Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[weepiper]

Funnily enough, the ''normal people'' in my local aren't white. Each to his own though eh?

Considerably less racist than yow.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

Funnily enough, the ''normal people'' in my local aren't white. Each to his own though eh?

Wish I lived in Barbados

 

[phildwyer]

Some cultural ideas, practices and traditions are shit. A person's culture is not some inherent thing they carry around with them until the day they die.

Edit: That was supposed to be a reply to phildwyer

I've no idea why you think I'd disagree with either of your points here.

 

[phildwyer]

Why, then, are you using their logic in your arguments?

The logic of ''privilege theory'' or ''identity politics?''

Never have used either, never would. There are alternatives available between the extremes of cultural relativism and xenophobia.

 

[cesare]

Actually what we are witnessing here is little more than Pere Duchesnisme.

I'm trying, I'm really trying, to envisage the IWCA as the vanguard of revolutionary times

 

[love detective]

Not yet but I don't want to be unfair - she's explained that it's very early over there and asked if I'm free in 10 minutes - I've asked if she's free after 5 so I can listen to the match and I await her reply.

How can you think of football at a time like this

 

[phildwyer]

If it can only be expressed in Latin it's not proper proletarian rage

Latin. Formıdable!

 

[phildwyer]

I'm trying, I'm really trying, to envisage the IWCA as the vanguard of revolutionary times

We could do worse than remember the lessons of the Latin Revolutıon.

 

[cesare]

Not yet but I don't want to be unfair - she's explained that it's very early over there and asked if I'm free in 10 minutes - I've asked if she's free after 5 so I can listen to the match and I await her reply.

Who's meant to be ringing you?

 

[cesare]

We could do worse than remember the lessons of the Latin Revolutıon.

Oh, I thought you were drawing comparisons between the IWCA's position and the French Revolution.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Well I just got my call - she's going to retract the accusation which is all I was really bothered about.

I completely forgot to ask about 'M' but I've just emailed her about it and hopefully she'll get back to me with some news about it.

For information, she assures me that she has never had a trust fund.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Who's meant to be ringing you?

LP

 

[FreddyB]

SPiney isn't racist, it's official. The voice of the left has spoken.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Very early where?

New York.

 

[SpineyNorman]

How can you think of football at a time like this

Priorities mate

 

[Athos]

It does seem to be the logical conclusion of her position, or perhaps it would be fairer to say that she seems to take the wholly idealist view that examining it is enough to negate the negative effects of it, so that privilege itself still exists but purely as a result of looking at it through a microscope it is turned into good privilege which can then be used for progressive and 'good' ends - she's said in the past that the fact that she comes from a privileged background helps to make her a better activist (better than all the rest!)

so what 'we' need is not the end of privilege in society but actually more of it, just a different kind, a good kind - her kind

You're spot on. That's the natural conclusion of that line of thinking.

To me, identity politics seem divisive except insofar as privilege theory could have a place inside working class movements, to ensure that such movements are inclusive of the whole class. But such an approach should never be more than a means to an end - the end being class struggle. The problem comes when people fetishise identity politics, making them the end in themselves, and class struggle subordinate to them.

The obvious reason for them doing so is that class struggle is anathema to the interests of the loudest advocates of identity politics. Nothing encapsulates this better than privately educated, well-connected, well paid, trans-atlantic jet-setting 'activists.'

 

[phildwyer]

Oh, I thought you were drawing comparisons between the IWCA's position and the French Revolution.

I was. The ''Latin'' bit was a joke.

My point was that class hatred alone can only get you so far. Approximately as far as 1794, to be exact.

 

[equationgirl]

New York.

It's 5 hours behind, not ten. It's 10am there, 'very early' my arse.

 

[SpineyNorman]

SPiney isn't racist, it's official. The voice of the left has spoken.

I'm not racist and wednesday are 1-0 up. It doesn't get much better than this

 

[Firky]

How are you going to celebrate your absolution, Spiney?

(10am on a Saturday is far too early to get up TBF)

 

[SpineyNorman]

Not sure where the apologies on both sides thing comes from but I really cannot be arsed to argue.

 

[equationgirl]

SPiney isn't racist, it's official. The voice of the left has spoken.

Has she tweeted it to he 50,000+ followers too?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yes.

 

[equationgirl]

How are you going to celebrate your absolution, Spiney?

(10am on a Saturday is far too early to get up TBF)

Yes but she was making out it was the middle of the night.

I might have got up at 1pm today (insomnia till after 4)...

 

[SpineyNorman]

How are you going to celebrate your absolution, Spiney?

(10am on a Saturday is far too early to get up TBF)

Soon as the match ends and my mum takes over with the kids I'm off to the chippy, then it's guinness and a massive spliff

I've been invited to the Socialist Worker Student Society Christmas social tonight but one accusation of bigotry is quite enough for one week so I think I'll decline that one

 

[equationgirl]

For posterity:

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
It was a misunderstanding, there were apologies on both sides. Talking to @spineynorman78 was very positive - and I normally hate the phone.

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14m​

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Just had a useful phone discussion with @spineynorman78. He asked me to clarify that I do not now consider him racist. I'm happy to do so.

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[Firky]

Yes but she was making out it was the middle of the night.

I might have got up at 1pm today (insomnia till after 4)...

Jet lag (her not you)?

I had terrible insomnia last night and read until about 4 but still woke up just after 9... so I am yet again tired and bleurgh! I have zopiclone but it makes me very forgetful and cotton headed the next day.

Soon as the match ends and my mum takes over with the kids I'm off to the chippy, then it's guinness and a massive spliff

I've been invited to the Socialist Worker Student Society Christmas social tonight but one accusation of bigotry is quite enough for one week so I think I'll decline that one

The notorious racism inherent at swappy bashes is disgusting, the snowman is a hideously white and male. A symbol of white male power.

You're best off not going

 

[DaveCinzano]

For posterity:

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Just had a useful phone discussion with @spineynorman78. He asked me to clarify that I do not now consider him racist. I'm happy to do so.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Jet lag (her not you)?

I had terrible insomnia last night and read until about 4 but still woke up just after 9... so I am yet again tired and bleurgh! I have zopiclone but it makes me very forgetful and cotton headed the next day.

I had them when I was doing a detox once - it was the aftertaste I couldn't handle - like sucking on a lump of copper.

The notorious racism inherent at swappy bashes is disgusting, the snowman is a hideously white and male. A symbol of white male power.

You're best off not going

It's not so much the all pervasive culture of brocialism as jealous socially inadequate swappy males denouncing me as a misogynist if I cop off with a lass

 

[Athos]

SPiney isn't racist, it's official. The voice of the left has spoken.

No smoke without fire, though.