Young woman murdered in Argoed, attacker killed by police taser

[scifisam]

Executing him without trial 'accidentally' we probably won't agree on.

Firstly we have the presumption of innocence and right to a fair trial. Secondly we don't have the death penalty. The police circumvented all of that on this occasion.

We do have the presumption of innocence, and that applies to the police too. It's not like "I tasered a man who was still eating another woman, and then he died," is an outlandishly unikely version of events given that there are witnesses to the man eating the woman and seeing the police arrive.

I do actually have a little sympathy for the killer (as well as obvious sympathy for his victim). He should have been cared for better so that he never got this far.

 

[Citizen66]

Ok, whatever. Chances are she didn't know exactly what to expect and was told to "investigate a disturbance" or "a man attacking a woman", or several coppers were alerted but she arrived first.

There are now multiple reports saying that she arrived first and alone.

Yeah, seems there are a few of those. That doesn't mean she was sent alone, just that she arrived first. Maybe she was on doughnut duty and hence closer to the scene.

So the Hotel security discovered him eating a woman's face off as per report referenced above and either they forgot to mention that small fact when contacting the police or the police were informed of the fact and decided to send scared female officer to the scene alone to deal with it. Or, more likely, a mob of old bill turned up who could have subdued him by other means.

Considering she responded alone fuck knows what went through her mind. Can you imagine being called out and finding a geezer eating someones face?

Proper pants-shitting stuff.

 

[xenon]

Pfft. Maybe she was the closest officer.

 

[Spymaster]

Or, more likely, a mob of old bill turned up who could have subdued him by other means.

Given the current reports this is probably not what happened. You've made it up based on nothing but prejudice.

But what you're not getting is that even if you're right it doesn't matter.

If half the fucking Gwent police force turned up supported by a platoon of Royal Marines and found the geezer agitated, covered in blood and eating the woman, tasering him would still not have been unreasonable.

 

[Citizen66]

We're going round in circles. He didn't need to die and neither did his victim. Someone somewhere has failed in their duty of care. If it wasn't the police's intention to kill him then it calls the use of tasers to subdue people into question.

 

[Spymaster]

Someone somewhere has failed in their duty of care.

Yes. That's the real issue but you've spent the last few days pissing about with this acab nonsense.

Those responsible for letting Williams out of prison unsupported failed in their duty of care.

There's also a discussion to be had about the treatment of violent mentally ill offenders. Is it right to release a known violent criminal back into society who's perfectly fine when he takes his medication/receives support, but may well seriously harm or kill someone if he doesn't? I don't know.

If it wasn't the police's intention to kill him then it calls the use of tasers to subdue people into question.

The use of Taser has long been in question. Probably a different debate though since few reasonable folk would question its use in this case.

 

[Citizen66]

It reminds me a bit of the Bill Hicks' "pick up the gun" sketch. Bang - he had a gun.

Admittedly not done deliberately but with the same outcome.

 

[Mr Moose]

It's possible that she tasered him whilst singing Danny Boy with her thumb up her arse.

But that's not what's being reported.

There's nothing unusual about coppers carrying tasers. I saw one last week buying his lunch in Tesco.

Taser can be useful for heating said lunch up.

 

[Utopia]

He didn't need to die and neither did his victim.

The innoncent victim certainly didn't need to die but the fella(even if mental or drug addicted) that chose to kill her then after doing that decided to eat her face may have been better off removing from society swiftly.

Instant Karma got him.

 

[Citizen66]

The innoncent victim certainly didn't need to die but the fella(even if mental or drug addicted) that chose to kill her then after doing that decided to eat her face may have been better off removing from society swiftly.

Instant Karma got him.

Rather than getting care in hospital?

I'm always surprised when people express their own blood lust from the moral high ground.

 

[Spymaster]

Taser can be useful for heating said lunch up.

Wouldn't the current be too low?

 

[PursuedByBears]

The innoncent victim certainly didn't need to die but the fella(even if mental or drug addicted) that chose to kill her then after doing that decided to eat her face may have been better off removing from society swiftly.

Instant Karma got him.

Not sure that he killed her THEN ate her face or if the eating was what killed her?

 

[Mr Moose]

Wouldn't the current be too low?

Grrr. Just more proof that our Police are woefully ill-equipped.

 

[Citizen66]

Wouldn't the current be too low?

I think he was joshing. But yeah, tasers are high voltage but low current to prevent people dying. On some occasions.

 

[Spymaster]

I think he was joshing.

I know, but it raises an important question.

Does the discharge from a taser contain sufficient current to heat a Ginsters pastie?

 

[Mr Moose]

The innoncent victim certainly didn't need to die but the fella(even if mental or drug addicted) that chose to kill her then after doing that decided to eat her face may have been better off removing from society swiftly.

