Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Random]

But, yet again, I'm digressing, we need some hand signal emotes to shut me up...

I'd write a proper reply, but I'm too busy trying to work out who you are... Who's side were you on, when the Free Trade Hall debacle happened...

 

[Idris2002]

Eh? Normal people don't use hand signals? Normal people don't raise their hands, clap, wave, thumbs up etc?
What has this particular set of hand signals got to do with 'They dont hate themselves because theyre white and male....'

No they don't - not like this, anyway. Raise your hands, clap, wave, give the thumbs up - you'll do that spontaneously in a framework you take for granted having been born and brought up in any given culture.

Or you could develop your own set of obscure hand signals which few if any people in your culture will understand - but you won't be trying to communicate with them anyway.

 

[Bakunin]

I've been at meetings where the hand signals were used and frankly I always thought it was ridiculous. It made what should have been meaningful conversations and debates about actions, resolving issues within he group and general decision making into something resembling a bastard cross between Kenny Everett's 'Brother Lee Love' sketches and those twats doing the hand jive during the closing credits of 'Blockbusters.'

Far better (and more practical) just to have a chair/facilitator who actually knows what they're doing and go from there, IMHO.

 

[Random]

Or you could develop your own set of obscure hand signals which few if any people in your culture will understand - but you won't be trying to communicate with them anyway.

Is there an anthropological term for this kind of in-group marker? One that you can teach us so we can knowingly drop the term and thereby exclude the hipsters when we meet them?

 

[Casually Red]

its a dead fucking loss , a waste of time .

 

[ViolentPanda]

Identity politics wanker at my uni (the one I mentioned a few posts back with the Foucault finger puppets who's gonna be a Sabb next year):



The cancer.is.spreading

Ask him who decides what is "properly inclusive", please. Tell him that if he doesn't answer, a middle-aged Jewish "person with disabilities" is going to come up there and exert physical force direct action on his identity-politicking arse.

 

[Idris2002]

jesus i hate hipsters

 

[Idris2002]

Is there an anthropological term for this kind of in-group marker? One that you can teach us so we can knowingly drop the term and thereby exclude the hipsters when we meet them?

Off the top of my head, the best I can come up with is "boundary marker" but there must be a better one. . .

 

[Casually Red]

...

I'm often quiet in meetings where I haven't anything constructive to add or lack the knowledge/experience to make a useful point. What's the point in shutting more relevant speakers up to force me to say " yeah, er, well, dunno really"?

exactly . A lot of meetings Ive organised and even spoke at have people going there who want to listen, maybe just to one or 2 people .
A decent chair will make sure everyone who wants to make a point or ask a question gets to do it, and if your talking shit you get told so . And even if the chairs no good the people in the room should insist on it .

 

[sihhi]

Somebody who's earning billions of pounds isn't allowed to have their privilege checked because they're black, great

* I'm sorry you've already been told to have a seat -(hint: that means be silent.) *

You must only attack white people who are the same skin colour as you, since you are white.
Only black women - not black men not white women - those who are in the same intersection hence have lived experience of the same cross-sections of oppression - may criticise Beyonce. They, thus, are incapable of "undermining Beyonce’s empowerment and autonomy" and will not "define her merit by what she does or wears" meaning they are highly unlikely to be "reinforcing the oppressive society that dictates that everything including women and their rights are commodities and for sale and alienated from their person".

 

[chilango]

I'd write a proper reply, but I'm too busy trying to work out who you are... Who's side were you on, when the Free Trade Hall debacle happened...

Pm me.

 

[butchersapron]

Is there an anthropological term for this kind of in-group marker? One that you can teach us so we can knowingly drop the term and thereby exclude the hipsters when we meet them?

Off the top of my head, the best I can come up with is "boundary marker" but there must be a better one. . .

A shibboleth? ( Of which we must have none).

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've seen jazz hands used at University stuff - in the end, those who are best at knowing the system are the best at getting their points across. They know the full range, whereas new people don't. Barrier.

So we're back to social and cultural capital, and the disproportionate benefits that accrue to the middle class, again.

 

[Idris2002]

No they don't - not like this, anyway. Raise your hands, clap, wave, give the thumbs up - you'll do that spontaneously in a framework you take for granted having been born and brought up in any given culture.

Or you could develop your own set of obscure hand signals which few if any people in your culture will understand - but you won't be trying to communicate with them anyway.

As I was saying:



Note the special hand gestures.

 

[Casually Red]

So people already have a set of commonly understood hand signals? Why not just stick with them then?

except theyre normal hand signals for normal people .

 

[chilango]

I think we should have local hand signals for local people.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh, that's the geezer that I quoted much, much earlier in this very thread when he said "Straight white men who don't like intersectionality or privilege theory unfollow and if possible stop breathing".

Whoever wrote that needs to check his passive-aggressvity privilege.

 

[cesare]

Some normal people use the hand signals to talk with normally, and that's a cross class thing as well.

 

[Random]

Pm me.

No, I'm too worried you're on of the wankers I hate. Although tbh none of them would have known any AFA/Red Action people

 

[J Ed]

* I'm sorry you've already been told to have a seat -(hint: that means be silent.) *

You must only attack white people who are the same skin colour as you, since you are white.
Only black women - not black men not white women - those who are in the same intersection hence have lived experience of the same cross-sections of oppression - may criticise Beyonce. They, thus, are incapable of "undermining Beyonce’s empowerment and autonomy" and will not "define her merit by what she does or wears" meaning they are highly unlikely to be "reinforcing the oppressive society that dictates that everything including women and their rights are commodities and for sale and alienated from their person".

I've had people tell me this, always non-Muslim identity politics types re: Islamists who call for the death of gay people but apparently there's an exception - if you study Islam in depth and speak classical Arabic (unlike most Muslims) then you can criticise Islamists for calling for the death of gay people. I have no idea how far this logic extends, should only Mormon police officers in America rescue abused children from FLDS cults in Utah? What level of operating thetan do you have to be to confront a Scientologist shop lifter?

 

[sihhi]

Rob Ray made a point on libcom worth reading:

http://libcom.org/blog/rob-ray/meetings-which-dont-drag-03102006

For the benefit of those not in the know, I should explain that wavy hands are the strange and unloved progeny of summit-hoppers who got fed up with people interrupting meetings to agree, at length, with things that had already been said.

The fundamental problem was that the solution – a series of hand gestures that would baffle deaf people everywhere - was worse than the problem, with stupidly large chunks of every meeting being given over to explaining that doing ‘Jazz Hands’ meant you agreed with something, making a ‘T’ shape was admonishing someone for going off on a tangent, etc. Curiously, it never occurred to people that a) this doesn’t stop summit bores from saying exactly what they want regardless until someone actually tells them to shut up rather than just glaring b) someone in a big room frantically ‘T’ing is easily ignored, and c) nodding was invented several thousand years ago for precisely the same reason as Jazz Hands, and smacks rather less of elitists filling the world with specialised political jargon.

"nodding was invented several thousand years ago for precisely the same reason as Jazz Hands"

 

[chilango]

No, I'm too worried you're on of the wankers I hate. Although tbh none of them would have known any AFA/Red Action people

I was a bit of a wanker back then though to be fair...

 

[Random]

Even nowadays in meetings I find it hard to suppress the urge to jazz hands. I've been caderised

 

[Casually Red]

if abu hamza ever veers left therell be a blood bath in hipsterville

 

[sihhi]

I've had people tell me this by non-Muslim identity politics types re: Islamists who call for the death of gay people but apparently there's an exception - if you study Islam in depth and speak classical Arabic (unlike most Muslims) then you can criticise Islamists for calling for the death of gay people. I have no idea how far this logic extends, should only Mormon police officers in America rescue abused children from FLDS cults in Utah? What level of operating thetan do you have to be to confront a Scientologist shop lifter?

Only black people from Italy can hate Di Canio?

 

[ViolentPanda]

What's interesting about that is that there is no indication at all about what "oppression" really means.

That feels like the underlying intention to me, with my cynical britches on - the reduction of the idea of oppression not to something based on fact, but on how people feel.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what about "progressive stack" based on class then, out of interest? A "no privately educated people wittering on" rule would tempt me....

You don't need a progressive stack to stop that, just a decent right jab.

 

[JimW]

You are still allowed to sit behind someone and make the slow wanking motion though?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Exactly.

It's almost as if these groups are using these cult-like theatre school mannerisms to filter out people with any sense of self-awareness

TBF, if that were actually the case, the dirty rotten bastards would be teaching people mimes, not sign language!

 

[Casually Red]

That feels like the underlying intention to me, with my cynical britches on - the reduction of the idea of oppression not to something based on fact, but on how people feel.

i agree .Its ludicrous .

And its the very same shit the right and the libertarians et al thrive on . Im reminded of Arnolds schwarneggers governor campaign years ago, and all these rich californians angrily pumping their fists to Twisted Sisters " we're not gonna take it ,anymore"