9/11 military tapes released - Pentagon lied to the 9/11 commission

[Bob_the_lost]

Pragmatics dear bob. You've only been here a short time, others have been ding donging on this topic for over four years.

I was talking to that bees person, the context was unique between him, me, and my text. If it was bile (which is subjective), then it was deserved bile.

As for coming back, i've said all i have to say on this topic many times. It is pointless carrying on after a while. So i just remain here to try and expose the hypocrisy of the likes of yourself who insist on staggering incompetence as the reason the attacks took place.

One of the funnier ones is watching those who like to claim the moral high ground. Another one is listening to them describing the behaviour patterns of others while simultaneously missing the irony that they are in fact describing them very selves.

Funny old world innit.

Aaah, so you are allowed to hand out abuse and i'm not. Fantastic, glad we got that sorted. I like to make my irritation clear rather than relying upon snide allegations and inuendos.

You are failing to expose my hypocrisy rather badly, if your goal is to expose it to others then maybe i'm wrong, but the inability to distinguish between an article with an introduction that attempts to be fair at all times and that steve jones idiocy is incredible.

Moral high ground? What the hell has that got to do with it, this isn't about who goes to heaven, this is about your insistence that 9/11 was a conspiracy. Read that article then try and come back with something, anything about the points it raises. Hell i did so for the steve jones stuff, are you saying you're not as capable as I?

 

[Gavin Bl]

They are forced to lie to support the official story and you just lap it up?

Oh. My. God.

 

[fela fan]

Moral high ground? What the hell has that got to do with it, this isn't about who goes to heaven, this is about your insistence that 9/11 was a conspiracy.

Rubbish bob, rubbish man. I never have said 911 was a conspiracy, and certainly not 'insisted' it, so it's interesting that you have applied that to me. I have been consistently misunderstood on this topic for years now by several people. It's easy to understand how this can happen, but no space here to explain. Anyway, please accept that you're wrong about me here: read on.

Let's be clear, ever since history has been recorded, those in power have conspired to carry out actions that are illegal in order to achieve their aims of keeping and extending their power.

No doubt you agree with that.

Conspiracy theories are a reaction to this. We know that in practice conspiracies have been hatched, and then carried out. However, without any evidence, theories among the peoples develop as a method towards uncovering the illegal actions of those in power.

Those in power, in the more recently technologically savvy times, have developed and encouraged a whole lexicon of 'conspiracy theory' words, which have been a very useful smokescreen to have us at each others' throats while they just sit back getting away with their crimes. One of the outcomes is that some people call other people 'nutters' or in effect mad people. As if!!

As for me personally, all i've ever thought about these attacks is, firstly that elements of the american establishment let the attacks happen. Upon accepting that premise i then found it more compelling that in fact they made the attacks happen. In other words they set the plan in motion.

I come to my conclusions not based on evidence, for none of us have any of that so it is not a basis on which to have opinions here, but based on the hundreds of hours i've read on the topic (from a variety of websites, articles, and books), and on the dozens and dozens of books i've read down the years on the actions of political leaders and establishment sorts, not forgetting the role of the media, and on other aspects of life such as psychology, language, the art of deception and so the list goes on.

Just to clarify like!

Now, cut the abuse out yer fucker.

[ said in jest mate]

 

[fela fan]

So, yeah, I will, although I can see why you wouldn't, seeing as you have admitted before you aren't bothered by actual facts.

Here's another misnomer attached to me.

I have never once 'admitted' not 'being bothered' by facts.

What i have said is that i cannot make any judgment on what happened on that september morning based on facts, because NONE OF US HAVE ANY FACTS AT OUR DISPOSAL. Okay!

How can i be overly worried about facts when we don't have any?

Every single one of us is reduced to conjecture based upon our own unique person. We all have a different amalgam of experiences and knowledges from which to arrive at our opinions. We will also arrive at a certain degree of confidence in each opinion.