Instant Karma got him.

I suppose it comes down to the definition of 'choice' in this respect. Is someone who is critically delusional making a 'choice' in the way in which we usually understand the notion of free-will?

I think we need a lot more to come out at the inquest to know whether his behaviour was as a result of a lack of medication and supervision, or if these were available and rejected and if so whether that meant he could have/should have been further detained. We also really don't know the circumstances of how the use of a taser lead to his death. Whether it was used lightly and that was enough in the heightened state he was in, or if he kept on getting up to attack the Police, or if they just let him have it.

 

[Mr Moose]

I know, but it raises an important question.

Does the discharge from a taser contain sufficient current to heat a Ginsters pastie?

The one and only choice of the (flatulent) travelling Police Officer.

 

[scifisam]

So the Hotel security discovered him eating a woman's face off as per report referenced above and either they forgot to mention that small fact when contacting the police or the police were informed of the fact and decided to send scared female officer to the scene alone to deal with it. Or, more likely, a mob of old bill turned up who could have subdued him by other means.

Why are you making things up? A mob of police turned up, despite all the reports to the contrary?

What's happened to that presumption of innocence thing?

 

[Citizen66]

Why are you making things up? A mob of police turned up, despite all the reports to the contrary?

What's happened to that presumption of innocence thing?

What have I made up? I was saying I found it hard to believe that they sent a lone officer to an incident of someone getting their face eaten as reported to them by the hotel security. And there's conflicting newspaper reports regarding it.

 

[Spymaster]

What's happened to that presumption of innocence thing?

It doesn't apply to coppers.

 

[Citizen66]

It doesn't apply to coppers.

Or on internet forums.

 

[Spymaster]

Whether it was used lightly and that was enough in the heightened state he was in, or if he kept on getting up to attack the Police, or if they just let him have it.

Also the seriousness of the situation at hand comes into play.

Most of us would probably agree that tasering a shoplifter who wasn't presenting a threat to anyone would be a cunts trick. But faced with a suspect covered in blood standing over a woman with massive injuries and possibly bleeding to death, being reasonably certain he did it (or catching him at it), the idea must be to subdue him asap and get immediate help to the victim. If you're carrying a taser now is probably the time to use it rather than fucking about negotiating or cogitating on what would constitute reasonable force, regardless of whether you're alone or in a gang.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Also the seriousness of the situation at hand comes into play.

Most of us would probably agree that tasering a shoplifter who wasn't presenting a threat to anyone would be a cunts trick. But faced with a suspect covered in blood standing over a woman with massive injuries possibly bleeding to death, and being reasonably certain he did it (or catching him at it), the idea must be to subdue him asap and get immediate help to the victim. If you're carrying a taser now is probably the time to use it rather than fucking about negotiating or cogitating on what would constitute reasonable force.

How many people wouldn't keep the trigger pulled if it was a loved one getting eaten?

 

[Citizen66]

Ok you can climb out of his bum now.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Ok you can climb out of his bum now.

Fuck off you dickhead... You're trying to argue that the tazer shouldn't have been used. It'd be different if it was one of your family members getting eaten.

 

[Utopia]

Also the seriousness of the situation at hand comes into play.

Most of us would probably agree that tasering a shoplifter who wasn't presenting a threat to anyone would be a cunts trick. But faced with a suspect covered in blood standing over a woman with massive injuries and possibly bleeding to death, being reasonably certain he did it (or catching him at it), the idea must be to subdue him asap and get immediate help to the victim. If you're carrying a taser now is probably the time to use it rather than fucking about negotiating or cogitating on what would constitute reasonable force, regardless of whether you're alone or in a gang.

Utterly agree, he lost his rights for negotiations when he killed/started to eat that poor girl, the fact he probably had a weak heart, possibly due to substance abuse and couldnt handle a 'tasering' is just karma at its finest.

 

[Citizen66]

Fuck off you dickhead... You're trying to argue that the tazer shouldn't have been used. It'd be different if it was one of your family members getting eaten.

What if it was one of my family members who died following being tasered. What would I be arguing then?

 

[Dr_Herbz]

What if it was one of my family members who died following being tasered. What would I be arguing then?

If you had an ounce of sense, you wouldn't be arguing anything. You'd be saying... "Well, he was eating someone's face!"

 

[Dr_Herbz]

What do you think police should be issued with instead of a tazer? A book of "strong words to use in violent situations"? Maybe Roger's Profanisaurus?

 

[Citizen66]

If you had an ounce of sense, you wouldn't be arguing anything. You'd be saying... "Well, he was eating someone's face!"

Not everyone who gets tasered have been eating someone's face.