15th April 1989, 22 years on and still no justice

[Fedayn]

It's just four words, four simple words is all we demand...

Justice for the 96

Hillsborough Justice Campaign

The aftermath

RIP

John Alfred Anderson (62)
Colin Mark Ashcroft (19)
James Gary Aspinall (18)
Kester Roger Marcus Ball (16)
Gerard Bernard Patrick Baron (67)
Simon Bell (17)
Barry Sidney Bennett (26)
David John Benson (22)
David William Birtle (22)
Tony Bland (22)
Paul David Brady (21)
Andrew Mark Brookes (26)
Carl Brown (18)
David Steven Brown (25)
Henry Thomas Burke (47)
Peter Andrew Burkett (24)
Paul William Carlile (19)
Raymond Thomas Chapman (50)
Gary Christopher Church (19)
Joseph Clark (29)
Paul Clark (18)
Gary Collins (22)
Stephen Paul Copoc (20)
Tracey Elizabeth Cox (23)
James Philip Delaney (19)
Christopher Barry Devonside (18)
Christopher Edwards (29)
Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons (34)
Thomas Steven Fox (21)
Jon-Paul Gilhooley (10)
Barry Glover (27)
Ian Thomas Glover (20)
Derrick George Godwin (24)
Roy Harry Hamilton (34)
Philip Hammond (14)
Eric Hankin (33)
Gary Harrison (27)
Stephen Francis Harrison (31)
Peter Andrew Harrison (15)
David Hawley (39)
James Robert Hennessy (29)
Paul Anthony Hewitson (26)
Carl Darren Hewitt (17)
Nicholas Michael Hewitt (16)
Sarah Louise Hicks (19)
Victoria Jane Hicks (15)
Gordon Rodney Horn (20)
Arthur Horrocks (41)
Thomas Howard (39)
Thomas Anthony Howard (14)
Eric George Hughes (42)
Alan Johnston (29)
Christine Anne Jones (27)
Gary Philip Jones (18)
Richard Jones (25)
Nicholas Peter Joynes (27)
Anthony Peter Kelly (29)
Michael David Kelly (38)
Carl David Lewis (18)
David William Mather (19)
Brian Christopher Mathews (38)
Francis Joseph McAllister (27)
John McBrien (18)
Marion Hazel McCabe (21)
Joseph Daniel McCarthy (21)
Peter McDonnell (21)
Alan McGlone (28)
Keith McGrath (17)
Paul Brian Murray (14)
Lee Nicol (14)
Stephen Francis O'Neill (17)
Jonathon Owens (18)
William Roy Pemberton (23)
Carl William Rimmer (21)
David George Rimmer (38)
Graham John Roberts (24)
Steven Joseph Robinson (17)
Henry Charles Rogers (17)
Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton (23)
Inger Shah (38)
Paula Ann Smith (26)
Adam Edward Spearritt (14)
Philip John Steele (15)
David Leonard Thomas (23)
Patrik John Thompson (35)
Peter Reuben Thompson (30)
Stuart Paul William Thompson (17)
Peter Francis Tootle (21)
Christopher James Traynor (26)
Martin Kevin Traynor (16)
Kevin Tyrrell (15)
Colin Wafer (19)
Ian David Whelan (19)
Martin Kenneth Wild (29)
Kevin Daniel Williams (15)
Graham John Wright (17)

 

[TruXta]

Cheers, Feds. Let's hope something comes out of this latest inquiry. About fucking time. Justice for the 96.

 

[embree]

Nothing to add to that. It's about time

 

[editor]

Aye. It's a disgrace.

 

[chieftain]

They deserve justice. RIP

 

[rosa]

It's got to the stage now where i can't face repeating myself every year, as much as it still needs to be said.
RIP. Never forgotten.

 

[embree]

It's got to the stage now where i can't face repeating myself every year, as much as it still needs to be said.
RIP. Never forgotten.

Aye, same arguments every year with the same misinformed rubbish trotted out by people who haven't read a thing about it beyond the memory of some ill-formed prejudice against football fans and/or Scousers. Try bringing some facts to the table and the response is something along the lines of 'I know what I think', the cry of the bigoted dick everywhere.

 

[temper_tantrum]

RIP.

 

[Athos]

That there has never been justice for this tragedy is a disgrace to this nation.

RIP

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Nothing to add to the above really apart from it is a national disgrace that the families are still waiting for justice.

 

[goldenecitrone]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/15/liverpool-hillsborough-disaster-new-evidence

For ourselves also, it has been that long that there is a generation of our supporters now who know about it but obviously weren't there. I'm sure it is to the forefront of their minds as well. Everybody knows what it means to the football club and everybody knows how difficult it is for the people who lost someone there. The sooner they get the justice for themselves, the happier they will be and we all will be for them."

Justice will come.

 

[bromley]

Justice won't come because there's more to the disaster than people are willing to admit.

 

[butchersapron]

What people?

 

[Fedayn]

Justice won't come because there's more to the disaster than people are willing to admit.

Ok then, tell us what that 'more than people are willing to admit' is then.

 

[nastybobby]

I have every sympathy with the victims and their families. I was at the Bradford City fire, my sister went to school with and a friend helped nurse Tony Bland [who died a few years after Hillsborough after being in a persistent vegetative state because of his injuries]. If anyone is genuinely interested in the systematic cover-up and just outright lies by those who should have been protecting the fans that day, I can recommend: 'Hillsborough- The Truth' by Professor Phil Scraton. It's a disgrace that those responsible are at liberty when quite a few should have been jailed, if not for their failures then for perverting the course of justice.

 

[tommers]

What does "justice" consist of? What would it take for people to say "OK, that's what we want, we can stop now"?

Is it an apology from the police? People prosecuted? The police saying the supporters weren't to blame?

I looked at the website but all it says is...

1) To pursue Justice for those 96 people who died in the Hillsborough Stadium Disaster of 1989, the bereaved Families, the Survivors who came perilously close to dying in Pens 3 and 4 and those unfortunate people still suffering from the ensuing trauma of the Disaster.

 

[Fedayn]

What does "justice" consist of? What would it take for people to say "OK, that's what we want, we can stop now"?

Is it an apology from the police? People prosecuted? The police saying the supporters weren't to blame?

I looked at the website but all it says is...

Depends on who you ask. Personally i'd leave that decisions to the families of the 96. But i'd like to see prosecutions, some apologies and the guilty in jail.....

 

[butchersapron]

Prosecution of police officers, the public recogniton that they destroyed evidence and hindered the truth coming out and generally acted like arseholes.

Compensation for those who've had to give up so much of their time and money in the fight to establish the truth.

A new enquiry based on the acceptance of the first point that establishes true narrative of what happened and why.

Proper funding for medical and psychological counselling - as well as legal support for the claims against the negligence of soliciters who (mis)represented the victims and their familes.

kelvin mackenzie hanging from a lampost and the sun banished from the land.

For starters.

 

[bromley]

Ok then, tell us what that 'more than people are willing to admit' is then.

The role the ticketless fans played. A surge with the amount of force to kill someone blows the mind, especially as plenty of Liverpool fans would be conveying back the message that there was room in other pens.

 

[tar1984]

i have limited sympathy here. these things happen, it was fucking years ago, no amount of police officers getting the jail will change things just let it go

 

[butchersapron]

The role the ticketless fans played. A surge with the amount of force to kill someone blows the mind, especially as plenty of Liverpool fans would be conveying back the message that there was room in other pens.

Ah right, the old lies. The ones taken apart in court and here, here and here.

 

[butchersapron]

i have limited sympathy here. these things happen, it was fucking years ago, no amount of police officers getting the jail will change things just let it go

What the fuck is wrong with you - you seemed like a decent sort of bloke before.

 

[Steel Icarus]

The role the ticketless fans played. A surge with the amount of force to kill someone blows the mind, especially as plenty of Liverpool fans would be conveying back the message that there was room in other pens.

This is fucking rubbish; bollocks immediately discredited & apologised for. So why peddle it again?

 

[tar1984]

What the fuck is wrong with you - you seemed like a decent sort of bloke before.

ok, you know what i was going to adopt a contrary position on this thread just for the hell of it but now i just feel bad. my apologies. of course it is a tragedy.

 

[butchersapron]

ok, you know what i was going to adopt a contrary position on this thread just for the hell of it but now i just feel bad. my apologies. of course it is a tragedy.

No worries mate.

 

[Fedayn]

The role the ticketless fans played. A surge with the amount of force to kill someone blows the mind, especially as plenty of Liverpool fans would be conveying back the message that there was room in other pens.

And on it goes....... The more a lie is repeated the more the liars believe it....

 

[Stoat Boy]

So no Liverpool fans, without tickets, tried to get into the ground by storming the gates and that this in no way contributed to what happened inside ?

I fully accept that there was a monumental fuck up in what happend and that its obvious that the full truth has never come out but the whole footballing culture of the time was one of almost mob rule and Liverpool fans were as guilty as anybody of contributing towards this.

In my opinion all of us who were involved in football both as supporters,administrators and security were in someway 'guilty' for what happened and it was an over-all culture that was out of control.

The coverage of it by the likes of the 'Sun' and so on was a disgrace but this attempt to try and paint the collective actions of Liverpool fans en-masse as being of zero relevance when it comes to attributing 'blame' is for me just a moral cowardice.

 

[butchersapron]

So no Liverpool fans, without tickets, tried to get into the ground by storming the gates and that this in no way contributed to what happened inside ?

I fully accept that there was a monumental fuck up in what happend and that its obvious that the full truth has never come out but the whole footballing culture of the time was one of almost mob rule and Liverpool fans were as guilty as anybody of contributing towards this.

In my opinion all of us who were involved in football both as supporters,administrators and security were in someway 'guilty' for what happened and it was an over-all culture that was out of control.

The coverage of it by the likes of the 'Sun' and so on was a disgrace but this attempt to try and paint the collective actions of Liverpool fans en-masse as being of zero relevance when it comes to attributing 'blame' is for me just a moral cowardice.

The storming that the police said happened and was later changed in the police reports and then thrown out by Taylor? That storming?

Moral cowardice? You're not fucking fit to use the term.

 

[Stoat Boy]

The storming that the police said happened and was later changed in the police reports and then thrown out by Taylor? That storming?

Moral cowardice? You're not fucking fit to use the term.

Come off of it. The Taylor report, whilst saying that the Police had lost control of the situation, admits that the actions of the fans were a contributing factor abliet a secondary one.

And the truth is that we have all done it for a big game. We stay in the pub and leave at the last minute and then expect to get in before kick-off. And that can lead to crush.

What happened at Hillsborogh was a culmination of numerous factors but nobody woke up with the idea that they should fuck things up and kill a load of football fans.

For me the real tragedy of Hillsborough was that those who got killed had generally heeded the advice to turn up in plenty of time but I am as guilty as anybody of thinking that I can neck that last beer and still get into a ground in time for kick off.

I mourn those poor bastards because it really was a there but the grace of God moment but I am also willing to admit that nobody deliberately set out to kill anybody on that day and that the over-all footballing culture of the day contributed to what happened.

Nobody should die due to going to see a football game. But it was 22 years ago. Lessons were learned and changes made which hopefully ensure that it will never happen again. But to still go on about 'justice' now strikes me as the politics of victim hood and wil change nothing.

It was a shitty day for British football, that seems a definite given but I do question the motives of many involved today in trying to still use this event as some sort of political football.

 

[butchersapron]

So the Taylor report backs up your moral drivel about the gate storming does it? I need an answer to that as it's the only point that you've brought to the table.