Why the lib-dems are shit

[elbows]

The fact is, Tim has voted consistently for LGBT+ rights. Despite any personal views (which are no one else's business).

That shows great moral principle. To defend the rights of people who think, and live, and love differently despite your own personal opinion.

And the separation of religion and state.

But that is not enough is it. You lefties have to insist that everyone, of all religions and none, must THINK the same as you.

The idea that a politicians personal views are nobody elses business is a complete joke. A great chunk of their profession involves professing to believe in certain things for a start.

It's no good simply applauding the idea of authority figures making decisions in a manner completely isolated from their personal beliefs - There are ways in which people can somewhat isolate these spheres and try to counter their own personal bias but it's imperfect and leaky and there will be areas of weakness in the wall, issues that expose the contradiction and cause a moral dilemma. He has demonstrated where his loyalty ultimately lays, and the dilemma is bound to be more acute with a party counts social liberalism as one of its core values.

I wouldnt cry for fallen lib dems at the best of times anyway but when I hear him bemoaning that the mainstream socially liberal standards of the present era are incompatible with his faith it just becomes bad comedy.

 

[bi0boy]

To be a political leader - especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 - and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible’s teaching, has felt impossible for me.

Even your Tim seems to think his personal views matter though. Unless he's talking shit in his resignation statement of course and it was just a political resignation because other Lib Dems drove him out. In which case he's a liar, which is also a sin oddly enough.

Here's basically saying there that the only good Christian is an illiberal one.

 

[Edie]

To be a political leader - especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 - and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible’s teaching, has felt impossible for me.

Even your Tim seems to think his personal views matter though. Unless he's talking shit in his resignation statement of course and it was just a political resignation because other Lib Dems drove him out. In which case he's a liar, which is also a sin oddly enough.

You are misreading what he said. He's said it has felt impossible, not that he feels it's incompatible. Your own bias has caused you to put words in his mouth.

 

[Edie]

The idea that a politicians personal views are nobody elses business is a complete joke. A great chunk of their profession involves professing to believe in certain things for a start.

It's no good simply applauding the idea of authority figures making decisions in a manner completely isolated from their personal beliefs - There are ways in which people can somewhat isolate these spheres and try to counter their own personal bias but it's imperfect and leaky and there will be areas of weakness in the wall, issues that expose the contradiction and cause a moral dilemma. He has demonstrated where his loyalty ultimately lays, and the dilemma is bound to be more acute with a party counts social liberalism as one of its core values.

I wouldnt cry for fallen lib dems at the best of times anyway but when I hear him bemoaning that the mainstream socially liberal standards of the present era are incompatible with his faith it just becomes bad comedy.

It is the very essence of liberalism.

I don't believe or approve in a lot of things. But I will protect the rights of others to believe and approve of them.

 

[butchersapron]

It is the very essence of liberalism.

I don't believe or approve in a lot of things. But I will protect the rights of others to believe and approve of them.

And to pretend not to believe in them.

 

[YouSir]

You are misreading what he said. He's said it has felt impossible, not that he feels it's incompatible. Your own bias has caused you to put words in his mouth.

Uhuh. I'm sure May calls herself a Christian, though you can question the truth of that, but it's not a bar to being politically involved, nor is it for any number of religious MPs. If he feels it's incompatible it's because he knows his own beliefs aren't acceptable to the public or his party and he's chosen his faith over his job. As DotCommunist said, it's right in its way (if true), but still shows that even by his own estimation his personal beliefs were fatally conflicting with his political position.

 

[tim]

Could posters refer to the Bible Bashing Liberal as Farron, or at least Tim Farron. Calling him "Tim" leaves me feeling confused and vulnerable.

 

[butchersapron]

Just fucking come out as a freak like him edie.

 

[elbows]

It is the very essence of liberalism.

Bad comedy, weak refereeing and dodgy hand-wringing? I quite agree.

 

[bi0boy]

Uhuh. I'm sure May calls herself a Christian, though you can question the truth of that, but it's not a bar to being politically involved, nor is it for any number of religious MPs. If he feels it's incompatible it's because he knows his own beliefs aren't acceptable to the public or his party and he's chosen his faith over his job. As DotCommunist said, it's right in its way (if true), but still shows that even by his own estimation his personal beliefs were fatally conflicting with his political position.

A pity he didn't go all the way and instigate a by-election. Perhaps he thinks he can hold to his illiberal interpretation of the bible while just being an MP.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Tim Farron voted no on Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations
A majority of MPs voted yes on Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations

Tim Farron was absent for a vote on Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill — Third Reading
A majority of MPs voted in favour of allowing same sex couples to marry.

Tim Farron was absent for a vote on Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill — Fertility treatment requires father and mother — rejected
A majority of MPs voted no on Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill — Fertility treatment requires father and mother — rejected

He has a mixed history of voting on LGB issues. He has voted for same sex marriage, he has been absent. He voted against legislation against discrimination of LGB people when it comes to services and goods.

To suggest he always voted against his beliefs is factually inaccurate. As it is, we don't know why he voted the way he did, or chose not to vote in other instances. But what we can categorically say is that he has not always voted in favour of LGB legislation. We can make inferences from that, considering what we know of his personal beliefs.

All politicians have personal beliefs. It as absolutely right and absolutely essential that we interrogate them since these are the people with ultimate power to create the laws that govern our lives.

