id be suprised if her site currently gets more than 3 to 400 unique visitors a day and quite possibly less, even when she was active as a blogger, before the student protests and anyone had heard of her, she was never one of the biggest blogs

 

[cesare]

she posts up pictures of herself, and occasionally uses it for a piece she presumably cant flog (as all journos do), but its been four months since she even did that. Id be suprised if her site currently gets more than 3 to 400 unique visitors a day and quite possibly less, even when she was active as a blogger, before the student protests and anyone had heard of her, she was never one of the biggest blogs

But so what? It's all a means to an end for her. This is like stopping at the underdeveloped sapling at the fringes of a wood and shaking your fist at it.

 

[muscovyduck]

I'll accept that I am in mightily pissed off mood and end my part in this bunfight but ...

I see absolutely no reason to make it a one week campaign. It should be the norm. If it was the norm then assault would not be the norm.

Given that most men who do commit a serious sexual assault do so only once in their lives, and only 1-2% commit many at all, I think almost all of them would be intelligent enough to keep their hands and pricks to themselves for a week or two, whilst switching to the delightful sort of verbal abuse which I find so much easier to handle.

I'd rather they stuck close enough to get a knee in the groin and I don't think we should give them prior warning of a temporary state of affairs where we will actually report them, but then stop if they promise to be nice.

I think the report and prosecute all assaults thing has to happen, but I also think it is important to ask the men in our lives to be a little sensitive to the fact that we are at significant danger from a substantial minority of men and they have a responsibility not to make that worse by accidentally giving the impression to some of these fucked up (and usually very immature, often teenage) men that it is socially acceptable to bait women, and to try to avoid caling them liars when the subject is whether or not they are experiencing excessively violent misogynistic attention of any kind at all.

Yes it should be the norm but it'll take a lot more convincing to get women to waste so much time going to the police on a long term basis. That would fade out over time, even if it was successful. The idea would be that the campaign highlights how much we put up with that we shouldn't have to.

A lot of people don't even know what dos and doesn't count as rape and sexual assault. They're too wrapped up in LAD culture to bother caring. Most of them wouldn't even notice it as a campaign. I doubt most of them read much news. It wouldn't be a case of 'stopping if they promise to be nice', it be something to build on to further the campaign. That would not be the end of it but it's a useful focus/rallying point.

I agree with the last paragraph. The question is: How? Usually drip-feeding them feminist ideas over time sorts it out to an extent. Once enough people in a social groups aren't happy with an attitude, whoever's voicing the opinions shuts up. Mainly because people making misogynistic comments are usually the type who are looking for acceptance and popularity in their male friendship group, while wanting to appear shagworthy by the women.

 

[muscovyduck]

and why would people ask her advice on being a blogger or social activist, given that she's neither - shes a journalist for an obscure left wing mag with a blog she's very rarely updated since around 2009

She appears to be one. She also interacts with her fan base. On the face of it, she's a hardworking, friendly woman who is really passionate about her work. Half a year or so ago I might have done the same, and looked to her for advice.

Obviously, I'm not rich so it's just another career which is closed to me.

 

[ymu]

OK. Let's get the thread back on track.

Seumas Milne, public school and Oxbridge twat, naive anti-imperialist polemics via a column in the Guardian. Perfectly at home on this thread.

Caught here acting as propagandist and anti-imperialist cheerleader for Julian Assange in only slightly more coherent fashion than Glenn fucking Greenwald. And misreporting the legal process after it had been clarified fully by many legal bloggers.

Like Jones, at the higher end of the quality scale when it comes to political perspective. But I asked him to correct the article in that link three times and he refused twice before ending the conversation and that is shoddy fucking journalism. He's a Hari who can be arsed to do some homework.

 

[smokedout]

But so what? It's all a means to an end for her. This is like stopping at the underdeveloped sapling at the fringes of a wood and shaking your fist at it.

I'm basically building up to pointing out that my blog probably has a higher readership than laurie pennys new statesman column and website combined, around 5000 page views a day over the last few months which ive never actually told anyone before and sort of wanted to.

*and i get fuck all emails, abusive or otherwise, now given whats been said fair enough, ive probably understated the misogyny problem, which i thought was serious, but i wouldnt have guessed that female bloggers/online writers get about 1000 times more abusive emails than male bloggers with comparable readerships - but i find it hard to believe that laurie penny also gets a similar amount more emails asking for advice etc when ive never had one. i get maybe 10 unsolicited messages a week if you include facebook, i recently took my email address off my blog for a while to slow it down because most of them were questions about peoples benefits and i dont have time to do that justice, so it used to be slightly more, but she must get hundreds if what she says is true, I dont know of anyone other sites with similar readership getting that kind of feedback on email, in fact it flies in the face of everything i know about running political sites.

maybe im wrong and an occasional newsnight gig and commentisfree piece vastly bumps up her feedback, but from the traffic i know the new statesman gets, the number of comments, retweets etc her column gets etc, this isnt reflected in that

 

[muscovyduck]

maybe im wrong and an occasional newsnight gig and commentisfree piece vastly bumps up her feedback, but from the traffic i know the new statesman gets, the number of comments, retweets etc her column gets etc, this isnt reflected in that

I'd guess it does. Also we're not taking into account her twitter feed.

 

[frogwoman]

OK. Let's get the thread back on track.

Seumas Milne, public school and Oxbridge twat, naive anti-imperialist polemics via a column in the Guardian. Perfectly at home on this thread.

Caught here acting as propagandist and anti-imperialist cheerleader for Julian Assange in only slightly more coherent fashion than Glenn fucking Greenwald. And misreporting the legal process after it had been clarified fully by many legal bloggers.

Like Jones, at the higher end of the quality scale when it comes to political perspective. But I asked him to correct the article in that link three times and he refused twice before ending the conversation and that is shoddy fucking journalism. He's a Hari who can be arsed to do some homework.

that's a shame, i always used to think seumas milne was all right, could be completely wrong tho

 

[smokedout]

I'd guess it does. Also we're not taking into account her twitter feed.

I am, id imagine she gets most feedback via twitter, her email address isnt that easy to find - well its not hard, but its not on her columns etc

I just wonder why this huge amount of feedback doesnt impact on her readership figures, which are probably in fairness about the same as mine (but a bit less)

 

[cesare]

I am, id imagine she gets most feedback via twitter, her email address isnt that easy to find - well its not hard, but its not on her columns etc

I just wonder why this huge amount of feedback doesnt impact on her readership figures, which are probably in fairness about the same as mine (but a bit less)

Her email address is on the contact details of her website and she regularly gives it out on her twitter feed

 

[killer b]

i think there is a difference between the type of journalism (cough) penny does and the type of journalism smokedout does too, which could account to some difference - essentially smokedout writes news stories (albeit with a very specific slant), whereas penny conducts a conversation with her readership - which would invite substantially more feedback. enough to make such a substantial difference, i dunno. but worth considering.

 

[smokedout]

yeah i know, not saying its invisible, but for most people they would come across her and so very likely contact her on twitter, especially kids, they dont even know what email is most of em

 

[muscovyduck]

I am, id imagine she gets most feedback via twitter, her email address isnt that easy to find - well its not hard, but its not on her columns etc

I just wonder why this huge amount of feedback doesnt impact on her readership figures, which are probably in fairness about the same as mine (but a bit less)

Different audiences. Laurie Penny's going for the young, hip, radical, 'opinion-makers'. The type of people who read that sorry excuse for a newspaper. I imagine you concentrate more on your content, whereas Laurie focuses on her brand. It's the whole building a house on sand/stone parable, only without the happy ending.

 

[ymu]

I'm basically building up to pointing out that my blog probably has a higher readership than laurie pennys new statesman column and website combined, around 5000 page views a day over the last few months which ive never actually told anyone before and sort of wanted to.

*and i get fuck all emails, abusive or otherwise, now given whats been said fair enough, ive probably understated the misogyny problem, which i thought was serious, but i wouldnt have guessed that female bloggers/online writers get about 1000 times more abusive emails than male bloggers with comparable readerships - but i find it hard to believe that laurie penny also gets a similar amount more emails asking for advice etc when ive never had one. i get maybe 10 unsolicited messages a week if you include facebook, i recently took my email address off my blog for a while to slow it down because most of them were questions about peoples benefits and i dont have time to do that justice, so it used to be slightly more, but she must get hundreds if what she says is true, I dont know of anyone other sites with similar readership getting that kind of feedback on email, in fact it flies in the face of everything i know about running political sites.

maybe im wrong and an occasional newsnight gig and commentisfree piece vastly bumps up her feedback, but from the traffic i know the new statesman gets, the number of comments, retweets etc her column gets etc, this isnt reflected in that

You're including the stuff on Guido's site, right? I'd imagine Harry's Place would be pretty grim too.

Have you compared notes with suey2y and Bendy Girl? Per reader/view count? They're highly comparable to you, although less political in perspective.

 

[smokedout]

whereas penny conducts a conversation with her readership - which would invite substantially more feedback. enough to make such a substantial difference, i dunno. but worth considering.

that did occur to me and as much effort as she puts into promoting herself i probably put into trying to hide, but i know details of other websites, campaigns etc and have been involved in other websites, and thats still a huge amount of feedback compared to her readership numbers

 

[cesare]

Also there are no rules for what blogs look like or consist of. They don't have to be well researched and lengthy in order to draw attention and/or create an impression that is consistent with paid articles, networking and a twitter feed. She is marketing herself as a brand not as a blogger.

 

[smokedout]

You're including the stuff on Guido's site, right? I'd imagine Harry's Place would be pretty grim too.

Have you compared notes with suey2y and Bendy Girl? Per reader/view count? They're highly comparable to you, although less political in perspective.

id guess they both probably get similar traffic, its a bit difficult to ask another blogger about their traffic out of the blue without sounding a dick to be honest

 

[smokedout]

Also there are no rules for what blogs look like or consist of.

well there should be