Will the election result finally result in ditching "First Past The Post?"

[rasputin]

Everyone seemingly has noticed that this was one of the most disproportionate election results ever.

Notably that Labour won 60% of the seats with around 35% of the votes, and actually polled fewer votes (9,731,363) than they did under Jeremy Corbyn's disastrous result in 2019 (10,269,051 votes).

Meanwhile the LibDems, for once, actually won seats proportionate to their vote (11% vs 12%). But that was an exception. The Green Party and Reform UK (yes, yes I know) have reasons to be sore after winning millions of votes and a tiny handful of seats.

My view, for what it's worth, is that this election was an unusual expression of voter anger. Voters were so angry at the Tories that they cast their votes in an utterly ruthless (and highly intelligent) way to be rid of the Tories in any way they could. I would argue that even those who stayed at home and didn't vote did so because of anger and not apathy.

For all these reasons commentators are saying things like the Labour vote is a mile wide and an inch deep. Under FPTP, if things don't go Labour's way in government, the volatility of the electorate could easily swing the other way and propel an even more extreme right wing government into power next time.

So, is this the time for the Labour government (wow, does it feel good to type that) to protect our country by getting rid of FPTP once and for all?

 

[Silas Loom]

No.

 

[ouirdeaux]

The short answer is no.

The long answer is nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[Serge Forward]

Thing is, the Lib Dems and the Liberal Party before them have been banging on about PR for decades and it got fuck all traction in the media (and before anyone says anything about that referendum a few years back, that wasn't PR). Now, as soon as old Frogface has a winge about FPTP and calling for PR, the media is all over it like a rash. Both systems are shit anyway.

 

[ouirdeaux]

To avoid misinterpretation, I should love to get rid of FPTP. But I don't believe anyone will do it in the near future.

 

[maomao]

If they do scrap the House of Lords they'll replace it with PR just because the whole party list system would ensure that there is still a gravy train available to reward loyal hacks.

I have seen some analysis that suggests the inbuilt bias of fptp for the Tories is swinging to a bias for Labour as the population ages. If so there may be a lot of shouting about PR but whether they'll abandon the advantages of the two party system for a free-for-all that guarantees a hundred of Farage's mob as well as a similar amount of Greens and probably a few trots and the like as well remains to be seen. Depends how unpopular this government is in two years time.

 

[Idris2002]

If they do scrap the House of Lords they'll replace it with PR just because the whole party list system would ensure that there is still a gravy train available to reward loyal hacks.

I have seen some analysis that suggests the inbuilt bias of fptp for the Tories is swinging to a bias for Labour as the population ages. If so there may be a lot of shouting about PR but whether they'll abandon the advantages of the two party system for a free-for-all that guarantees a hundred of Farage's mob as well as a similar amount of Greens and probably a few trots and the like as well remains to be seen. Depends how unpopular this government is in two years time.

The two recent examples of countries switching their electoral systems that I can think of are Italy and New Zealand. Italy moved away from a PR style system in the 1990s, hoping to generate a stable two-party system. The Kiwis went in the opposite direction, but that was in the context of the massive, and rapid social changes they saw under the '84 Labour government and after. In both cases, there was a general popular alienation from the political class in general. UK is already so divided that's not really going to apply or happen.

 

[rasputin]

‘Disproportionate’ UK election results boost calls to ditch first past the post

Campaigners for electoral reform say outcome has renewed pressure for proportional representation

www.theguardian.com

 

[gentlegreen]

I am finding the French system rather interesting - everyone getting a second stab if no one candidate gets half the votes.

But in the UK ?

Mostly I would like to see more people turning out to vote..

Contrast and compare...

They're STILL partying ... presumably BAC students awaiting their results ...



I don't regret the lack of burning cars and destroyed shops in the UK though ...