That Farron has decided his faith and being leader of the LibDems are no longer compatible, again we can draw inferences. To suggest his personal beliefs have no bearing on his position as a politician is either wilful ignorance or incredible naivety.

 

[YouSir]

It is the very essence of liberalism.

I don't believe or approve in a lot of things. But I will protect the rights of others to believe and approve of them.

Back to the bigotry point. Believing that a group of people deserve to burn in Hell isn't the sort of belief that's just a difference of opinion, it's a red line for a lot of people. Rightly so. I disagree with almost every politician I know of, even the ones I support, that's one thing. Bigoted condemnation of whole groups though, be it through religion, racial beliefs or anything else, is something else. Homophobia isn't the same as not believing in nationalisation.

 

[Buckaroo]

You are misreading what he said. He's said it has felt impossible, not that he feels it's incompatible. Your own bias has caused you to put words in his mouth.

But he didn't resign because he's a good christian, he resigned because he's a shit politician. If he'd done better he wouldn't have resigned which makes him a cunting hypocrite as well.

 

[Edie]

Uhuh. I'm sure May calls herself a Christian, though you can question the truth of that, but it's not a bar to being politically involved, nor is it for any number of religious MPs. If he feels it's incompatible it's because he knows his own beliefs aren't acceptable to the public or his party and he's chosen his faith over his job. As DotCommunist said, it's right in its way (if true), but still shows that even by his own estimation his personal beliefs were fatally conflicting with his political position.

It is an acknowledgment that his beliefs conflict with his political position, yes. Where we differ is that you think that's a good thing, but I disagree.

 

[YouSir]

Could posters refer to the Bible Bashing Liberal as Farron, or at least Tim Farron. Calling him "Tim" leaves me feeling confused and vulnerable.

Is homosexuality a sin?

Just checking...

 

[tim]

I would agree. He did the right thing for the party. But it makes me angry that he had to.

Anyway, he's probably seen a niche for a British Christian Democratic party and is planning to join up with a few like-minded and disillusioned Tory and Labour MP's and end up leading a rather larger parliamentary party than he currently does.

 

[Edie]

Back to the bigotry point. Believing that a group of people deserve to burn in Hell isn't the sort of belief that's just a difference of opinion, it's a red line for a lot of people. Rightly so. I disagree with almost every politician I know of, even the ones I support, that's one thing. Bigoted condemnation of whole groups though, be it through religion, racial beliefs or anything else, is something else. Homophobia isn't the same as not believing in nationalisation.

You are literally making up the hell bit so I cba to read further

 

[YouSir]

It is an acknowledgment that his beliefs conflict with his political position, yes. Where we differ is that you think that's a good thing, but I disagree.

I think any Lib Dem fucking up is a good thing, brings a shine to my day, imperfect as I am.

And it's not a blanket issue of 'personal beliefs', everyone has those, it's the specific ones he's implied and I believe he has which are the problem. If he said he hated Twiglets that'd be a personal belief too, just one I wouldn't care about, wrong though it is.

 

[butchersapron]

You are literally making up the hell bit so I cba to read further

Every-time i turn on u75 now i just see you belching-grandad-sunday-moustache-stuff.

 

[Edie]

But he didn't resign because he's a good christian, he resigned because he's a shit politician. If he'd done better he wouldn't have resigned which makes him a cunting hypocrite as well.

He hasn't resigned because he's a 'good Christian'. Are you hard of thinking?

 

[YouSir]

You are literally making up the hell bit so I cba to read further

If something is a sin then the person is a sinner - where do sinners go? And if you can't be arsed to read then why bother to reply? Declaring your laziness is nothing to be proud of.

 

[Edie]

Every-time i turn on u75 now i just see you belching-grandad-sunday-moustache-stuff.

You are on a discussion thread about the Lib Dems. If you don't wanna read it, go and read something else?

 

[elbows]

You are literally making up the hell bit so I cba to read further

What a shit cop out. No wonder you find it possible to defend the beliefs of others if you sanitise them first to remove the ugly aspects.

 

[Edie]

If something is a sin then the person is a sinner - where do sinners go? And if you can't be arsed to read then why bother to reply? Declaring your laziness is nothing to be proud of.

You have no fundamental understanding of Christian belief. Go and educate yourself before commenting.

Edit: same with you elbows

 

[butchersapron]

You are on a discussion thread about the Lib Dems. If you don't wanna read it, go and read something else?

No, you're on a thread about why the lib-dems are shit. And you're doing effing great.

 

[weltweit]

His situation is almost a perfect example of cognitive dissonance, which is knowingly holding two contradictory beliefs in ones head at the same time the conflict of which are difficult to resolve.

And his dissonance reducing behaviour is to stand down as a political leader so he can continue to hold his religious beliefs without continuing conflict from his opposing political values.

 

[moochedit]

everything to do with the fact that Vince Cable and Ed Davey are now back in the HoC, and Nick Clegg's out the way. Ed Davey, of course, was an Orange Booker. Tim Farron was on the left of the party.

hoping to get back in with the Tories again if the DUP deal falls through?

oh..i forgot they have taken a principled stand on brexit so couldn't possibly do that...oh hang on...

 

[Edie]

No, you're on a thread about why the lib-dems are shit. And you're doing effing great.

Stop whining ffs.

 

[YouSir]

You have no fundamental understanding of Christian belief. Go and educate yourself before commenting.

Edit: same with you elbows

Have you just retired into insulting people now? What would your Tim say? Not very Christian of you.

 

[YouSir]

Stop whining ffs.

Hah.