Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think one of the problems is that big ideas don't work. It's the gap between what is actually do-able and the fantasy of the big idea that gets filled with such things as checking one's privilege.

true to an extent but the fact of left wing counter culture attracting wankers like moths to a flame cant be overlooked either . Theres absolutely no rational excuse for that stuff emanating from grown adults with half a brain and its primary political effect is to actively alienate the broad mass of working people, many of whom i believe may well have been initially sympathetic . If there was an actual physical class war going on it could only be considered as active treason . I dont mean that in any jokey or hyperbolic sense either .
I can only speak for myself as someone whod be very sympathetic and very happy to see something like occupy go somewhere, but i would immediately withdraw from any project that started incorporating this utter rubbish into its structures . And i suspect a great many ordinary workers who dont subscribe to these counter cultures would too . This has the appearance of a bunch of cranks spotting a political vaccuum which they saw as an opportunity to propagate their ballsology and as soon as they did the vaccuum collapsed and they disappeared up their own backsides . And thats what theyll continue to do ad infinitum unless forces on the left challenge them and tell them to check their utter bullshit
 
well, i think the big idea involved in occupy was
1. camp out.
2. check privilege
3. government hands over control to occupiers and world becomes better.

In some ways it seemed almost like a DIY version of the colour revolutions, only without a CIA or State Department to back it.

true to an extent but the fact of left wing counter culture attracting wankers like moths to a flame cant be overlooked either . Theres absolutely no rational excuse for that stuff emanating from grown adults with half a brain and its primary political effect is to actively alienate the broad mass of working people, many of whom i believe may well have been initially sympathetic . If there was an actual physical class war going on it could only be considered as active treason . I dont mean that in any jokey or hyperbolic sense either .
I can only speak for myself as someone whod be very sympathetic and very happy to see something like occupy go somewhere, but i would immediately withdraw from any project that started incorporating this utter rubbish into its structures . And i suspect a great many ordinary workers who dont subscribe to these counter cultures would too . This has the appearance of a bunch of cranks spotting a political vaccuum which they saw as an opportunity to propagate their ballsology and as soon as they did the vaccuum collapsed and they disappeared up their own backsides . And thats what theyll continue to do ad infinitum unless forces on the left challenge them and tell them to check their utter bullshit

Also based on a silly attempt to replay the 1960s? Which weren't the Woodstock paradise a generation of US kids has been led to believe they were.
 
Also based on a silly attempt to replay the 1960s? Which weren't the Woodstock paradise a generation of US kids has been led to believe they were.

funny enough im just after reading a book on the global student uprisings of 1968 .The general cluelessness seems to be being replayed at least . Along with the privilege checking et al
 
funny enough im just after reading a book on the global student uprisings of 1968 .The general cluelessness seems to be being replayed at least . Along with the privilege checking et al

At least they had Bernadette Devlin. Is that the David Caute book you're reading, btw?
 
page1-424px-OccupyHandSignals.pdf.jpg

Rather large potential for mis-interpreting leftists as oppositional, I'd say?

Don't you
twinklenotwinkle-655-r.jpg

?

Rather a large potential for those of us with upper limb mobility issues to get fucked over, too.
 
Pah. I'm functionally ambidextrous, motherfucker. I can knock you on your arse with either paw! :p

Check your privilege :mad:

There's probably a serious point in here somewhere but I'm buggered if I can think what it is! :D

Oh yes, what we just did was demonstrate using the humour how people with enormous privilege can use the narrow focus of identity politics to present themselves as oppressed by people far less privileged than them simply by focusing on one minor 'oppression' (one that's dwarfed by their massive privilege) they suffer from but the other person doesn't.

So if I were a rich, white, left handed person from the north without a disability I could ignore the fact that VP is a is Jewish prole with a disability and, tragically, comes from that London - and just claim to be a left hander, horribly oppressed by VP's ambidextrous privilege.

Like when Laurie Penny, with her private education, swanky media job, elite social networks etc is able to dismiss working class critics by pointing to their 'unexamined male privilege' (something that appears to also apply to female critics if they post on urban for some reason). And then if that doesn't work actually use that privileged media platform to defame them, safe in the knowledge that they have no real means of redress.

The interesting thing is that I think intersectionality was supposed to combat this kind of thing by showing how the various privileges and oppressions 'intersect' with one another. That the opposite is true - ie. that its most active practitioners view privileges and oppressions in isolation and use them as a stick to beat people with - is a damning indictment on the theory as a whole. It would be like Marxists using Marxism to 'show' that capitalists are exploited by their workers (and no, spiked/RCP doesn't count as Marxist lol)
 
Thinking back to my one experience with Occupy an early morning picket of building sites for national pay agreements to be honoured - and I got told off as encouraging racism by someone younger than me because I used the phrase third world to describe changes. bit my lip nothing happened not scarred - racism is worse than incorrect accusations of racism - sure.

If we agree that privilege analysis is incorrect - how can it be challenged without it being turned into 'aha, you're privileged (unchecked, natch) so it's self-interested for you to be against privilege theory/progressive stack'.

Everything can get personalised - and every person probably has a privilege weakness/vulnerability which can be exploited - it can all be pinned on that.
There's always someone worse off than you - that's entirely correct because things can be seen in many ways there will always be people who are less privileged and hence 'you're trying to stop privilege analysis to protect your meagre privilege, stop supporting capitalism by being such a 1960s oaf and talking about class primacy, it all matters... no anti-racism without ableism, no class struggle without anti-homophobia, no anti-ageism without feminism.' (to many will sound like 'i'm checking my privileges and you can too, just accept the privilege analysis, take it in, there's a good boy/girl'

Perhaps it can't be challenged on an individual argument level. One person's opposition is too easily batted away. :confused: Am I going crazy even thinking this through?

Argument at an individual level will always privilege those who are most knowledgeable and articulate on the subject of privilege theory.
 
Argument at an individual level will always privilege those who are most knowledgeable and articulate on the subject of privilege theory.

It seems there's two options then. Either we get really fucking good at privilege theory and intersectionalise the fuck out of identity politickers until they give up or we just abandon them as beyond redemption and go and talk to some normal people instead. I favour the latter approach :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom