Why the lib-dems are shit

[William of Walworth]

So, Sir Keir and Sir Edward will be battling to take the Red Wall...

In a literal sense , they won't be -- Lib Dems have zero or less than zero chance in almost all of those areas.

Labour's chances in such seats -- somewhat more than that ..... maybe ....... depending as much on how much Johnson/the Tories screw up big-style, as on Labour or Keir Starmer ....

 

[Wilf]

In a literal sense , they won't be -- Lib Dems have zero or less than zero chance in almost all of those areas.

Labour's chances in such seats -- somewhat more than that ..... maybe ....... depending as much on how much Johnson/the Tories screw up big-style, as on Labour or Keir Starmer ....

'Look, look! Here comes Sir Keir's sensible battle bus!'

 

[William of Walworth]

'Look, look! Here comes Sir Keir's sensible battle bus!'

I bet you several pints that the only person actually saying that will turn out to be you, now

 

[Wilf]

I bet you several pints that the only person actually saying that will turn out to be you, now

'Let us go into the streets so that we might touch the hem of his garment!'

 

[PTK]

So, Sir Keir and Sir Edward will be battling to take the Red Wall...

A joust! A joust between two Knights of the Realm! I hope that they sell tickets.

The Labour Battle Bus could be re-named Sir Keir's Forensic Lance.

 

[brogdale]

 

[brogdale]

Twatter also reminds me...warra cunt he is.

 

[Wilf]

View attachment 228095

Yeah, it's true, even Screaming Lord Such was a .....

Surely Lord Botham's time has come to kick this country into shape.

 

[William of Walworth]

'Let us go into the streets so that we might touch the hem of his garment!'

I'll say it in GE 2024, so long as I'm paid enough, from now, to live in comfortable retirement starting from Tuesday**

**Any promise like that won't be in advance plans for the 2020 Labour Manifesto, I predict

 

[TopCat]

Useless loathsome cunt he is.

 

[brogdale]

Who but a useless, vacuous wanker of a LD vermin collaborator could open their leadership with the Wake up and small the coffee! comment in 2020?

 

[belboid]

OK, what I meant by that is that Mason. for quite some time now, has been engaged in shameless, all-out online boosterism of the Momentum end of Labour, and generally trying to cosy up to them.
However, it's been pretty much one-way traffic. I have found Momentum members (who I campign with on various individeual issues) to be either embarrassed by his antics or simply u naware of them, like you.

He’s been an active member of momentum since it was set up, why on earth shouldn’t he mention them? What a silly post

 

[Streathamite]

He’s been an active member of momentum since it was set up, why on earth shouldn’t he mention them? What a silly post

Ahhh...I wasn't actually aware of that, mainly cos i get info about Momentum secondhand from local members. My bad. he does seem to have invested an extraordinary amount of blind faith in them.

 

[NoXion]

He’s been an active member of momentum since it was set up, why on earth shouldn’t he mention them? What a silly post

What a pity for Momentum.

 

[belboid]

What a pity for Momentum.

Still better than that shit Lansman

 

[Streathamite]

Still better than that shit Lansman

I'm intrigued. Why do you say that? i'm not necessarily disagreeing, but why do you say that? I'd be interested to hear your views

 

[belboid]

Mason is/was at least a democrat who wanted a member led organisation and open debate whereas lansman was a complete stitch up merchant from the (pro Assad and pro China) socialist action. He (lansman) stopped momentum being an activist group to being one solely concerned with elections (internal and external)

 

[Streathamite]

Mason is/was at least a democrat who wanted a member led organisation and open debate whereas lansman was a complete stitch up merchant from the (pro Assad and pro China) socialist action. He (lansman) stopped momentum being an activist group to being one solely concerned with elections (internal and external)

Yep, ta for that, useful info. Kinda chimes with bits I hear, here and there. I must admit, when Corbyn became leader and momentum started, it almost got me rejoining Labour and involved in Momentum. Now, i'm relieved I didn't.

 

[PTK]

Yep, ta for that, useful info. Kinda chimes with bits I hear, here and there. I must admit, when Corbyn became leader and momentum started, it almost got me rejoining Labour and involved in Momentum. Now, i'm relieved I didn't.

Why are you relieved that you did not get involved in Momentum and the Labour Party? I am a member of Momentum, and I always thought that it should be properly democratic, as did many other members. We could have done with the support of people like you. It is better to have fought and lost, then to have never fought at all. Momentum, for all its faults, had a very positive effect in enthusing and mobilising people. Getting involved would not have tainted your immortal socialist soul.

By the way,I had never heard before that Lansman was connected with the group known as Socialist Action, and I was not aware of Mason's attempts to democratise Momentum. I blame social media; it creates a bubble that actually excludes people. If you are not on What's App, etc., then events transpire of which you are completely unaware, but the "in crowd" (as we used to call it in the old days) assumes that everyone knows what they know.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why are you relieved that you did not get involved in Momentum and the Labour Party? I am a member of Momentum, and I always thought that it should be properly democratic, as did many other members. We could have done with the support of people like you. It is better to have fought and lost, then to have never fought at all. Momentum, for all its faults, had a very positive effect in enthusing and mobilising people. Getting involved would not have tainted your immortal socialist soul.

By the way,I had never heard before that Lansman was connected with the group known as Socialist Action, and I was not aware of Mason's attempts to democratise Momentum. I blame social media; it creates a bubble that actually excludes people. If you are not on What's App, etc., then events transpire of which you are completely unaware, but the "in crowd" (as we used to call it in the old days) assumes that everyone knows what they know.

the problem with momentum is that at the end of the day momentum was a very pro-labour party organisation and everyone knows that there is no parliamentary path to socialism. the reactionary positions the lp has assumed throughout its history means that participation in it is a waste of time for any genuine socialist.