The facts in other cases of misuse and abuse of power by american establishment sorts are not in dispute. The fact that precedence, and to a large extent when we're talking about the USG (and past empires), is established helps one arrive at various conclusions. Precedence as i'm sure you know is taken as an important legal precept.

It really comes down to two things and which we find more or less believable:

staggering incompetence, both leading up to the attacks, and on the day during them;

or

knowing they were going to happen and not stopping them from happening.

As most will know on this forum i find the former just too hard to accept. That single premise led me on my path to spending rather a lot of time researching the topic. And i'm happy to conclude not only did they let the attacks happen, but they actually set the plan in motion themselves.

So please stop reducing my input on this topic to such pat assumptions which are totally wrong.

 

[editor]

I never have said 911 was a conspiracy, and certainly not 'insisted' it...

....And i'm happy to conclude not only did they let the attacks happen, but they actually set the plan in motion themselves.

I have never once 'admitted' not 'being bothered' by facts....

...I come to my conclusions not based on evidence.

You're sure living in a strange fantasy world full of denial, fela.

 

[detective-boy]

JUST FANCY THAT!

I'm not interested in evidence, have no need to be interested in it.

I have never once 'admitted' not 'being bothered' by facts.

 

[ska invita]

-Had to dig out any old 9/11 thread rather than start a new one -

this is interesting, from todays Democracy now - Loose Change vs Popular Mechanics:

September 11, 2001 - five years after the attacks many people are asking questions about what happened on that day in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. Websites, articles, books and documentaries have put forward a variety of alternate theories to the government's account of what happened.

The most popular of these is a documentary called "Loose Change." Now, a book dealing with many of these theories has just been published by the magazine Popular Mechanics, it's called "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts."

In a Democracy Now! national broadcast exclusive, we host a debate between the filmmakers of Loose Change and the editors of Popular Mechanics on 9/11. [includes rush transcript - partial]:

Full transcript here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203

Loose change can be seen here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en

 

[laptop]

JUST FANCY THAT!

But surely what you present there is, er, evidence, and therefore of no concern of fela fan's?

 

[Loki]

Touche! It's a win-win for fela

 

[Jazzz]

-Had to dig out any old 9/11 thread rather than start a new one -

this is interesting, from todays Democracy now - Loose Change vs Popular Mechanics:


Full transcript here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203

Interesting, thanks niksativa...

 

[oake]

-Had to dig out any old 9/11 thread rather than start a new one -

this is interesting, from todays Democracy now - Loose Change vs Popular Mechanics:


Full transcript here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203

Loose change can be seen here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en

Thanks for that, niksativa.

Unfortunately, the transcript is only the first part of the programme (although the .mp3 runs to the end).

It's not particularly informative, though. I expected the blokes from Popular Mechanics to add rather more to our knowledge, but they were a bit of a disappointment.

The only new (to me) thing they stated is that the initial hole in the Pentagon was about 90 feet across, rather than 12-16 feet, which, in view of all the published photographs available, seemed like a fairly outlandish claim to make.
Apart from that, it was mostly "we've consulted experts and you're wrong".

All in all, not a particularly enlightening programme, but thanks for the link.

 

[editor]

It's not particularly informative, though. I expected the blokes from Popular Mechanics to add rather more to our knowledge, but they were a bit of a disappointment.

Looks like they didn't get much chance to explain things with the Loose Change speakers employing the time-honoured, "let's rapidly change tack" tactic.

 

[Jazzz]

Looks like they didn't get much chance to explain things with the Loose Change speakers employing the time-honoured, "let's rapidly change tack" tactic.

gosh did you actually listen to it ed?

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

gosh did you actually listen to it ed?

Why would you think he didn't?

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

What annoyed me most was the text being read out like I can't read.

 

[editor]

gosh did you actually listen to it ed?

Gosh I read the full transcript included in the link above.



You should try doing some research some time - that way you won;t make a total arse of yourself posting up links to sci-fi documents and claiming they're from an "army manual" showing non-existent holographic technology.

 

[Jazzz]

Why would you think he didn't?

Because he's always claimed a complete disdain for the topic

 

[editor]

Because he's always claimed complete disdain for the topic

You're talking shite again Jazzz.

Go to bed and dream of those sci-fi holographic planes you thought already existed!

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

IT repeats itself a lot too. I watched it. Lots of notes. All of which I'll form into a post in the next couple of days. But it's all bollocks. Mainly, it uses som credible evidence of one thing to 'prove' another and then changes the subject quick.

Terrible film.

 

[laptop]

Meanwhile... you think we've got conspiranoids?

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/simon_jenkins/2006/09/post_364.html

 

[Jazzz]

Gosh I read the full transcript included in the link above.



You should try doing some research some time - that way you won;t make a total arse of yourself posting up links to sci-fi documents and claiming they're from an "army manual" showing non-existent holographic technology.

I didn't quite know what it was, but it was a military theory manual and showed they had plans for the stuff ten years ago. I don't see how that makes me a 'total arse'. It was an interesting contribution. Besides the zebra imaging stuff was here and now. To be honest I think you make yourself look an arse with your agressive closed-mindedness, you think these discussions are exclusively about who 'wins' rather than whether they well facilitate the sharing of information and opinions.

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

I didn't quite know what it was, but it was a military theory manual and showed they had plans for the stuff ten years ago. I don't see how that makes me a 'total arse'. It was an interesting contribution. Besides the zebra imaging stuff was here and now. To be honest I think you make yourself look an arse with your agressive closed-mindedness, you think these discussions are exclusively about who 'wins' rather than whether they help sharing information and opinions.

As do you.

 

[oake]

Looks like they didn't get much chance to explain things with the Loose Change speakers employing the time-honoured, "let's rapidly change tack" tactic.

Probably. The whole programme was a bit rushed too, with Amy Goodman trying to cover a number of issues in the time available, and cutting short discussion of each topic before it got interesting.

I'd already heard most of the Loose Change points, and the two blokes who made the film seemed to get most of the airtime - I was more interested in hearing from the Popular Mechanics speakers, and I didn't feel they made the best of the (admittedly limited) time they had.

I suppose I expected too much - formats like that rarely tackle subjects in much depth, and my interest in the detail probably isn't widely shared.

 

[laptop]

Once again Jazzzz demonstrates that he actually doesn't understand the difference between "is" and "what if?".

 

[ska invita]

What annoyed me most was the text being read out like I can't read.

democracy now is a radio show - the tranhscript if of what was broadcast, or more accurately half the show - full audio vewrsion is available here:
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2006/sept/audio/dn20060911.ra&proto=rtsp&start=16:35

The audio includes the subject of the towers themselves.

 

[editor]

I didn't quite know what it was,....

So, it was yet another greeeeat Jazzz link!

 

[sparticus]

I hope you all caught your regular dose of the "Heaven and Earth" show this week

Enjoy

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=9181676883393469552&q=griffin+2006

 

[editor]

I hope you all caught your regular dose of the "Heaven and Earth" show this week

Now there's a serious current affairs programme with hard hitting presenters!

Watch that program often, do you?

 

[sparticus]

Does this 2 hour James Whale phone programme have any more significance?

http://www.multi-illusion.com/James Whale Interviews Dr David Ray Griffin - 11.09.2006.mp3

Have a listen to David Ray Griffin and tell me he's a 'conspiraloon'. If you think he is a 'conspiraloon', please explain how he fits your definition and if he's not please address the evidence he presents. Are you familiar with his 2 books New Pearl Harbour or the 9/11 Commission....?

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

you want me to watch 2 more hours after I watched 90 mins, took notes and then you lot said "oh, that was shit in the end"

FFS