 

[DotCommunist]

Party who just receives landslide victory on low turnout: 'yeah how awful, we must get around to changing the system that just handed us the mandate of heaven, we'll get right on that'

 

[A380]

I am finding the French system rather interesting - everyone getting a second stab if no one candidate gets half the votes.

But in the UK ?

Mostly I would like to see more people turning out to vote..

Contrast and compare...

They're STILL partying ... presumably BAC students awaiting their results ...



I don't regret the lack of burning cars and destroyed shops in the UK though ...

The French system does mean that you don’t have to play four dimensional chess to guess what all the other people in your ‘constituency’ are going to do. You can basically vote for who you want to win first, but then keep the Nazis out.

It’s by no means perfect, but is better than FPTP. One of the reasons the Man Frog got traction with UKIP and may again with Reform is the unfairness of vote size to seats’.

It would also mean both Labour and Tories would or could split into their natural halves.

So it all makes sense .

Will it happen?

No.

 

[Pickman's model]

So, is this the time for the Labour government (wow, does it feel good to type that) to protect our country by getting rid of FPTP once and for all?

it won't be long before you are reminded of this post and return to it to rue your optimism

there is more chance of noel edmonds becoming chancellor of the exchequer and mr blobby becoming minster of justice than there is of this government amending the voting system

although morph has already become prime minister so perhaps i shouldn't be so hasty in my judgement

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

After this election the call for proportional representation will have jumped up quite a bit. Most people are not interested in politics there's certainly not interested in which is the best voting system, 40% of people eligible to vote didn't even vote at the last election, People just don't find politics that interesting, but this result makes it clear and obvious to a certain 4 million plus people in the United Kingdom what a unfair bascally crap system FPTP is.

 

[Rimbaud]

It should happen but it won't.

I think there's a possibility of a hung parliament in future leading to a referendum on PR however, but as Labour got a comfortable majority under this system they have no incentive to change it.

 

[Pickman's model]

After this election to call for proportional representation we have jumped up quite a bit. Most people are not interested in politics there's certainly not interested in which is the best voting system, 40% of people eligible to vote didn't even vote at the last election. People just don't find politics that interesting, but this result makes it clear and obvious to a certain 4 million plus people in the United Kingdom what a unfair bascally crap system FPTP is.

perhaps you could offer some actual thought and not lazy assumption. for instance, you equate not voting with not being interested in politics. very many anarchists don't vote, for example, but it's clearly wrong to say that they aren't interested in politics. a number of posters - myself included - predicted many people would stay at home given the tawdriness of the government and the unappealing nature of the opposition. what was on offer wasn't entirely attractive.

 

[moochedit]

To avoid misinterpretation, I should love to get rid of FPTP. But I don't believe anyone will do it in the near future.

^
Yeah this

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

perhaps you could offer some actual thought and not lazy assumption. for instance, you equate not voting with not being interested in politics. very many anarchists don't vote, for example, but it's clearly wrong to say that they aren't interested in politics. a number of posters - myself included - predicted many people would stay at home given the tawdriness of the government and the unappealing nature of the opposition. what was on offer wasn't entirely attractive.

40% of the population are not anarchists, anarchist probably make up less than 0.04% of the population it's an affectation. More typical of the non-voter is my next door neighbour, who I think he has never voted in his 51 years of life, he has no interest whatsoever in politics, doesn't understand it, he's only interested in football and smoking dope.

 

[gosub]

Party who just receives landslide victory on low turnout: 'yeah how awful, we must get around to changing the system that just handed us the mandate of heaven, we'll get right on that'

+ permanently entrench Farage in Parliament.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

If they do scrap the House of Lords they'll replace it with PR just because the whole party list system would ensure that there is still a gravy train available to reward loyal hacks.

I have seen some analysis that suggests the inbuilt bias of fptp for the Tories is swinging to a bias for Labour as the population ages. If so there may be a lot of shouting about PR but whether they'll abandon the advantages of the two party system for a free-for-all that guarantees a hundred of Farage's mob as well as a similar amount of Greens and probably a few trots and the like as well remains to be seen. Depends how unpopular this government is in two years time.

I do wonder how many people would be so quick to vote for Farage's mob if they knew they would get into parliament as a result.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

+ permanently entrench Farage in Parliament.

He probably already is now.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

perhaps you could offer some actual thought and not lazy assumption. for instance, you equate not voting with not being interested in politics. very many anarchists don't vote, for example, but it's clearly wrong to say that they aren't interested in politics. a number of posters - myself included - predicted many people would stay at home given the tawdriness of the government and the unappealing nature of the opposition. what was on offer wasn't entirely attractive.

Yeah its a peculiar kind of not being interested in politics where someone votes in 2019 but not in 2024 - almost as if there is some other reason why they didn't vote.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

I would not scrap the House of Lords I would just make it better. I would make it into a House of Experts. I don't see what the point of replicating the House of Commons i.e., the same people, the same parties, it'll just be a duplication of the House of Commons no change, no improvement.

 

[rasputin]

Party who just receives landslide victory on low turnout: 'yeah how awful, we must get around to changing the system that just handed us the mandate of heaven, we'll get right on that'

If you would care to respond to what I actually said, rather than your misinterpretation of it, I'll be happy to engage with you.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Just a reminder everybody, there are 4 Gaza independents plus Jeremy Corbyn that's just as many MPS as ReformUK has.

 

[Serge Forward]

40% of the population are not anarchists, anarchist probably make up less than 0.04% of the population it's an affectation. More typical of the non-voter is my next door neighbour, who I think he has never voted in his 51 years of life, he has no interest whatsoever in politics, doesn't understand it, he's only interested in football and smoking dope.

That's fighting talk

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Not really Serge, because if someone says they are a vegetarian there is an action connected to it IE they don't eat any meat, they say they are vegan there's a action connected to it IE they don't eat any food products from animal sources eggs milk et cetera, if someone said they were a Muslim, there's actions connected with it, you go to mosque on Friday and you pray in a certain ritualised manner to Mecca and probably loads of other things, the same if you are a Catholic, you go to Mass you pray and do whatever Catholics do, send your children to Catholic school, if you say you are a anarchist what exactly do you do that is different in your lifestyle to anybody else?

 

[emanymton]

I would not scrap the House of Lords I would just make it better. I would make it into a House of Experts. I don't see what the point of replicating the House of Commons i.e., the same people, the same parties, it'll just be a duplication of the House of Commons no change, no improvement.

Who decides who is an expert? Who decides which experts?

 

[shifting gears]

Not really Serge, because if someone says they are a vegetarian there is an action connected to it IE they don't eat any meat they say they are vegan there's a action connected to it IE they don't eat any food products from animal sources eggs milk et cetera of course if someone said they were a Muslim there's actions connected with it you go to mosque on Friday and you pray in a certain ritual by his manner to Mecca and probably loads of other things the same if you are a Catholic you go to Mass you pray and do whatever Catholics do send your children to Catholic school if you say you are a anarchist what exactly do you do that is different in your lifestyle to anybody else?

We study the discipline of punctuation

 

[scifisam]

If you would care to respond to what I actually said, rather than your misinterpretation of it, I'll be happy to engage with you.

He's not saying that's what you said.

It's just true - the party that's won under FPTP isn't going to want to get rid of it. To the few people shouting about it they'll just say "we had a referendum and the people said no," which isn't true, but most people won't be arsed to argue with it.

We can talk about different potential systems anyway, because it's kinda interesting, but it's not gonna happen.

FWIW, the only party you didn't mention, the Tories, are the ones who benefitted most from FPTP this election as well as every other.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Just did. Using voice type - if you don't say the Punctuation
it doesn't put it in, so I have to go over it and cheque it afterwards and correct all the many things it's done wrong. Like writing check with a QUE.