 

[PTK]

the problem with momentum is that at the end of the day momentum was a very pro-labour party organisation and everyone knows that there is no parliamentary path to socialism. the reactionary positions the lp has assumed throughout its history means that participation in it is a waste of time for any genuine socialist.

A Labour government under Corbyn would have introduced certain reforms that would have strengthened the strategic position of the working class. Such an outcome is certainly not a waste of time.

 

[Pickman's model]

A Labour government under Corbyn would have introduced certain reforms that would have strengthened the strategic position of the working class. Such an outcome is certainly not a waste of time.

yeh where is this wondrous beast to be found? a pipe dream, like the labour party getting rid of the poll tax - when labour councils like haringey and camden enthuasiastically implemented it.

 

[andysays]

the problem with momentum is that at the end of the day momentum was a very pro-labour party organisation and everyone knows that there is no parliamentary path to socialism. the reactionary positions the lp has assumed throughout its history means that participation in it is a waste of time for any genuine socialist.

If only

 

[Pickman's model]

If only

everybody knows the boat is sinking
everybody knows that the captain lied
everybody got that sinking feeling
like their father or their dog just died

 

[PTK]

yeh where is this wondrous beast to be found? a pipe dream, like the labour party getting rid of the poll tax - when labour councils like haringey and camden enthuasiastically implemented

yeh where is this wondrous beast to be found? a pipe dream, like the labour party getting rid of the poll tax - when labour councils like haringey and camden enthuasiastically implemented it.
[/Q

yeh where is this wondrous beast to be found? a pipe dream, like the labour party getting rid of the poll tax - when labour councils like haringey and camden enthuasiastically implemented it.

Haringey Labour Party shifted to the left a few years ago, and the Council abandoned its plans to "socially cleanse" part of the borough. It also increased Council Tax relief to jobless householders. Momentum played a role in these victories.

People suffering from the cuts to social security benefits implemented by the Conservative-Liberal Democrat government would have benefited from the policies introduced by a Corbyn-led government within months. It would have abolished the draconian sanctions regime imposed on unemployed people by Job Centres, and abolished the cruel regime of Work Capability Assessments imposed upon the ill.

A Corbyn government would have repealed Tory anti-union legislation, making it easier for workers to take strike action.

The reversal of many (alas, not all) benefit cuts would have put an upward pressure on wages and increased the bargaining positions of the organised working class.

 

[PTK]

yeh where is this wondrous beast to be found? a pipe dream, like the labour party getting rid of the poll tax - when labour councils like haringey and camden enthuasiastically implemented it.

[Sorry, I messed up the posting of this, and had to re-post it].

Haringey Labour Party shifted to the left a few years ago, and the Council abandoned its plans to "socially cleanse" part of the borough. It also increased Council Tax relief to jobless householders. Momentum played a role in these victories.

People suffering from the cuts to social security benefits implemented by the Conservative-Liberal Democrat government would have benefited from the policies introduced by a Corbyn-led government within months. It would have abolished the draconian sanctions regime imposed on unemployed people by Job Centres, and abolished the cruel regime of Work Capability Assessments imposed upon the ill.

A Corbyn government would have repealed Tory anti-union legislation, making it easier for workers to take strike action.

The reversal of many (alas, not all) benefit cuts would have put an upward pressure on wages and increased the bargaining positions of the organised working class.

 

[ViolentPanda]

tbh, most Momentum members are embarrassed at Mason's continued cosying up to them. They think he's a bit of a nutter (well, the ones I've spoken to).

The only Momentum members I know, that like Mason, are a pair of former AWL members. Says it all, really!

 

[Streathamite]

The only Momentum members I know, that like Mason, are a pair of former AWL members. Says it all, really!

It very much does!

 

[BlanketAddict]

Yeah, it's true, even Screaming Lord Such was a .....

Surely Lord Botham's time has come to kick this country into shape.

Lord Botham, it just doesn't sound right. It's like Lord Coe all over again.

 

[Streathamite]

Why are you relieved that you did not get involved in Momentum and the Labour Party? I am a member of Momentum, and I always thought that it should be properly democratic, as did many other members. We could have done with the support of people like you. It is better to have fought and lost, then to have never fought at all. Momentum, for all its faults, had a very positive effect in enthusing and mobilising people. Getting involved would not have tainted your immortal socialist soul.

Because I was previously a member of the Labour party - and a serious member, activist, holder of god knows how many branch, ward, committee etc positions, even a one-time council candidate - from 1986 to 2000. And at the end of that bruising, chastening but undoubtedly educative experience, I came to one unavoidable conclusion; the parliamentary road to socialism simply does not exist. For all the terrific people and definite socialists I met through Labour (including most definitely one J Corbyn esq, my MP when I lived on crouch Hill, in the Islington North constituency, and very much an early mentor to me), it simply cannot - will not - offer that route to real, meaningful social, economic and political change.

Labour were, and are, a dead end, because their commitment to Parliamentarianism menas they will always compromise too damn much. Yes, Corbyn briefly cane close to pullng it off, but there was always simply too much stacked against him.

And under Sir Quiff, you are about to go through exactly the same sorry, disillusioning process I went through, in Labour and probably even in Momentum as well.

Deja Vu, close up? No thanks.